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Bradford City Stadium Fire (1985)

McAvennie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
3,998
Startling, and potentially quite horrendous, development.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/15/bradford-fire-stafford-heginbotham-martin-fletcher

It has always struck me as peculiar how little focus this has had in comparison with Hillsborough or Heysel. The silence I presumed was just the quiet dignity of the Bradford people. Could it have a more sinister source.

Would be very interested to read the full book but the implications made in the article would be devastating if there is any truth to them.
 
A lot of odd things do seem to go on in Bradford involving fires, more often these days involving old mill buildings.

You really would think someone would be checking who stands to gain from these circumstances.
 
I remember being horrified by this when it happened, but later on all I ever heard of was the Hillsborough thing about 4 years later or so. I thought I must have imagined it, but I've just seen the footage on YouTube and it's as horrible as I remember it.
 
Admittedly there are a lot of psychopaths in the world, but it's hard to puzzle out Heginbotham's motivation in this scenario when he clearly had other non-lethal financial opportunities which may or may not have involved arson. You'd think the possibility of detection, prison, and a lifetime lived in fear of retribution would be sufficient deterrent. It's one of these cases where you have to wonder if there is any point in 'justice being done' after so many years. We seem as a society to have fallen for this idea that 'closure' must be achieved in order to bring comfort to the bereaved. I'm not sure this is necessarily the case...
 
I don't think I ever heard of this case before - it probably happened when I was at sea.

But it does sound suspicious. So why didn't the insurance companies pick up on it, or H&S, or the police, or Fire brigades?
 
It is incredibly bizarre that nobody made the connection at the time, given that it seems to have been common knowledge around Bradford that the guys troubled firms had a habit of going up in flames.

It could just be someone putting two and two together and getting five. I'm wondering if there will be more to come from the Guardian this week in their serialization.

The local MP and head of the council at the time has already made a 'nothing to see here' statement claiming this new information does not warrant a review of the case and a cursory look at the main BCFC forum has the majority of folk turning on the book's author and asking for sleeping digs to be left alone.

The thought that this could have been a insurance scam gone horribly is almost too unpalatable to consider. Yet sadly not beyond the realms of possibility.
 
The past investigation of local worthies for many crimes seems to have been slapdash at the least, and I'm not saying it is any better now.
 
Some interesting points from other websites I've been following discussions on have formulated a 'What if...?' scenario, I'll try and summarise.

If we believe the implication this was an insurance job how would it be done? How would the plan have gone so wrong?

I have no idea how you commit an intelligent arson job that would get the job done while covering tracks. I assume any kind of device set to ignite a spark on a timer would have been found in the aftermath. My first thought was perhaps that a timer that was meant to go off at 3:45am had been set wrongly and went off at 3.45pm. That theory seems too outlandish but then I couldn't think of another scenario.

Perhaps there was someone tasked with starting the fire under the stand and had gone during the match to test starting a fire, to see how quickly the rubbish would catch fire and the fire caught faster than thought and spread faster. Again, I think this is probably a little far fetched. Would anyone really be that stupid, who knows. Never underestimate man's stupidity.

Through discussion and comments on other MBs the theory that seems the most plausible is that the stand would have been planned to be burnt down that night after the game. It was common knowledge that there was a build up of litter under the stand, I believe the club had been warned about it by the fire services and they were supposedly coming the day after to check that standards were being met. Thus, it was on record that there was a danger of fire in the stands. Thus, there was a ready made blame to cover questions of arson. A dropped match or cigarette during the game had smouldered under the stand and eventually a fire had started and spread.

The question someone raised elsewhere was how did it start and spread so quickly with such ferocity. It was mentioned that the chairman's other eight fires had been in places storing foam rubber, soft toys, foam cushion, plastics... all materials that would go up in flames quickly. Knowing that the ground was a fire hazard, and knowing attitudes to public smoking in the 1980s, how did the dropped cigarette theory not happen before? Maybe the wrong cigarette, fell in the wrong place at the wrong time. But surely this must have happened before at games? What could have been different on that day - if additional flammable materials had been added to the area under the stands in order to ensure a fast and devastating fire when it was deliberately started later that night were present?

This is just speculating a theory to see if the implications in the Guardian piece could believably be carried out. It does seem feasible to me. Believable? You would like to think not, but you don't need to be a complete cynic to believe the idea that a businessman might burn a property down to claim the insurance. That is a fairly well-known tactic. If you are being asked to believe it about a businessman who has had eight previous fires at failing buildings/companies? However, you would then need to ask how he was not caught. How would you get away with that without a cover up involving club officials, the police, the local council, the fire services? Is that believable? Authorities covering something up in Yorkshire?

Apparently the Guardian has another extract published today. Would they save a bigger revelation for Day 2 of their serialisation I wonder?
 
Just playing devils's advocate here; there's one paragraph here that doesn't seem to add up.

The disaster at Valley Parade came at a time, according to Fletcher’s evidence, when the businessman was in desperate financial trouble, unable to pay his workforce beyond that month. Heginbotham had learned two days before the fire it would cost £2m to bring the ground up to safety standards required by Bradford’s promotion from the old Third Division that season.

Which workforce?

If the workforce in question wasn't the staff of Bradford City FC, how would an insurance scam generating money for Bradford City FC be of any benefit to another company? That could and would only benefit the football club. It's not as if he would be in any position to pocket the dough himself, let alone use it to bail out his other firm and leave the stadium in ruins without anyone noticing. That's just absurd.

If this is a reference to Bradford City FC, then it effectively contradicts the first statement. How could they be planning for promotion the following season if they were facing bankrupcy the following month?

Maybe there's a fuller explanation in the book, but the way it appears in this article, it just doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Also, bear in mind that if it was an insurance scam, it was a successful one as no one noticed it at the time! What did actually happen to the money? Did the club get it or did it go elsewhere? Was the money used to stave of financial problems at any of Heginbotham's firms (BCFC included.) Should be easy enough to check.
 
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Thats easy - just for example:

Company A lends Company B a load of cash as they're part of the same group. Company B buys a load of stuff (at a high rate) from Company C, also part of the same group. Insurance money from Company B going up in smoke goes to pay off Company A.

Tweak and vary as necessary.

I see how that could work, but point is, did this actually happen? We're not dealing with 'what ifs' here. If this happened it should be possible to check.
 
It could be the money got them over cash flow problems, I'll confess that I don't know from shit about about how the finances of a football ground work though.

I assume any kind of device set to ignite a spark on a timer would have been found in the aftermath. My first thought was perhaps that a timer that was meant to go off at 3:45am had been set wrongly and went off at 3.45pm. That theory seems too outlandish but then I couldn't think of another scenario.

The hallmark of a really effective arson seems to be that the fire is ferocious enough to destroy the forensics.

I wouldn't rule anything out as too outlandish when we live in a world where terrorists have tried blowing up planes with explosive shoes or underwear (the latter scuppered by poor personal hygiene).
 
I see how that could work, but point is, did this actually happen? We're not dealing with 'what ifs' here. If this happened it should be possible to check.


"The rebuilding, which Tordoff oversaw, was paid for largely with public money; West Yorkshire metropolitan county council gave the club £1.4m even while it was jointly being sued for negligence. Further grants came from the Football Trust, and the club's insurance – Tordoff said they received £200,000 more than they needed.

In January 1988, Tordoff bought Heginbotham's stake in City, paying around £400,000 for the shares which had originally cost Heginbotham around £30,000. Tordoff described that as "a fair price", saying the rebuilt stadium gave the club more "balance-sheet value".

In 1990, Tordoff sold out himself, for £700,000, to a new owner, Dave Simpson. Tordoff acknowledged that was a "decent profit" but said the money all went back into the club in sponsorship from JCT600."

http://www.theguardian.com/football...ort-blog/2010/may/12/bradford-fire-david-conn
 
Surely the insurers would need proof there was a crime though? The situation may look damming but if there's insufficient evidence for a prosecution, what are they going to do?
 
I was well aware of the Bradford fire - it was on TV. But actually this is the first time I've heard of any conspiracy theory - at the time I understood it being down to accumulated rubbish in an inaccessible area under the stand.

Also, there were no allegations of crowd trouble which was the big 'selling point' for the extended media coverage of Hillsborough and Heysel.
 
I was well aware of the Bradford fire - it was on TV. But actually this is the first time I've heard of any conspiracy theory - at the time I understood it being down to accumulated rubbish in an inaccessible area under the stand.

Also, there were no allegations of crowd trouble which was the big 'selling point' for the extended media coverage of Hillsborough and Heysel.

On first look at this new evidence I really thought it was clearly an insurance job - there must have been a big crawl space under the stand, packed with flammables and all set to be lit up overnight after the game was finished which were accidentally ignited by a dropped cigarette.

However having read through the Popplewell report I came full circle again back to thinking it was just a terrible accident. The stand was built on a sloping bank so there literally was nothing under the wooden stand but a small gap for litter to accumulate and then solid earth. Would have been hard to rig something up to start a fire down there - other than some kind of device set on a timer to create a spark - and definitely no way for someone to be down there and manually start it.

The stand could have been rigged up with flammables and then accidentally started with a dropped cigarette but surely that was too stupid a risk to take, given they had been warned of the real risk of a fire from a dropped cigarette.

The evidence of previous insurance fires is very dodgy and I do think a new and full investigation needs to be held to ease concerns, but I think it will be very hard now to get accurate statements from people after all this time. The initial Popplewell report is very brief and I've identified several inconsistencies. It seemed a clear rush job. Whether for sinister reasons or not, but it does present a scenario whereby the dropped cigarette theory works. It is even possibly using the Popplewell and a report on the Bradford Telegraph & Argus from the detective who allegedly interviewed the old man who dropped the cigarette to put a name to the culprit.

However, the cop who is interviewed in that article was linked on another forum I was reading as a cop who had been involved in a case of wrongful imprisonment with implications of a forced confession.

It is certainly plausible that there was shenanigans and a well organised cover-up, but there is also a lack of hard evidence and a lack of motivation it seems from the people of Bradford to question the official verdict.
 
There's a very interesting interview with Popplewell in the Guardian today, which he comes out of looking very poor, in my opinion. Full credit to the journalist for sticking to hard questions, and for exposing basic flaws in Popplewell's knowledge of events: it transpires for instance he doesn't even recall the exact time the fire started. His refusal to accept there might be anything more to look at, his passing of the buck, his point-blank insistence that he won't even read the book, is jaw-dropping.

Taylor has brought Popplewell a copy of the book, passed on by the author

DT Did you say you had read this?

OP No, no, I wouldn’t dream of it

DT Will you be reading it?

OP No.

DT Do you not think you should do?

OP No, I don’t see any point. I’m quite satisfied we arrived at the right conclusion. This all sparks from the previous fires and I can understand that because it is highly suspicious. But the truth is, when you analyse it there is absolutely nothing to it.
etc.

I dunno, maybe I'm biased: I'm a Bradford lad. My JFK moment is that I can picture exactly where I was when I heard about the fire. I was never a big footy fan, but I was pleased "we" were going up that season. I was probably too young to hear about Heginbotham's nickname; in any event, I'm finding out about it поw for the first time. The official version doesn't exactly sound watertight to me, though.
 
Incompetent or involved in a cover-up... It is hard to tell.

There is quite clearly the need for a full review of the inquiry and if necessary a new one.

This far removed from the event though I think it would be quite hard to get reliable evidence.
 
New member here and first post so please be gentle.
I was born and brought up in bradford and a lifelong bradford city fan the fire disaster is still an open wound for many "bantams." The new book that has come out about the fire was written by a survivor of the fire who seems to believe that he has sole narrative on what happened that day. he lost 4 members( 3 generations) of his family that day and my heart goes out to him. I had family in that fire although they were lucky as they were at the opposite end of the ground from the fire.
Anyway, my issue here is with the way, without any evidence or actually making any accusations against the chairman, he makes out that it was deliberate. what he fails to mention is that the police have known the name of the man who accidentally started the fire for 30 years. The name wasn't common knowledge but only a little bit of digging would have revealed it yet the author fails to mention this in his evidence. The fire was actually a series of very unfortunate events that tragically led to the deaths of 56 people. There was no arson and nobody to blame and the author has struggled to cope with that. There is no conspiracy. It was just a tragedy. We don't need a new inquiry as all the evidence is there to be found.
let me put it like this. The author of the book was the only person to attend both the bradford city fire and the hillsborough disaster. Was he responsible for both? of course not but to claim a conspiracy about the fire to me is the same as accusing him of causing both. I know that to say he was involved is ridiculous but IMHO it is the same as saying the fire was started deliberatly
 
New member here and first post so please be gentle.
I was born and brought up in bradford and a lifelong bradford city fan the fire disaster is still an open wound for many "bantams." The new book that has come out about the fire was written by a survivor of the fire who seems to believe that he has sole narrative on what happened that day. he lost 4 members( 3 generations) of his family that day and my heart goes out to him. I had family in that fire although they were lucky as they were at the opposite end of the ground from the fire.
Anyway, my issue here is with the way, without any evidence or actually making any accusations against the chairman, he makes out that it was deliberate. what he fails to mention is that the police have known the name of the man who accidentally started the fire for 30 years. The name wasn't common knowledge but only a little bit of digging would have revealed it yet the author fails to mention this in his evidence. The fire was actually a series of very unfortunate events that tragically led to the deaths of 56 people. There was no arson and nobody to blame and the author has struggled to cope with that. There is no conspiracy. It was just a tragedy. We don't need a new inquiry as all the evidence is there to be found.
let me put it like this. The author of the book was the only person to attend both the bradford city fire and the hillsborough disaster. Was he responsible for both? of course not but to claim a conspiracy about the fire to me is the same as accusing him of causing both. I know that to say he was involved is ridiculous but IMHO it is the same as saying the fire was started deliberatly

But the author didn't have a financial interest in either of the disasters occurring. So the comparison is invalid.
 
But the author didn't have a financial interest in either of the disasters occurring. So the comparison is invalid.
That is true but the point i was trying to make was that to me that is how ridiculous the attempt to create a conspiracy around the fire is. A mill burning down in the middle of the night is completely different to a packed stadium burning down halfway through the game. especially considering that the stand was due to be demolished after said game. A stand that as far as I'm aware had the chairman's family sitting in it. IMO the author of the book has delved into tin foil hat land.
 
I've finally read Fletcher's book*. It's a very powerful read. Fletcher makes a very strong argument that Heginbotham/Bradford City simply didn't have the money to rebuild the stand (that was due to be demolished) to the necessary standards for the old second division. Fletcher heavily implies that Heginbotham wanted the fire to start during the match, so that it could be blamed on the fans, and he cites on-pitch interviews in the immediate aftermath in which the chairman claims to have seen fans in the stand letting off a flare or a smoke bomb. He dwells on the apparent contradiction in the Popplewell inquiry transcripts between claims that the stand exits were habitually locked until 20 minutes before the final whistle and witness testimony that there was only one exit that was actually locked on the day (behind which the majority of the fatalities occurred). He also highlights the unusual absence of the exit key-holders from their customary match-day positions. The clear implication is that the exits were unlocked specifically to allow the spectators to emerge unscathed.

A lot of this is an absolute eye-opener for me - as I've mentioned before, I grew up in Bradford, but fell prey to the fatalism that Fletcher bemoans, and just accepted the discarded cigarette end theory. The indecent haste with which the Popplewell inquiry was both set up and wound up is set in sharp contrast to the enquiries into the other disasters of that decade. The fact that this was the tenth fire that could be linked to Heginbotham is extraordinary. It's hard to avoid the author's conclusion that something stinks about the whole business, and that wasn't just the mystery burning plastic smell that a number of eyewitnesses, including on-duty police officers, noticed just before the fire broke out.

* In a minor coincidence that only struck me yesterday, my dad's best man and his wife came to visit us on Friday last week. It was their house that we'd been staying at on the day of the fire. On the Saturday, as our first walk post-quarantine, my daughters and I walked to the library, and I picked the book up off the sole bookshelf I had chance to peruse (I'd been too busy registering us all, while the girls were making their choices).
 
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