Bob Lazar

Paul_Exeter

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It was originally a British case, allegedly of alien abduction, but the victims lived next door to a piece of Government property, wooded, and they occasionally saw craft taking off from there. It then occurred to me that all the disinformation, Lazar included, was intended to focus the believers' attention on Area 51. Why? Why would someone in authority refer openly to advanced tech being developed "in the desert?" Obviously because the real research was being done somewhere else. You really don't need runways thousands of feet long to test antigravity devices, do you? Wooded areas, camouflaged from satellite view and easy to secure, make more sense.
More about this British case please...!
 

eburacum

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Since gravity is such a weak force, antigravity would presumably be weak as well, assuming it is an exact mirror of gravity. So the best place to test an antigravity device would be in laboratory conditions, in a carefully selected location away from any major masses. Ideally these experiments would take place in freefall.
The Cavendish experiment might be a good model for such a experimental set up
.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment
 

charliebrown

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In a past History Channel program about Bob Lazar, Bob is explaining element 115 makes its own gravity.

Of course, this seems impossible, how can an element make gravity.

But one has to remember a humanoid 2 million older than us is just nothing compared to the age of the universe.
 

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Did you guys notice all the comments on youtube for that Bob Lazar video, they were very positive, Lazar comes across as credible and the majority believe him.
 

Carl Grove

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Did you guys notice all the comments on youtube for that Bob Lazar video, they were very positive, Lazar comes across as credible and the majority believe him.
Quite scary really. Normally nobody, but nobody, would be allowed to get within a million miles of a top secret installation such as Area 51 is said to be without an extensive period of checking and double checking every aspect of their character and background, without a known track record (and multiple publications) in advanced physics, and without undergoing searching cross examination. A guy with an unknown past, a record of shady activities, apparently impresses a famous physicist based on one brief encounter, and is then offered a job working on a project before even being given a security clearance to visit the place! The tools he is given are minimal and relatively low tech, he admits (to Vallee) that he has memory blanks and was regularly given an unknown liquid to drink, within a short period he is telling all his friends about the flying saucers tested there every night and been sacked. And people really believe what he says about unknown elements and flying saucers in hangers there, etc. The disinformers must think it their greatest success story.
 

Paul_Exeter

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Quite scary really. Normally nobody, but nobody, would be allowed to get within a million miles of a top secret installation such as Area 51 is said to be without an extensive period of checking and double checking every aspect of their character and background, without a known track record (and multiple publications) in advanced physics, and without undergoing searching cross examination. A guy with an unknown past, a record of shady activities, apparently impresses a famous physicist based on one brief encounter, and is then offered a job working on a project before even being given a security clearance to visit the place! The tools he is given are minimal and relatively low tech, he admits (to Vallee) that he has memory blanks and was regularly given an unknown liquid to drink, within a short period he is telling all his friends about the flying saucers tested there every night and been sacked. And people really believe what he says about unknown elements and flying saucers in hangers there, etc. The disinformers must think it their greatest success story.
It is ironic really as he does have a fascinating tale to tell of how he was manipulated and lured into a disinformation project, which is not something many people can claim. Just a shame he can't see it.
 

Mythopoeika

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Quite scary really. Normally nobody, but nobody, would be allowed to get within a million miles of a top secret installation such as Area 51 is said to be without an extensive period of checking and double checking every aspect of their character and background, without a known track record (and multiple publications) in advanced physics, and without undergoing searching cross examination. A guy with an unknown past, a record of shady activities, apparently impresses a famous physicist based on one brief encounter, and is then offered a job working on a project before even being given a security clearance to visit the place! The tools he is given are minimal and relatively low tech, he admits (to Vallee) that he has memory blanks and was regularly given an unknown liquid to drink, within a short period he is telling all his friends about the flying saucers tested there every night and been sacked. And people really believe what he says about unknown elements and flying saucers in hangers there, etc. The disinformers must think it their greatest success story.
Isn't there some other guy who said he worked there, and he remembered Lazar being there? Or is that other man also part of the disinfo?
 

Paul_Exeter

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This is an interesting short video with Christopher Mellon, Former Intelligence Secretary, and Joe Rogan, stating at 3:33
that Lazar did work at Los Alamos and was on the employee roster:

Yes he was there. So too were the men who installed the telephones and emptied the stage tanks.

It is a massive leap from "I was there" to "I saw half a dozen alien spacecraft in a hanger"
 

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Well gentlemen, the question was if anyone could confirm that Lazar actually did work there, and it does appear that he was there.
And whether it is Kenneth Arnold, or Mac Brazel, or Jesse Marcel, etc. it also appears that their testimonies are picked to pieces.
Personally, I don't believe everything the government chooses to tell me, Do you?
 

Coal

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"In 1990, he was convicted for his involvement in a prostitution ring and again in 2006 for selling illegal chemicals." (wiki)

Well gentlemen, the question was if anyone could confirm that Lazar actually did work there, and it does appear that he was there.
And whether it is Kenneth Arnold, or Mac Brazel, or Jesse Marcel, etc. it also appears that their testimonies are picked to pieces.
Personally, I don't believe everything the government chooses to tell me, Do you?
Well maybe...but I don't much rate the word of a drug dealer and pimp either... :)
 

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Isn't there some other guy who said he worked there, and he remembered Lazar being there? Or is that other man also part of the disinfo?
There is evidence that he worked for certain bodies, but as an outside contractor of some kind. There is a lot of conflicting evidence concerning all this.
Well gentlemen, the question was if anyone could confirm that Lazar actually did work there, and it does appear that he was there.
And whether it is Kenneth Arnold, or Mac Brazel, or Jesse Marcel, etc. it also appears that their testimonies are picked to pieces.
Personally, I don't believe everything the government chooses to tell me, Do you?
No, of course not, but in this case where disinformation is clearly a major factor, the likelihood is that he got sucked into a scheme where he was basically being used to sell the information that "alien space craft are being back engineered at Area 51." I think the truth is more likely that "we are engaged on very highly advanced antigravity research, but not at Area 51, so it helps us if thousands of UFO believers spend their nights scanning the skies over it, unaware that the really significant stuff is going on elsewhere."
 

Mythopoeika

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Well maybe...but I don't much rate the word of a drug dealer and pimp either... :)
Of course, there is the possibility that the (alleged) US government vendetta against him drove him close to bankruptcy and forced him to choose a criminal path...
 

eburacum

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I should note that most investigators take the accounts of Kenneth Arnold, Mac Brazel, and Jesse Marcel seriously, and attempt to interpret these accounts as (somewhat unreliable) recollections of reality; on the other hand, almost nothing Lazar says has any basis in fact.
 
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Coal

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Of course, there is the possibility that the (alleged) US government vendetta against him drove him close to bankruptcy and forced him to choose a criminal path...
Now you cut that out. :pipe:
 

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BOB LAZAR - EDUCATIONAL QUALIFICATION CLAIMS SOLVED?

As, in a previous life, I was once responsible for managing a University based Administrative Computer System, I recently wrote to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT):

"Central to Lazar's story, is an assertion that in either 1982, or 1983, he graduated with, "a Masters in Physics at MIT and a Masters in Electronics Technology at Cal Tech'.

As previous investigation by others, several years ago, could locate no trace of Lazar having achieved any such qualification(s), Lazar's response was that his past had been 'erased', in order to discredit his claims.

As we both appreciate, there is no such thing as a magic 'ERASE' button, which deletes all existing records, forever.

Quite simply, the information would still exist on yesterday's system backup and the day before's and so on.

Furthermore, it would entail clandestine access to the Admissions, Student Progress, Finance and Alumni computer systems, plus independent, departmental computer systems, etc.

Aside from which, paperwork will obviously have existed, especially if the outcome of a student's study resulted in a dissertation.

On 20 December, 1989, during an interview for the 'Billy Goodman Happening' radio program, Lazar avowed, "I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is magnetohydrodynamics".

Essentially, I would ideally like to definitively confirm the facts from your perspective.

Can it be determined that under no circumstances, did Lazar ever graduate with the qualification(s) alleged"?
(End)


I was duly advised:

"Thank you for contacting us about this, and I appreciate your student records insights.

No, he has no student record here at MIT, and of course it is not possible that his record has been "erased" or "top secret" or "confidential" or any other such nonsense.
(End)


I believe it is actually now possible to finally and definitively resolve this matter.

I have also located critical evidence which originates from a video presentation by Linda Moulton Howe, in which, discussing Lazar's claims, she reveals:

"When it got to the Spring of 1990, Bob Lazar and John Lear and Bill Hamilton and others of us, were talking about getting together to do something in that Las Vegas region and Bob invited me on the memorial day weekend and that's when I heard his heartfelt description of growing up.

He was adopted, he was bright, but his family didn't have enough money to send him to college.

He had students who were going to MIT and Harvard, tells me that he never claimed that he got a degree, but that he did go up and sit in on some of the classes that his friends at MIT... and that he had a deep interest in all things electrical.

That eventually, this path of learning something by going to where his friends were at school and then ending up making choices where he could put himself in a position to do electronics work..."


If these are the true facts, the repercussions are obviously profound and not only Lazar who has been complicit in this masquerade.
 

Comfortably Numb

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BOB LAZAR AND MJ-12

Way back in the early days of the internet, I was heavily involved in the then nascent bulletin boards and FIDOnet, et al.

My archives from those days are extensive.

I saved everything... and I mean everything... for future reference.

Perhaps one day, something might prove invaluable.

Although it has happened on many occasions, perhaps never to the extent I am about to reveal.

I have come across a collection of archive material, which includes some rare, early material pertaining to Robert Scott Lazar.

Including the following:

From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #13
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:00:00 GMT

New caller:
Did you have a badge when you went to work?

Lazar:
Sure did.

Caller:
Did it have any designation on it?

Lazar:
As far as what?

Caller:
What did it say?

Lazar:
It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as the MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it -- what else was on it . . .

Caller:
Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words?

Lazar:
The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an older kind or what.
(End)

Although I had come across a mention of Lazar claiming to have had 'MAJESTIC' clearance, I was unaware of its source.

Certainly, until now, I have, personally, never seen an unequivocal, direct association - 'MAJ-12' -with the bogus 'MAJESTIC-12', alias MJ-12, documents.
 

marhawkman

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also... why would that even be on the badge? Badges are typically for identifying place of business, having one implies a clearance level, but doesn't list that on the badge itself.
 

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As some of your good selves will be aware, I recently established a Facebook group, intended to effectively be a reincarnation of the 'UFO Research List' (UFORL), which I operated between 1999 - 2004 and attracted many seasoned and well-known ufolologists, resulting in some 10,000, moderated postings, hence a cordial environment, same as we experience here.

A main objective was to have a means of highlighting evidence discussed on the Forteana forums, which was resulting in significant new insights.

The epic 'Kelly-Hopkinsville' thread - which I will be contributing to again, shortly - primarily being an example.

Consequently, within a coup of months and some selective marketing, there are over 700 members, iagain ncorporating many of whom will be familiar to those with an interest in our eclectic subject.

Those who know myself from here, will be aware that whilst I especially enjoy discussions with forum members who might hold a differing view, I have frequently spoken out against the abject nonsense which pervades and yet venerated.

Which brings us back to this thread

Published yesterday on the Facebook 'UFO Research List' and reaching a wide, specific audience, was the following.

Although equally intended to be posted in this thread, that was put on hold, because of ongoing, new developments.

Therefore, this is an updated version and hopefully both self-explanatory and perhaps of interest.

JOHN LEAR AND BOB LAZAR -A CLOSE ENCOUNTER TOO FAR

The association between John Lear and Bob Lazar is well known.

It was by way of an introduction from Lear, that George Knapp became acquainted with Lazar in 1989 and subsequently publicised Lazar's extraordinary claims.

In a letter dated 13 December, 1987, to which a link is provided, Lear detailed his own outlandish claims, which Knapp had also highlighted during 1989 interviews with Lear, for Las Vegas radio station KVEG.

Lear's publication details quite specifically, the proclaimed origins of the archetypal 'grey' aliens, who had been clandestinely co-operating with the U.S. government in an information and technology exchange, until a 1979 dispute in an underground base at Dulce, New Mexico, led to conflict and mass fatalities.

Lazar equally avows a similar 1979 occurrence, this time at S-4, part of the Area 51 complex in Nevada.

Furthermore, in an early video, to which a link is attached, Lazer also provides quite specefic details, concerning origins of the entities at S-4.

Given that Lear's preposterous assertions are no more than a fabrication and with few exceptions, accepted as such, plus pre-date Lazar's alleged experiences at S-4, between December 1988 - 7 April 1989, there should not be the remotest comparison.

This is what both, respectively, have to say;

LEAR - LETTER

"The only known home of these visitors is that of the EBE's andwhich is Zeta Reticuli 1 & 2, a binary star system visible from theSouthern Hemisphere approximately 38 light years away with a spectralclass of G2, identical to our Sun".

LAZAR - VIDEO

"This technology that you have learned about thus far, was brought here by some alien beings from the Zeta Reticuli 1 & 2 star system.

These stars are located in the constallation of Reticulum, which can only be seen from the Southern Hemisphere.

Zeta Reticuli is a binary star system, which means it has 2 stars and is located approximately 30 light years from Earth.

These beings are from Reticilum 4, which is the 4th planet out from Zeta Reticuli 2"

Of all the planets, in all of the galaxies, in all of Universe, Zara's purportedly authentic aliens, coincidentally happen to live in the same neighborhood as Lear's fictitious ETs.

In another connection with the lamentable, hoaxed, MJ-12 documents and John Lear, when asked during a 1989 radio interview if he had a security badge, Lazar replied:

"It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as the MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it -- what else was on it . . .

Caller:
Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words?

Lazar:
The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an older kind or what.
(End)

One more revelation to perhaps keep in mind is that Linda Moulton Howe confirms:

"When it got to the Spring of 1990, Bob Lazar and John Lear and Bill Hamilton and others of us, were talking about getting together to do something in that Las Vegas region and Bob invited me on the memorial day weekend and that's when I heard his heartfelt description of growing up.

He was adopted, he was bright, but his family didn't have enough money to send him to college.

He had students who were going to MIT and Harvard, tells me that he never claimed that he got a degree, but that he did go up and sit in on some of the classes that his friends at MIT... and that he had a deep interest in all things electrical.

That eventually, this path of learning something by going to where his friends were at school and then ending up making choices where he could put himself in a position to do electronics work..."
(End)

As we know, there is zero existing documentation of Lazar's claimed academic credentials - a Masters in Physics from MIT and a Masters in Electronics Technology from Cal Tech.

Ad opposed to every morsel of supporting evidence vanishing from existence and thus proving his tales are true, as Lazar perpetually champions, we now have a prosaic explanation for this also.

It is consummately appreciated that belief, faith and trust in Lazar's veracity runs deep and any conclusions must he a personal judgement call.

It is all of the above facts, which are simply being highlighted to enable an accurate evaluation.

So long as we only deal in facts, there should not be an issue and no basis for objections.

This is hardly an enjoyable undertaking and guidance first saught from some friends it would impact.

Only on their advice did it proceed, for despite being most unwelcome, "enough is enough".

www.jceaston.com/John_Lear.pdf

 

marhawkman

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gotta say the comparison to Lear and Lazar is... very ... thought provoking... as is the knowledge that they knew each other and collaborated.
 

Comfortably Numb

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gotta say the comparison to Lear and Lazar is... very ... thought provoking... as is the knowledge that they knew each other and collaborated.
It runs deep.

Consider the following, from an interview with John Lear:

"So anyway, that was like in June of '88. So over the next four or five months, Gene and I and Bob exchanged information. And Bob, you know, he... There was three or four things that pushed him over from "This is totally ridiculous," to "It might be true." And one of them was, in those days we knew about a secret facility at Los Alamos called YY-II, and my information was that it was where they held aliens there. And then there was something else. But anyway, Bob found out - Yeah, there WAS YY-II. And yeah, it was WAY more classified than he could get in. And there was like three or four things.

And anyway, in November, that was when Bob decided that: Well, you know, I think I'll see if I can get a job up at Area 51. So he called Dr. Teller, who he knew from Los Alamos. And I think I was there when Bob talked to him.

And Teller said: Do you want to work out here at Lawrence Livermore with me, or there in Nevada?

And Bob said: / want to work at Groom Lake, [smiles broadly] And so Teller said: Well OK, let me get back with you.

So then, Bob had three interviews down at EG&G, and he would come up here after each interview...
(End)


Lazar's version is that he send Teller, amongst others, a copy of his resume and referenced their brief conversation, which took place before Teller's lecture at Los Alamos National Laboratory in 1982.

Teller then either telephoned Lazar, or wrote to him.

In various early interviews, Lazar gives both accounts.

The claimed three interviews, has just come up in another early interview with Lazar, I have located:

"I had met Ed Teller at Los Alamos, one day. We had a brief meeting and a talk.

I had shortly thereafter moved to Las Vegas... basically left the scientific community to do other work.

Some time later, I decided to re-enter and sent applications our to several other national labs and also one to Ed Teller... and he gave me a call and he said he might have something that I'd be interested in and suggested that I go for an interview.

Shortly thereafter, someone from EG&G called and told me to come down for an interview there.

They made it very clear that EG&G had nothing to do with it, they were just using the building as a place to do the interview.

After a short time, they said I was basically overqualified for the position, bit they may have something else in the future".

Amazing how you can be overqualified, when you do not have any of the claimed qualifications, at all.

To reiterate, it is elemental (sic!): that Linda Moulton Howe confirms, on video, that Lazar confided he had never even attended MIT and had only sneaked into some classes with friends, who had enrolled there.

More on Lazar and recent discoveries, to follow, separately.
 

Comfortably Numb

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When asked during a 1989 radio interview if he had a security badge, Lazar replied:

"It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as the MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it -- what else was on it . . .

Caller:
Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words?

Lazar:
The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an older kind or what.
(End)


I have now located further evidence, volunteered by Lazar himself, of far the Bob Lazar story and an MJ-12 connection goes.

During another early videotaped interview, Lazar explains:

My official job description was a senior staff physicist.

There were 22 people with MAJESTIC clearance.

I had MAJESTIC clearance and MAJESTIC clearance was designated 38 levels above 'Q' clearance and 'Q' clearance is the civilian top secret clearance.
(End)


How could we have a direct association to something which was entirely bogus?

Of course, at the time, Lazar was unaware, having been spoonfed the reality of MJ-12, by John Lear.
 
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