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I wondered where all that aid money was going.ted_bloody_maul said:...
I'll believe we're a police state when we have as many CCTV cameras as Zimbabwe or Burma.
I wondered where all that aid money was going.ted_bloody_maul said:...
I'll believe we're a police state when we have as many CCTV cameras as Zimbabwe or Burma.
lupinwick said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:I wondered where all that aid money was going.
Dr_Baltar said:lupinwick said:
If we truly lived in a facist police state, none of this information would be available to you and NGOs like Privacy International would have been crushed before they even got going.
lupinwick said:...not that I claimed it was a fascist police state.
I'm with Pietro in that the UK is becoming a surveillance state.
Dr_Baltar said:Perhaps. Surveillance isn't automatically a bad thing however. I know I'm stating the patently obvious here, but it does depend on who controls the surveillance and for what purpose. We keep hearing how there are more CCTV cameras pointed at us than in any other country in the world (and some even more outrageous claims). What we don't hear is precisely how many of these cameras are privately-owned, fixed-position cameras pointed at, for example, a car park in order to discourage crime. There's surveillance and there's "surveillance".
Nearly 10 years later, when the Joseph Rowntree Foundation launched its own consultation into modern "social evils", growing fear and distrust emerged as one of the most disturbing trends. But rather than pressing the case for more security and punitive zero tolerance solutions, the evidence points to the fact that this approach is part of the problem, rather than the solution.
With 4.2m CCTV cameras - more than in the whole of Europe put together - Britain is the most watched society in the world, and new technologies - such as Drones or UAVs, the unmanned spyplanes used in Iraq - are set to come on stream. This is the architecture of fear and, unsurprisingly, it doesn't make people feel safer.
It may actually increase crime as well, according to research published by the Scottish Office, which found that although the public had welcomed the introduction of CCTV, believing it would make them feel safer, there was no improvement in feelings of safety after it was installed, and crime in fact went up in the area studied. The report concluded that "the electronic eye on the street" undermines the "natural surveillance" of individuals by each other and represents a retreat from "collective and individual responsibility to self interest and a culture of fear".
jimv1 said:One of the conclusions reached is that greater implementation of cameras have created a climate of fear in this country.
The report concluded that "the electronic eye on the street" undermines the "natural surveillance" of individuals by each other and represents a retreat from "collective and individual responsibility to self interest and a culture of fear".
Furthermore, while concentrating on technology to catch criminals after the event, how many millions could have been put into more effective programmes that stop criminals from committing crimes in the first place?
lupinwick said:Can we trust the government not to fuck it up? Will the data be safe?
Teenage bomb plot accused cleared
Two teenagers who were accused of discussing a plot to blow up British National Party (BNP) members have been cleared of terror charges.
Waris Ali, 18, from Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, was found not guilty of three counts of possession of an article for a terrorist purpose.
His school friend Dabeer Hussain, 18, was acquitted of one count of the same charge at Leeds Crown Court.
After the 13-day trial Mr Ali said he was "extremely relieved".
Friends and family of the two men hugged in the public gallery as the jury returned their verdicts after deliberating for two and a half hours.
During the trial, the court heard that the two men had discussed a plan to spy on and blow up members of the BNP.
They were both accused of possessing a terrorist manual on their computers, called the Anarchists' Cookbook, and researching bomb-making techniques from "recipes" on the internet.
Mr Ali, of Dearnley Street, Dewsbury, was also accused of buying and storing significant amounts of potassium nitrate and calcium chloride, chemicals which can be used in the preparation of a bomb.
But the teenager said he was a "prankster" who was interested in experimenting with fireworks and making smoke bombs.
Teenage chat
Mr Hussain, of Clarkson Street, Dewsbury, said he had been sent a copy of the Anarchists' Cookbook but had not read it and was not interested in politics.
Speaking outside the court after the verdicts, Mr Ali said he was "extremely relieved" that he had been cleared of the charges but was angry about how he had been treated.
"I believe that if I was not from a Muslim background, I would not have been prosecuted," he said.
"I have had to live in fear of being branded a terrorist.
"I feel it was completely obvious once the police looked up the evidence that I had nothing to do with terrorism at all.
"Silly teenage chat and things I said at school were taken out of context and presented as if it was evidence that I was an extremist."
I think it's kind of cool that we have strong legislation against discrimination ....dougiedonnelly said:While its not a police state right now,I believe we are heading in that direction.Its true that you wont be shot for uttering the "poof" word or the "nigger" word-YET,but it can lose you your job,or land you in court charged with hate crime and whatever else.The seeds are being sown in my opinion.....a police state cant be set up overnight,it takes a decade or so,and unless things are changed it most likely will happen.
dougiedonnelly said:While its not a police state right now,I believe we are heading in that direction.Its true that you wont be shot for uttering the "poof" word or the "nigger" word-YET,but it can lose you your job,or land you in court charged with hate crime and whatever else.The seeds are being sown in my opinion.....a police state cant be set up overnight,it takes a decade or so,and unless things are changed it most likely will happen.
gncxx said:That said, I've never heard of a police state that forced its citizens to be nicer to each other.
ted_bloody_maul said:gncxx said:That said, I've never heard of a police state that forced its citizens to be nicer to each other.
Maybe we should have a separate thread - Britain: Polite State?
Jolly decent of you to suggest that, if I may say so.ted_bloody_maul said:Maybe we should have a separate thread - Britain: Polite State?
Conman 'deserved' prison attack
A bogus workman who was beaten up in prison has been told "you deserve anything you receive" by a sheriff.
Eddie Newlands, 37, from Perth, was sent to jail for 10 months on Thursday after conning a 91-year-old woman out of £5,500 of her savings.
Perth Sheriff Court heard he had been "significantly assaulted" twice in custody by inmates angry at his crime.
Sheriff Margaret Gimblett said she had no sympathy and described what he had done to the pensioner as "despicable."
Newlands and another man had carried out "repairs" to Mary Hogg's house in Auchterarder between 18 and 22 July.
Afterwards, they told her they needed £5,500 in cash and made her go to the bank to withdraw the money.
You deserve anything you receive while in prison
Sheriff Margaret Gimblett
The pensioner's family called the police after hearing what had happened. They were told that the wrong spray had been used on the roof and that it would cost more than £4,000 to fix.
When officers came to question Newlands at his home on 1 October, he pulled out a knife and threatened to attack them.
Newlands' solicitor John McLaughlin said: "He has been significantly assaulted in prison on two separate occasions.
"This is the type of crime which is not looked upon favourably in custody and he realises he will have an exceptionally difficult time during his period in custody."
While passing sentence, Sheriff Gimblett replied: "You deserve anything you receive while in prison. What you did to this old lady was despicable."
I think the idea, that prison is a place where some prisoners can decide on the further punishment of their fellow inmates, is deeply wrong.Ronson8 said:I think the treatment received in prison was wholly justified, whether it should have been voiced by a sheriff is another matter.
Wow! Any personal thoughts on this one, Maximus?maximus_otter said:Police to use handheld fingerprint scanners in the street
Every police force is to be issued handheld fingerprint scanners that will allow officers to carry out identity checks on people in the street.
The scheme, called Project Midas, will transform the speed of criminal investigations, according to the police.
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/3265229/Police-to-use-handheld-fingerprint-scanners-in-the-street.html
maximus otter
Pietro_Mercurios said:Wow! Any personal thoughts on this one, Maximus?
waitew said:"I'll believe we're a police state when we have as many CCTV cameras as Zimbabwe or Burma." Quote..by tea_bloody_maul.
Are you suggesting the UK has fewer CCD cameras than either Zimbabwe or Burma?I'd like to see your evidence for that.Can you produce it? Even if you can, are you content to be in the top 3? (and number ONE in terms of CCD cameras per square mile/per person?!) You see for a country that continually claims to be 'free' to even be in the top three is Bad! So,I guess your position is that unless you are the VERY WORST you are NOT a police state,BUT by that definition then there are NO POLICE STATES at all in this world! ( because you'll have MORE cameras by than the VERY WORST TODAY in a very short time & you know it!) If you claim to BE SO FREE why not compare yourself to the very BEST & then show how you are better? But I guess under the circumstances (ie..the TRUTH) it'd be obvious what you're country is! A POLICE STATE! Orwell called it (60 years ago..you had warning!) you let it happen! and in sheer Darwinian fashion you deserve it!Orwell & Darwin were both Britons.So, I guess it evens out!
dougiedonnelly said:While its not a police state right now,I believe we are heading in that direction.Its true that you wont be shot for uttering the " the "n-" word-YET,but it can lose you your job,or land you in court charged with hate crime and whatever else.
For the record the UK is ranked 23rd in terms of press freedom worldwide. Hardly the hallmark of a police state, is it?