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Brewing: Prehistoric & Historic Development / Significance

Victory said:
But was the flavour of all ale smokey?

I knew that ale was made before Hops were used in it, and the TV show I saw about it described it as being darker, cloudy and sweet.

It traditionally had wild herbs added, known as Gruit.

Has anyone tried one of these type of ales?

https://www.craftbeer.com/craft-beer-muses/gruit-ales-beer-before-hops


P.S. The article notes that in 15th century England, Ale had herbs added, Beer had Hops added.
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It seems I was wrong and this was a problem confined to the west country of England. But I would guess that ale would have the same problem. - I was being cavalier with the definition of 'beer' but as you correctly point out, ale and beer were seen as separate categories for much of (at least british) brewing history. But they still had to dry the malt for both drinks somehow.

'In most parts of the West, their malt is so stenched with the Smoak of the Wood, with which 'tis dryed, that no Stranger can endure it, though the inhabitants, who are familiarized to it, can swallow it as the Hollanders do their thick Black Beer Brewed with Buck Wheat.'
"Directions for Brewing Malt Liquors" (1700)

Some ales were made with gruit but not all - the brewer's company of London forbade both hops and herbs in ale. There used to be a really wonderful quote in the wikipedia article on the history of beer about the perfidious foreign 'beer' supplanting good English 'ale' and causing all sorts of problems (such as 'big bellyes'), but it seems to have been edited out. I will post it if I find it.

EDIT: please forgive any inaccuracies in this post, I'm enjoying the cultural history of European beer in a hands-on way right now
 
James_H said:
It seems I was wrong and this was a problem confined to the west country of England. But I would guess that ale would have the same problem. - I was being cavalier with the definition of 'beer' but as you correctly point out, ale and beer were seen as separate categories for much of (at least british) brewing history. But they still had to dry the malt for both drinks somehow.

'In most parts of the West, their malt is so stenched with the Smoak of the Wood, with which 'tis dryed, that no Stranger can endure it, though the inhabitants, who are familiarized to it, can swallow it as the Hollanders do their thick Black Beer Brewed with Buck Wheat.'
"Directions for Brewing Malt Liquors" (1700)

Some ales were made with gruit but not all - the brewer's company of London forbade both hops and herbs in ale. There used to be a really wonderful quote in the wikipedia article on the history of beer about the perfidious foreign 'beer' supplanting good English 'ale' and causing all sorts of problems (such as 'big bellyes'), but it seems to have been edited out. I will post it if I find it.

EDIT: please forgive any inaccuracies in this post, I'm enjoying the cultural history of European beer in a hands-on way right now
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l just looked up gruit, and discovered to my delight that l’ve tried and enjoyed at least one gruit beer: Fraoch, which my wife and l sampled in Fort William after completing the West Highland Way.

Recommended.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
l just looked up gruit, and discovered to my delight that l’ve tried and enjoyed at least one gruit beer: Fraoch, which my wife and l sampled in Fort William after completing the West Highland Way.

Recommended.

maximus otter
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Scotland has a lot of gruit beer going on these days, often using heather as an ingredient. Would be worth seeking out more. Interestingly in the USA, pine needles are sometimes used in lieu of hops - I'd like to try a beer like that someday.
 
gruit.png
 
Lager lovers will appreciate this.

If you like lager, chances are you’ve got a 17th century brewmaster to thank for it.

The commercial yeast used to brew most modern lagers was created when the pasty yeast slurries for a white ale and a brown beer mixed in a cellar of the original Munich Hofbräuhaus—not to be confused with the beer hall there today—sometime between 1602 and 1615, according to a new synthesis of historical brewing records and genetic histories of yeast.

Today lager accounts for 90% of all beer sold; ales, made with different yeasts, make up the rest. Nonetheless, the origin of lager has been “shrouded in mystery for many years,” says yeast biotechnologist John Morrisey of University College Cork. The Hofbräuhaus scenario is “definitely plausible,” says evolutionary biologist Brigida Gallone of Naturalis Biodiversity Center, who was co-author of a key genetics study.

Although 17th century brewmasters didn’t know about the existence of yeast, they did notice the new blend was a winner—it fermented vigorously like an ale but tolerated colder temperatures, like a brown beer. This meant they could brew a clean-tasting lager earlier in the spring in the Northern Hemisphere, where temperatures plummeted during the Little Ice Age, from about 1300 to 1850 C.E. Eventually, one yeasty starter from the new brew was taken by stagecoach to Copenhagen, Denmark. There, in 1883, Emil Christian Hansen, a mycologist at the Carlsberg Research Laboratory, purified this hybrid yeast, named Saccharomyces pastorianus in honor of the French chemist Louis Pasteur.

https://www.science.org/content/article/modern-lager-arose-when-beer-and-ale-met-munich-brewhouse
 
Here's a sound recording of this event.

Slainte: Would You Drink a Beer from 1574? - Trinity Arts & Humanities Research Festival​

TLRHub​


Recorded Friday, September 29th 2023 as part of the Trinity Arts & Humanities Research Festival 2023.

In September 2021, after several years of preparation, the FoodCult team recreated a beer last brewed in the sixteenth century. In Ireland and across early modern Europe, beer was central to social life and a vital source of nutrition. But up to now, we have had little sense of what that beer was like, how strong it really was, and how much energy it provided. By reconstructing the recipes, equipment, and techniques used at Dublin Castle four hundred years ago, the team set out to answer these important questions.

Undertaking this project was an immense interdisciplinary effort, bringing together historians, archaeologists, scientists, craftspeople, and also storytellers and creative audiovisual artists. Each step of the journey was documented by a film crew who followed the adventure through archives, fields, kitchens and laboratories, capturing the rich atmospheric sound and visuals sights of the experiment.

Drunk? Adventures in Sixteenth-Century Brewing, was followed by a discussion with renowned food and drinks historian, Marc Meltonville, and Prof Susan Flavin, the FoodCult project leader. The event is also features an opportunity to hear from Maurice Deasy, a brewer who is working to bring heritage skills and ingredients to the modern brewing industry, and to taste some of the beers produced by Canvas Brewery using heritage Irish grains. Chaired by Prof Ruth Burton, School of Creative Arts.

This film is an output of the FoodCult Project (Grant Agreement 803486), funded by the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union’s Horizon 2020 Research and Innovation Programme. For more information, visit: foodcult.eu/

https://soundcloud.com/tlrhub%2Fslainte-would-you-drink-a-beer-from-1574
 
In a word - Yes.

Oh, and Maximus Otter? Quite a while back I discovered Fraoch in Sainsbury's when they were trying out sales of 'unusual beers'. Loved the stuff!
 
Stormkhan said:
In a word - Yes.

Oh, and Maximus Otter? Quite a while back I discovered Fraoch in Sainsbury's when they were trying out sales of 'unusual beers'. Loved the stuff!
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Beer. . . yuck. :p
 
My regard was once likened to a scene in the film Willow. The team were - reluctantly - accompanied by a Celtic-style of 'wee folk'. In the scene, Willow was trying to help the quest when one 'wee folk' fell into a bucket of ale.
*Splutter, splutter*
Makes it to the edge of the bucket. "Hmmm? BEER!" and throws himself back in.
A group of us who was watching all looked at me, pointed and shouted "BEER!"
So, I'm a Celt. Get over it! ;)
 
Stormkhan said:
My regard was once likened to a scene in the film Willow. The team were - reluctantly - accompanied by a Celtic-style of 'wee folk'. In the scene, Willow was trying to help the quest when one 'wee folk' fell into a bucket of ale.
*Splutter, splutter*
Makes it to the edge of the bucket. "Hmmm? BEER!" and throws himself back in.
A group of us who was watching all looked at me, pointed and shouted "BEER!"
So, I'm a Celt. Get over it! ;)
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So am I! "Still can't stand beer though." :)
 
Craft Beer, perhaps. *boke*
You can tell the difference between real ale and craft beer:
Real ale comes in bottles and can vary in strength. Craft beer comes in brightly-coloured tins and is always high strength.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Beer can taste like earwax. Am I the only one who thinks this?
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Yes Mytho, yes you are.

Mind you, my Grandads home brew was damn vile stuff. Not ear wax though, more like turpentine.
Actually, I'll bet turpentine cures ear wax problems.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Beer can taste like earwax. Am I the only one who thinks this?
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Probably. Never having eaten earwax I'll take your word for it. When was the last time you ate earwax as a matter of interest?
 
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