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British Bigfoot?

Oh ta. For a while there I thought I might have wandered by accident into the CSICOP forum.
 
GNC said:
You know that feeling of balancing on the back legs of a chair, just about to tip backwards or forwards? That's the Fortean point of view.
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I like to swing too!
 
I don't wish to sidetrack this thread but this reminds of a 'psychic' on an early Most Haunted being asked if she believed in the paranormal. She replied "sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. To be honest I swing both ways" to be greeted with stifled guffaws from the presenter.
 
bloop said:
There are a few groups on facebook that relate to Bigfoot in the Uk. British Bigfoot Research (UK wildman sightings and invertigation) and Uk Bigfoot Research are just two of them, if anyone is interested.
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Much in the way of reported cases through either?
 
I came to this thread intending to mention the Cannock Chase sightings but I see that example is already linked to the map upthread.

A tall shaggy humanoid, taller than a normal man, slightly shapeless, and with a dark coat could easily be a Border morris dancer glimpsed on his or her way home from the pub. Some some wear black, some wear dark colours. (Some wear bright colours, and somewhere over the rainbow...) Often border dances have top hats with the outlines disguised with pheasants feathers, and usually but not always they disguise their faces with black face paint. In full regalia, a border dancer can appear to be a foot or 18 inches taller than in their day to day clothes, bulkier, and with a less obvious profile.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/346566133803346624

Could a large cryptid exist in our crowded island? I know there are wild deer near to where I live now, but I have only ever seen them in the open once. I know there are wallabies wild in Derbyshire but I have never seen them. I have never yet seen the wild boar in the Forest of Dean despite several visits and walks in the wood. A more intelligent (human like) species may be better at avoiding detection completely.

Most people spend most of their time in the cities and see less of the wild than I do.

However, the absence of sightings, the absence of remains, the absence of evidence of them hunting or foraging, and the maths of how many would be needed for a breeding population makes it seem unlikely that a large ape like cryptid exists in the UK. Not impossible, but unlikely.

As for the "interdimensional being" concept: until there is at least a credible hypothesis for how that might work, I'd say not that it is "disproven" but that there are no grounds for believing it.
 
CuriousIdent said:
Much in the way of reported cases through either?
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Not really that i have seen but I must confess to not mooching through the posts much. I am aware that on one of the groups ( it may be another that I havent mentioned above) there is much mentioning/pictures of broken branches/leant over trees etc that are said to be very similar in nature to those found around more distant parts where these creatures/beings are believed to have been sighted. There is a lady called Deborah Hatswell who seems to be well recommended with regards this topic, in fact I thing the uk wildman group above is actually hers.
 
In contradiction to what you may think, a cursory look at Deborah Hatswell’s YouTube page reveals that witnesses to Bigfoot type beings in the UK are actually prolific.
 
stuneville said:
As I've said time and again regarding the phenomenon as a whole: whatever its nature, people - smart, experienced, sober people - are seeing something. Whatever it is, or whether its a dozen different things that all manifest similarly (a theory I'm currently working on), it's happening often and consistently enough to warrant proper investigation.
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Sounds very similar to Amyasleigh's thoughts on the matter.
 
Polidori said:
In contradiction to what you may think, a cursory look at Deborah Hatswell’s YouTube page reveals that witnesses to Bigfoot type beings in the UK are actually prolific.
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Thank you for that. I was aware she is a recommended source of information, but as I said I haven't really been through posts on the groups as such.
 
Mikefule said:
I came to this thread intending to mention the Cannock Chase sightings but I see that example is already linked to the map upthread.

A tall shaggy humanoid, taller than a normal man, slightly shapeless, and with a dark coat could easily be a Border morris dancer glimpsed on his or her way home from the pub. Some some wear black, some wear dark colours. (Some wear bright colours, and somewhere over the rainbow...) Often border dances have top hats with the outlines disguised with pheasants feathers, and usually but not always they disguise their faces with black face paint. In full regalia, a border dancer can appear to be a foot or 18 inches taller than in their day to day clothes, bulkier, and with a less obvious profile.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/346566133803346624

Could a large cryptid exist in our crowded island? I know there are wild deer near to where I live now, but I have only ever seen them in the open once. I know there are wallabies wild in Derbyshire but I have never seen them. I have never yet seen the wild boar in the Forest of Dean despite several visits and walks in the wood. A more intelligent (human like) species may be better at avoiding detection completely.

Most people spend most of their time in the cities and see less of the wild than I do.

However, the absence of sightings, the absence of remains, the absence of evidence of them hunting or foraging, and the maths of how many would be needed for a breeding population makes it seem unlikely that a large ape like cryptid exists in the UK. Not impossible, but unlikely.

As for the "interdimensional being" concept: until there is at least a credible hypothesis for how that might work, I'd say not that it is "disproven" but that there are no grounds for believing it.
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I could imagine one running around at Balmoral Mikefule but I can't imagine James Hewit owning up to it ..
 
Deborah's integrity shines through her work, and her own personal, life-changing hairy hominid encounter in Salford, Greater Manchester, of all places is utterly fascinating.
 
David Plankton said:
Here's a link to a google map of clickable UK reports -

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1s1zOmmdM216PMftPUM9K1qqGrFg&ll=52.12507860202007,-1.8396613158935224&z=8

Not just Bigfoot but werewolves, Black Dogs and a couple of Owlmen.
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That map is fantastic- what a great resource!

Very up to date too as one of the sightings I looked at mentioned the current lockdown.

I don't know if the compiler is a member here, but if she is, thanks and congratulations on such a great repository of info!
 
AlchoPwn said:
I was quite taken with this item from Bob Gymlan's youtube channel about Squatches:
Relating not so much to sight as to sound, but possibly relevant.
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Yes, it might well be, in some cases certainly.
Mythopoeika said:
I don't think Britain has big enough forests or wild areas to support a population of anomalous giant apes.
It's just not credible.
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This is a major stumbling block in the purely flesh and blood theory.
stu neville said:
As I've said time and again regarding the phenomenon as a whole: whatever its nature, people - smart, experienced, sober people - are seeing something. Whatever it is, or whether its a dozen different things that all manifest similarly (a theory I'm currently working on)...
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..and I still am, but it's progressed a bit, now.
bloop said:
There is a lady called Deborah Hatswell who seems to be well recommended with regards this topic, in fact I thing the uk wildman group above is actually hers.
Click to expand...
Polidori said:
In contradiction to what you may think, a cursory look at Deborah Hatswell’s YouTube page reveals that witnesses to Bigfoot type beings in the UK are actually prolific.
Click to expand...
A note of caution: the British Bigfoot groups - often as not entirely sincere - do share the same enthusiasm as many other paranormal groups, and tend to lean seriously towards the pure uncritical belief. Now, I'll restate what I said above: whatever its nature, people - smart, experienced, sober people - are seeing something. Whatever it is, or whether its a dozen different things that all manifest similarly it's happening often and consistently enough to warrant proper investigation. I make this point as I've engaged with a number of such groups, and sadly anyone who questions is often as not banished. Facebook is a particularly polarised battleground, and just recently there was someone asking all the right questions (respectfully, and much in the manner we would here) who was almost immediately dive-bombed from several directions for daring to doubt the accounts: point is, he wasn't. He was trying to establish context and eliminate alternatives, and on speaking to him separately he spends most of his time in remote areas and teaches outdoor pursuits. He made one or two eminently sensible observations on thread, and then was suddenly accused of being from the security services (yes, really) and promptly banned. This thing's taken on a UFO-like fervency among its proponents, and they will only accept the one explanation. Many are not only not interested in alternatives, they're actively hostile towards them.

The map, as a resource, is very useful. But like any paranormal gazetteer, treat it as reported sightings with a whole gamut of quality rather than every single one a William Roe-standard sighting.
 
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@stu neville

Good post.

What is your theory that has progressed, are you happy to expand on this? I would be keen to hear.

Bigfoot has long been my favourite fortean topic. I still cling to the remote possibility that an as yet undocumented species of ape like animal exists across the North American continent, mainly driven by a few select reports by a few select people I have read or heard over the years. Could such an ape like creature, if it exists at all, be in the UK too? No, absolutely no way in my opinion.

Unfortunately, many groups on many topics, particularly on FB it seems, do quickly turn into cults.
 
monkeyfudger said:
Good post.
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Thank you, I thought so.
monkeyfudger said:
What is your theory that has progressed, are you happy to expand on this? I would be keen to hear.
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I'm writing it up for the mag at the mo, but in nutshell (and it's not especially new, just a new angle on it) that there are multiple causes that can all manifest similarly but subjectively. A part of it is expectation, eg if people are told an hotel is haunted, more people will report weird happenings and sightings than if they're not told: if it's a specific room the effect is concentrated, etc, conformation bias plays into it, etc. Which, onmce more, isn't seeking to explain anything away but rather to explore multiple potential factors. Single, blanket explanations for an entire category of phenomena are never satisfactory.
monkeyfudger said:
Unfortunately, many groups on many topics, particularly on FB it seems, do quickly turn into cults.
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Oh, don't they just.
 
^ There should be a smiley face next to your quote, I don't know why it disappeared...
 
stu neville said:
Yes, it might well be, in some cases certainly.
This is a major stumbling block in the purely flesh and blood theory.
..and I still am, but it's progressed a bit, now.


A note of caution: the British Bigfoot groups - often as not entirely sincere - do share the same enthusiasm as many other paranormal groups, and tend to lean seriously towards the pure uncritical belief. Now, I'll restate what I said above: whatever its nature, people - smart, experienced, sober people - are seeing something. Whatever it is, or whether its a dozen different things that all manifest similarly it's happening often and consistently enough to warrant proper investigation. I make this point as I've engaged with a number of such groups, and sadly anyone who questions is often as not banished. Facebook is a particularly polarised battleground, and just recently there was someone asking all the right questions (respectfully, and much in the manner we would here) who was almost immediately dive-bombed from several directions for daring to doubt the accounts: point is, he wasn't. He was trying to establish context and eliminate alternatives, and on speaking to him separately he spends most of his time in remote areas and teaches outdoor pursuits. He made one or two eminently sensible observations on thread, and then was suddenly accused of being from the security services (yes, really) and promptly banned. This thing's taken on a UFO-like fervency among its proponents, and they will only accept the one explanation. Many are not only not interested in alternatives, they're actively hostile towards them.

The map, as a resource, is very useful. But like any paranormal gazetteer, treat it as reported sightings with a whole gamut of quality rather than every single one a William Roe-standard sighting.
Click to expand...

I think that part of the problem is that anyone seeing anything anomalous is very sure of what they've seen. So anyone coming in to say 'had you thought it might have been....' well, anything, from a misperception to a shadow, is basically reading it as them being called a liar. This is usually far from the case, and, on fora like this, where people are used to taking everything into consideration, then it's met with reasoned debate. In other circumstances though, such as groups where everyone is uncritical, any kind of rationality is akin to calling the entire group liars and self-deceivers, as far as they are concerned.

See also UFO groups, ghost hunters, telepathy, empaths, practically anything where some groups get very...single minded, shall we say?
 
catseye said:
I think that part of the problem is that anyone seeing anything anomalous is very sure of what they've seen. So anyone coming in to say 'had you thought it might have been....' well, anything, from a misperception to a shadow, is basically reading it as them being called a liar.
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Precisely so.
catseye said:
This is usually far from the case, and, on fora like this, where people are used to taking everything into consideration, then it's met with reasoned debate.
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Usually. There's a fair few IHTMs where people have related what they perceived as high strangeness, we've politely proferred reasonable explanations, and they've gone off on one. Often though, you're right people are happy to engage, and sometimes we really can't find any alternative explanation, and that's of course fine too. Each case on its own merit, always.
 
I’ve idly speculated here a few times that many of the phenomena we call supernatural entities, Bigfoot, Fairies, Monsters, Ghosts etc are possibly one type of thing that doesn’t know what to BE yet until the witness imprints a form upon it. Whether this is a pan-dimensional thing or just a localised electromagnetic anomaly causing a paranoid brain fugue would go towards providing a unifying theory for a lot of things we consider ‘Fortean’.
 
stu neville said:
Yes, it might well be, in some cases certainly.
This is a major stumbling block in the purely flesh and blood theory.
..and I still am, but it's progressed a bit, now.


A note of caution: the British Bigfoot groups - often as not entirely sincere - do share the same enthusiasm as many other paranormal groups, and tend to lean seriously towards the pure uncritical belief. Now, I'll restate what I said above: whatever its nature, people - smart, experienced, sober people - are seeing something. Whatever it is, or whether its a dozen different things that all manifest similarly it's happening often and consistently enough to warrant proper investigation. I make this point as I've engaged with a number of such groups, and sadly anyone who questions is often as not banished. Facebook is a particularly polarised battleground, and just recently there was someone asking all the right questions (respectfully, and much in the manner we would here) who was almost immediately dive-bombed from several directions for daring to doubt the accounts: point is, he wasn't. He was trying to establish context and eliminate alternatives, and on speaking to him separately he spends most of his time in remote areas and teaches outdoor pursuits. He made one or two eminently sensible observations on thread, and then was suddenly accused of being from the security services (yes, really) and promptly banned. This thing's taken on a UFO-like fervency among its proponents, and they will only accept the one explanation. Many are not only not interested in alternatives, they're actively hostile towards them.

The map, as a resource, is very useful. But like any paranormal gazetteer, treat it as reported sightings with a whole gamut of quality rather than every single one a William Roe-standard sighting.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel too. People are seeing bipedal creatures that do not fit the bear, cat, dog, person, explanation. In the US people are reporting dogmen running beside their cars since the 1950's.

Why are these things witnessed and yet never leave a physical trace?

That suggests that they can remove themselves from a physical location or they are not physical beings at all.
 
stu neville said:
...This thing's taken on a UFO-like fervency among its proponents, and they will only accept the one explanation. Many are not only not interested in alternatives, they're actively hostile towards them...
Click to expand...

I think this represents a paradox which is very common across the whole spectrum of interest in things we choose to call Fortean. To paraphrase something I've written elsewhere: It seems to me to be the case that people who promote themselves as the opposite of the close minded sceptic are very often simply replacing one orthodoxy with another - domesticating the inherent strangeness of an event by applying it to a simplistic framework which they can more easily understand and believe in; in this way they're really just as sceptical as anyone else, and much more so than some. They also entirely miss the point that some of the explanations offered are no less worthy of inspiring awe at the workings of nature, science or the human consciousness than the one they adhere to with religious ferocity.
 
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