Bob Lazar: Conclusions?

markrkingston1

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#61
With hindsight now that I have published some of this material, is that not Stanton Friedman, incontrovertibly, documented here, taking a sceptical stance re Lazar, whilst manifestly advocating this as his 'scientific' evaluation?

"I have often commented that I am certain there are underground bases and that I wouldn't argue that there were saucers there'.
From the bits I have read, SF seems to be saying that that is his opinion but I don't think he's claiming it to be a scientific truth; just an opinion.

Conversely, he has a poor opinion of BL and seems to have access to more material, although the letters/documentation need more through analysis to see what is (a) stated opinion without reference to evidence, (b) opinion with reference to evidence (not visible to us) and (c) opinion with reference to evidence (visible to us).

It would be handy to index and cross reference all the docs you have on this subject.
 

markrkingston1

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#63
It's far from just an opinion...?
Well, it depends on what evidence he has, surely. He doesn't quote any evidence in the letter extract in #59. All he says there is that he knows someone who knows a congressman who claims to know that there are saucers at S-4. Could be true but, as ever, we need to see the evidence and/or direct testimony (not just hearsay).
 

Comfortably Numb

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#64
Well, it depends on what evidence he has, surely. He doesn't quote any evidence in the letter extract in #59. All he says there is that he knows someone who knows a congressman who claims to know that there are saucers at S-4. Could be true but, as ever, we need to see the evidence and/or direct testimony (not just hearsay).
Mark, isn't this all, ultimately, the genesis, embedded in the media's misconstrued 'Flying Saucer' which Arnold never depicted, consequently, the copious Billy Meier 'Flying Saucer' photos, which seem to be somewhat similar to Lazar's proclaimed experience?
 

Comfortably Numb

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#65
With hindsight now that I have published some of this material, is that not Stanton Friedman, incontrovertibly, documented here, taking a sceptical stance re Lazar, whilst manifestly advocating this as his 'scientific' evaluation?

"I have often commented that I am certain there are underground bases and that I wouldn't argue that there were saucers there'.
 

sherbetbizarre

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#66
Haven't got time to read this tonight, but here's a recent Tom Mahood update-

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

I really don’t want to be writing this as I have way better things to do. I thought I happily left all this crap in my rear view mirror 20 years ago, but apparently not. Recently, I’ve noted an increasing number of visitors to the ancient Bluefire part of my website , coming from the /UFOs section of Reddit. Seems like they were looking for information on Bob Lazar.

Tracking the links back to Reddit, I was surprised to find a number of current discussions on Lazar and his veracity. Sadly, there were quite a few posts saying how they believed Lazar’s story and he was the “real deal”
https://noriohayakawa.wordpress.com...om-the-perspective-of-2018-by-tom-mahood/amp/
 

Comfortably Numb

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#69
Can't thank you enough for that... Much of it is familiar, some of it isn't.

Cheers mate.... Will get back to you soon as...
That pretty much equates with my knowledge of same, with the profound exception... what evidence therein re proclaimed particle beam experiments?
 

dr wu

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#70
Regarding Lazar again....I recall in one of Dr Vallee's books where he told about a time when he interviewed Lazar not long after Lazar had become a public figure due to his Area 51 'revelations'.
Dr Vallee said that Lazar made several statements that he knew to be untruthful and that overall he was not impressed with Lazar or his tales.
At that time in the 80's there wasn't much that Dr Vallee didn't know about when it came to 'players' in the ufo game. Lazar claimed to have stolen some element 115 from Area 51 but when asked by Vallee to see it he said he couldn't show it to him. Vallee said that such an element had such a brief half life that Lazar was lying ..of course Lazar said it was an 'alien version' of the element.
These and others lies convinced Dr Vallee that Lazar was a phony.
 

markrkingston1

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#74
Mark, isn't this all, ultimately, the genesis, embedded in the media's misconstrued 'Flying Saucer' which Arnold never depicted, consequently, the copious Billy Meier 'Flying Saucer' photos, which seem to be somewhat similar to Lazar's proclaimed experience?
The genesis of the meme of "flying saucers" is intriguing. But two things occur to me:
(1) A round/saucer shape is a valid aerodynamic shape, so flying saucers aren't such a strange idea. Who knows, maybe it's a convenient shape for 'exotic' propulsion systems too.
(2) When people refer to "saucers" (as in "they have saucers there") I don't think that one needs to take it literally. It's become something of a colloquisalism. So when Stanton Friedman's friend's alleged congressman allegedly said that there were "saucers" at S-4/Area 51, I read that as the alleged congressman saying that there were very exotic flying machines located there, which is entirely plausible (regardless of whether they might be of alien or human construction).
 

dr wu

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#81
Mr Lazar certainly seems convincing that he's telling the truth...but after watching the video above I still think he;s not telling the whole truth.
As Friedman mentioned he graduated in the bottom 3rd of his class...you simply don't get into prestigious schools with that GPA. And of course there is no record of his college allegations. And Los Alamos is a problem.
Maybe he worked at area 51...in some minor capacity as a mechanical engineer or maintenance worker...but then he was fired and has created this tale to enhance his 'fame' and or money. That makes some sense to me.
 
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gattino

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#84
Apart from a few passing references to the name i didn't know anything about Bob Lazar until today. Apart from the netflix documentary here is an in depth interview with Joe Rogan posted today.


What struck me throughout is that i found him personally totally convincing and sincere seeming. (the only time i questioned that perception was noticing each time he touched his nose or the side of his face, which are often considered as "tells" that someone is lyig in body language reading. But im hardly qualified to read too much into that). He seems to answer questions, sometimes random tangential questions, with fluidity, confidence and detail.

But one thing niggled away at me. The - to me - revelation that he's the man whose story introduced the whole area 51 back engineering captured ufos trope to the world...in 1989. Why does it bother me? Because just like the faked moon landing conspiracy theory was foreshadowed (ie inspired) by the movie Capricorn One, Lazar's account seems to be a little too close to largely forgotten scifi B movie from 1980, just a few years earlier, Hangar 18 wth Darren McGavin and Robert Vaughan. A captured flying saucer in a secret government facility, airforce scientist McGavin being roped into study the craft being kept top secret from the public...even lazar's description of being inside the craft looking around it mirrors some of the imagery in the film.

All of this would suggest that the idea of the secret government base in the desert with the captured saucers existed before Lazar's story broke. But was it born in fiction or in other people claiming to be whistle blowers? If the fiction came first it seems a might coincidence.

 

GNC

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#85
Hangar 18 claimed to be based in fact, though - indeed, I believe there's a 1970s UFO doc presented by William Shatner where he makes the same claims as seen in that 1980 film.
 

Lord Lucan

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#87
Noticed the new doc on Netflix here in Oz last night. Hope to watch it sometime over the next few days. Looks interesting.
 

gattino

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#88
One interesting aside to his re-emergence in the spotlight is the usual wiki-wars. The description of him on Wikipedia has changed 3 times in the last 24 hours that ive noticed. It initially referred to him as a buisnessman and "ufo hoaxer". Later it became "alleged hoaxer". Now, at time of writing it says "businessman who claims ..."
 

dr wu

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#89
^ As a businessman' he has had an 'interesting' past. He used to do electrical and related work for a 'brothel' in Nevada I believe and worked on 'race cars'...and years later he owned a company that allegedly had and sold nuclear material and he was investigated for illegally having said material.
Yes...just the kind of 'scientist' one would want to hire for a top secret facility working on ultra secret alien stuff.
;)
 

gattino

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#90
Yes...just the kind of 'scientist' one would want to hire for a top secret facility working on ultra secret alien stuff.
Or just the kind of things someone would drift into if they had been publically pilloried and their academic history erased? :p
 
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