Bob Lazar

EnolaGaia

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... Area 51 was mentioned in documents from 1967 (but wouldn’t have presumably been talked about way before then) ...

'Area 51' is a label that arose to refer to that area of the Groom Basin and Nevada Test Range assigned to the USAF test facility. It was a name outsiders applied to the place, and it's still a mystery whether the name 'Area 51' was ever the official label for anything. The most likely explanation is that it is a play on 'Project 51' - the OXCART program (1960 onward) that was the second big effort at the airfield which had been upgraded in the Fifties for the U-2 program.
 

charliebrown

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Another theory is that the now dissolved Atomic Energy Commission made a grid map and assigned numbers to this grid map.
 

Aether Blue

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Escargot not you at all. I meant the general public who dismiss it but at the same time are frightened of it.
Why, I wonder?

I suspect that governments fear mass disorder if the populace were to learn that humans are utterly at the mercy of nonhuman intelligences.

As for Bob, he seems like the perfect tool for spreading disinformation. Find someone with a shady past, an overactive imagination, and a talent for convincing people. "Hire" him because of his "unique qualifications." Show him some wiz-bang stuff, none of it genuine. Release him, and watch him muddy the waters for decades.
 

dr wu

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...
As for Bob, he seems like the perfect tool for spreading disinformation. Find someone with a shady past, an overactive imagination, and a talent for convincing people. "Hire" him because of his "unique qualifications." Show him some wiz-bang stuff, none of it genuine. Release him, and watch him muddy the waters for decades.

That's one of my 'theories' on him. That he was possibly hired to work there in some menial capacity related to his 'skills' and they used him to spread disinfo. He was soon fired allegedly because he took some friends out to an area too close to area51 to watch 'alien' test flights which they probably told him about to set him up. It's a safe bet they knew he was a bad risk and that was the intention all along.
My other 'theory' is that he's simply an opportunistic hustler who may have known someone who worked there and decided to capitalize on that.
 

Mythopoeika

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I suspect that governments fear mass disorder if the populace were to learn that humans are utterly at the mercy of nonhuman intelligences.
Rather a high percentage of people either believe in the existence of aliens, or they think it is at least possible. They already know that we might be at the mercy of aliens.
 

PeteByrdie

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I suspect that governments fear mass disorder if the populace were to learn that humans are utterly at the mercy of nonhuman intelligences.

As for Bob, he seems like the perfect tool for spreading disinformation. Find someone with a shady past, an overactive imagination, and a talent for convincing people. "Hire" him because of his "unique qualifications." Show him some wiz-bang stuff, none of it genuine. Release him, and watch him muddy the waters for decades.

That's one of my 'theories' on him. That he was possibly hired to work there in some menial capacity related to his 'skills' and they used him to spread disinfo. He was soon fired allegedly because he took some friends out to an area too close to area51 to watch 'alien' test flights which they probably told him about to set him up. It's a safe bet they knew he was a bad risk and that was the intention all along.
My other 'theory' is that he's simply an opportunistic hustler who may have known someone who worked there and decided to capitalize on that.

Because of his previous press coverage on ridiculous rocket engines, his narcissist need to publicise himself, and his lack of qualifications and inability to know what he was actually seeing, Lazar was hired to unwittingly disseminate an extraterrestrial hypothesis. Obviously, we're in a constant war against beings from alternate versions of Earth. Perhaps we have been for millennia; look at Dionysus and his entourage of weird beings, rampaging across the world. No species would covet an alien planet; the chances of it being suitable would be too remote, and terraforming (xenomorphing) would clearly destroy anything that made it unique enough to waste time on. But, a world that deviated from your own only a few hundreds of thousands of years ago would be habitable by your own kind. Bob doesn't even understand the basics of quantum theory; he's proven that. The danger is nearer than he can understand; it's beyond a thin veil between our own world and that of a struggling species, perhaps another human species, which wants our world for itself.
 

Aether Blue

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Rather a high percentage of people either believe in the existence of aliens, or they think it is at least possible. They already know that we might be at the mercy of aliens.

You have a good point, but I'm not sure that the world's governments are willing to bet their continued control on how people might react to official confirmation.

I didn't want to digress too far from the thread's purpose, but my pet hypothesis about alien visitation is relevant here. Many people have the NASA model of space travel firmly in mind: humans currently send the best of the best into space.

But if a hyper-advanced civilization is mostly space-based, or in any case has access to comparatively easy-to-use space travel technology, their whole bell curve might have the means to visit earth. What if alien visitors to earth are the worst of the worst, the Beavises and Buttheads of their kind?

In this scenario, any amount of contact would quickly show that we are dealing with idiots in possession of FTL (and therefore time travel), Kardashev III power sources, and goodness knows what else. How do you break THAT kind of news to the world?

"As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods,
They kill us for their sport."
-Da Bard
 

Mythopoeika

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What if alien visitors to earth are the worst of the worst, the Beavises and Buttheads of their kind?
I think this happens from time to time, given the behaviour that has been reported.
 

charliebrown

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I have had UFO experiences, but the age old question has always been :

What would happen if the government said UFOs are real and humanoids are among us?

If they were friendly I would not care at all.
 

Mythopoeika

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What would happen if the government said UFOs are real and humanoids are among us?

If they were friendly I would not care at all.
I would definitely care about their intentions, but if they could prove they were doing no harm, I'd be fine with it.
 

PeteByrdie

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I would definitely care about their intentions, but if they could prove they were doing no harm, I'd be fine with it.
'It's a cookbook!'

I hope any aliens with secret nefarious intentions are stupid enough to bring such a book to our first meeting and then just leave it lying about...

And that their language proves so easily translated...

And that double meanings of words are the same in both languages.

That episode was dreadful!
 

Mythopoeika

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'It's a cookbook!'

I hope any aliens with secret nefarious intentions are stupid enough to bring such a book to our first meeting and then just leave it lying about...

And that their language proves so easily translated...

And that double meanings of words are the same in both languages.

That episode was dreadful!
They're only here to serve, man. Or to serve Man. Whatever.
 

charliebrown

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March 1962 “ The Twilight Zone “

Season 3 Episode 24 called “ To Serve Man “

Alien played by Richard Kiel of Jaws fame from James Bond, wanted earth to know his alien people just wanted to serve man.

The punch line at the very end is that man was the dinner food.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone !
 

Austin Popper

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I hereby give up. Lazar's real background is anything but "erased" as one can easily see from Tom Mahood's work, at least when his Otherhand.com site is available. I think it runs out of bandwidth at times. People continue to believe this fraud in spite of mountains of evidence that he's full of shit. People just wanna bleeve. It's sad, really, and I'm gong to just ignore it along with all the other bullshit in the UFO field.

For the record, in case I haven't mentioned it here, I was one of the people who were all excited by Lazar's "revelations" in '89 or whenever it was. I didn't just buy into it though, and soon the story fell apart. Oh well.

Also, I hold George Knapp responsible for the mess. I consider him irresponsible, and an extra shitty example of an "investigative journalist". He apparently couldn't be arsed to check Lazar's background before breaking his story of a lifetime. To the detriment of the field. He's still out there shamelessly pushing it too.
 

charliebrown

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Reviews of Lazar I have read agree with you Austin Popper.

I am just an outside of the box thinker of weird possibilities.
 

RustyShackleford

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I hereby give up. Lazar's real background is anything but "erased" as one can easily see from Tom Mahood's work, at least when his Otherhand.com site is available. I think it runs out of bandwidth at times. People continue to believe this fraud in spite of mountains of evidence that he's full of shit. People just wanna bleeve. It's sad, really, and I'm gong to just ignore it along with all the other bullshit in the UFO field.

For the record, in case I haven't mentioned it here, I was one of the people who were all excited by Lazar's "revelations" in '89 or whenever it was. I didn't just buy into it though, and soon the story fell apart. Oh well.

Also, I hold George Knapp responsible for the mess. I consider him irresponsible, and an extra shitty example of an "investigative journalist". He apparently couldn't be arsed to check Lazar's background before breaking his story of a lifetime. To the detriment of the field. He's still out there shamelessly pushing it too.

I'm still not sure on Lazar. There are days where I think he's just a BS artist but there's also days where I think there might be something to his story.

One of the things that appear to give his claims some credence is the test flights that he took friends to observe.

For the uninitiated, before Lazar went public with his claims, he took John Lear, Gene Huff and others, out into the Nevada desert to watch what he claimed to be test flights of top secret craft being developed at Area 51/S4. This happened on more than one occasion and, sure enough, they did witness some strange lights/craft in the vicinity of Area 51 at the time Lazar said they'd be there.

Of course, this doesn't prove that alien craft were being reverse engineered at Area 51/S4 but it's evidence that suggests Lazar had some kind of connection to Area 51. Otherwise, how else would he know about these test flights?

For those that believe Lazar is lying, I'd be interested in your take on these test flights - how do you think he knew about them?

I ask, as you may be aware of something I'm not, which in turn may go some way to help me make my own mind up about Lazar.
 

dr wu

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Well..has Lazar ever said in detail who (how about a name) told him about the time and place of these test flights? Or did they post them on the wall at work at area 51?
I have read that many people in the general area who lived there for years knew all about the base, strange lights, and of course knew peole who worked there in general jobs. I suspect the time and place of testing was known to some in the area. JANET airlines flew in there everyday and many were employed there in support positions...I bet Lazar knew some of them....and that might be his source of informatiion. People like to talk and I bet many who worked there over the years blabbed about the place to family and friends.
 

EnolaGaia

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Well..has Lazar ever said in detail who (how about a name) told him about the time and place of these test flights? Or did they post them on the wall at work at area 51?
I have read that many people in the general area who lived there for years knew all about the base, strange lights, and of course knew peole who worked there in general jobs. I suspect the time and place of testing was known to some in the area. JANET airlines flew in there everyday and many were employed there in support positions...I bet Lazar knew some of them....and that might be his source of informatiion. People like to talk and I bet many who worked there over the years blabbed about the place to family and friends.

The local folklore dates back a lot farther than the late 1980s, when Lazar moved to Las Vegas.

I agree with you that he'd have had ample opportunities to hear about 'Dreamland' / 'Area 51', even if he didn't have any connection to the place. He was a tech-oriented guy, so it wouldn't be odd for him to learn a lot from other techie guys about the place and the legends.

One thing I've always found odd about Lazar's story is that there's no mention of when and how he came to have any interest in UFOs. I suspect his story would make more sense (one way or the other) if we knew whether he'd already been interested in the subject prior to arriving in Las Vegas.
 

dr wu

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It would be interesting to know exactly when and how Lazar first went public...did he call up someone...did Knapp bump into him at the local bar..? What?
 

RustyShackleford

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Well..has Lazar ever said in detail who (how about a name) told him about the time and place of these test flights? Or did they post them on the wall at work at area 51?
I have read that many people in the general area who lived there for years knew all about the base, strange lights, and of course knew peole who worked there in general jobs. I suspect the time and place of testing was known to some in the area. JANET airlines flew in there everyday and many were employed there in support positions...I bet Lazar knew some of them....and that might be his source of informatiion. People like to talk and I bet many who worked there over the years blabbed about the place to family and friends.
It's certainly possible Lazar may have heard about the test flights from locals/Area 51 workers, but I think it's unlikely.

There are two reasons for this.

Firstly, if these test flights were an 'open secret' within certain Las Vegas communities, then I would've expected, either, someone within these communities to come forward, or, this fact to have been uncovered by journalists/researchers once Lazar went public with his claims and the public scrutiny ensued. Lazar's knowledge of these test flights is often held up as 'proof' he is telling the truth. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to assume these would've come under close scrutiny and if these test flights were known about by locals etc I would've expected this to have been uncovered/brought up and used to dismiss Lazar and his claims.

I can understand people who actually worked at Area 51 not wanting to admit they disclosed the details of the test flights because of fear for their careers. But, if we're assuming this is how Lazar knew about them, then other people who didn't work at Area 51 must've known too. Why haven't we heard anything from them in the ensuing 30 years?

Secondly, John Lear. Lear was one of the first people to start talking about Area 51. He was well connected in the aerospace industry and over the years had heard rumours about a secret facility in the Nevada Test Site. He'd also lived in Los Vegas for many years. Indeed it was Lear who broke the F117A Stealth Fighter story (and got a visit from the FBI for his troubles). I would've thought if anyone knew about test flights near Area 51 it would've been Lear...but he didn't. He relied on Lazar to show him them.

Again, in no way does this prove Lazar is the 'real deal', but, to my mind, it just demonstrates why the Lazar case isn't quite as clear cut as some sceptics would have you believe.
 

RustyShackleford

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One thing I've always found odd about Lazar's story is that there's no mention of when and how he came to have any interest in UFOs. I suspect his story would make more sense (one way or the other) if we knew whether he'd already been interested in the subject prior to arriving in Las Vegas.

Lazar did not have any interest in UFOs prior to moving to Vegas. In fact, he thought UFOs were a load of rubbish and told John Lear he was crazy for believing in them. Apparently he used to have debates with both Lear, and fellow UFO researcher Ron Regehr, about the subject before he supposedly got his job at Area 51.
 

RustyShackleford

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It would be interesting to know exactly when and how Lazar first went public...did he call up someone...did Knapp bump into him at the local bar..? What?

Lazar and John Lear were friends before Lazar got his supposed job at Area 51/S4.

Also around this time Lear was hawking his 'dark Side' UFO theories (US gov treaties with aliens/ MJ 12 etc)around and paid a trip to the TV station KLAS to see if he could get any journalists interested in reporting on this. George Knapp showed such an interest and decided to put Lear on a talk show he hosted.

At some point, Lazar told Lear about what was supposedly going on at Area 51/S4. Lear then tells Knapp, but doesn't name his source. Knapp asks Lear if he can get this mystery source on the record.

Eventually, after things start going sour for Lazar at Area 51/S4, and he starts to worry his life is in danger, Lazar agrees to be interviewed by Knapp.

The rest is history. And we're still talking about it over 30 years later.
 

Comfortably Numb

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Bob Lazar came out with terms in 1980’s like Groom Lake, Area 51, S-4, element 115, and antimatter generators that at that time was unheard off.

In the 1980’s these things were not common knowledge.

One has to to be reminded that the CIA did publicly acknowledge the existence of Area 51 until June 25, 2013.
Searching the newspaper.com archives, first mention I can find of Area 51 and Groom Lake, respectively:

Reno Gazette-Journal, 18 October 1963:

Screenshot_20201123_045246_compress63.jpg



Reno Gazette-Journal, 11 September 1980:

Screenshot_20201123_045216_compress25.jpg


So far as I'm aware, only Lazar has ever referred to S-2.

This is an interesting resource I have literally only just come across.

I note the author reiterates my own association between Lazar's tales and Billy Meier's hoax flying saucer images.

http://www.boblazardebunked.com/

See also therein an exposé in relation to Element 115.
 

GNC

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I noticed in the end credits for Russell Crowe road rage thriller Unhinged that one "Robert Lazar" was mentioned in the thankyous. Couldn't be, could it?
 

EnolaGaia

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I noticed in the end credits for Russell Crowe road rage thriller Unhinged that one "Robert Lazar" was mentioned in the thankyous. Couldn't be, could it?

The Robert Lazar associated with Unhinged is a manager for the screenwriter Carl Ellsworth.

Ellsworth’s credits include “Red Eye,” “Red Dawn,” and “The Last House on the Left.” He is represented by UTA, managers Robert Lazar and Larry Shuman, and attorney Karl Austen.

SOURCE: https://variety.com/2019/film/news/solstice-studios-unhinged-disturbia-1203168226/
 

GNC

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Ah, merci monsieur. Presumably related to "Swifty" Lazar, massively-bespectacled Hollywood agent of legend? For a moment there I thought I had uncovered a "Kubrick directed the Moon landings"-style conspiracy.
 
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