Cambodia Any Things Of Fortean Interest?
- Thread starter kingeinon
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Frideswide
Fortea Morgana :) PeteByrdie certificated Princess
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Do you have special interests? I mean are you a Bigfoot type person? or an Earth Mysteries? or Water Monsters?
CyberianTiger
Junior Acolyte
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Hi Kingeinon, I'm currently resident in the (so called) Kingdom of Wonder. As Frideswide said, it would be helpful if could narrow down your field of weirdness.
This lake would seem to have multiple Fortean angles, including poorly understood origins, and possible cryptids:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Yeak_Laom
http://www.tourismcambodia.org/provincial_guide/index.php?view=attdetail&prv=20&att=122&
This lake would seem to have multiple Fortean angles, including poorly understood origins, and possible cryptids:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Yeak_Laom
http://www.tourismcambodia.org/provincial_guide/index.php?view=attdetail&prv=20&att=122&
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
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But only do that if you want to be arrested! Buy some other type of thong, that'd be OK.
skinny
Nigh
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Fortean ~ The Killing Fields? Surely there must be some sort of memorial to that awesome crime. It would be like visiting Auschwitz, so not a day for the casual jaunt, but still the awful humanity of the events would provide a fairly deep experience for the Fortean traveller.
CyberianTiger
Junior Acolyte
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I've never been to the Killing Fields, as among other things, I've heard it's foreign owned and profit making. Tuol Sleng genocide museum is quite informative and shocking though.
Belief in ghosts and witchcraft is still fairly widespread here, especially in the countryside. I was talking to a Khmer gentleman who described a fireball entity that flies between significant village trees on significant Bhuddist days (his English isn't great so I'm not exactly sure what he meant about the trees/timings). If you cross your fingers over your forehead in a certain way and look at it, you will see it as a witch. The entity feeds upon placenta, and can be kept at bay if thorns are placed around the house.
It seems he was talking about the Arp, a disembodied female head with vital organs attached that flies around at night feeding on placenta and returns to its host body during the day. It is well known across the S.E Asia region under different names, but nobody I've spoken to has seen one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasue
Belief in ghosts and witchcraft is still fairly widespread here, especially in the countryside. I was talking to a Khmer gentleman who described a fireball entity that flies between significant village trees on significant Bhuddist days (his English isn't great so I'm not exactly sure what he meant about the trees/timings). If you cross your fingers over your forehead in a certain way and look at it, you will see it as a witch. The entity feeds upon placenta, and can be kept at bay if thorns are placed around the house.
It seems he was talking about the Arp, a disembodied female head with vital organs attached that flies around at night feeding on placenta and returns to its host body during the day. It is well known across the S.E Asia region under different names, but nobody I've spoken to has seen one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasue
MrRING
Android Futureman
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I'd recommend trying to find any remnants of Cambodia's 60's era psych music explosion, which is apparently having a comeback of sorts:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch...-uneasy-rebirth-of-cambodias-psychedelic-rock
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch...-uneasy-rebirth-of-cambodias-psychedelic-rock
CyberianTiger
Junior Acolyte
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http://seserak.blogspot.com/2005/12/sorcery-in-cambodia-little-perspective.html
Interesting blog on sorcery in Cambodia.
Sorcery in Cambodia: A Little Perspective
Published by seserak.
At daytime she is a normal person. At night she is a strange, scary creature: half-ghost and half-human.
Shortly after midnight, when all the village people are sound asleep, she would pull her head and all her internal organs out of her body and slip out through the window of her house, leaving behind her empty figure that is separated from the neck down. She would fly from house to house, sometimes from rice paddy to rice paddy, looking for some dirty and unpleasant stuff to feed herself. A villager-if he’s not yet asleep- could spot her easily since there is a bright green light emanating occasionally from her lungs as she goes from place to place.
Perhaps you haven’t heard of this kind of grotesque creature before. Ask any Cambodian what it is called.
Everyone knows it is called Arb, although I believe not many would claim to have seen Arb in real life, except in TV series or in movies. I’ve heard stories of people seeing Arb in my hometown a few times while I was a kid. But I have never been lucky enough to meet and talk to those people.
Usually, in Khmer, the word Arb is followed by the word Thmob. We say Arb-Thmob, meaning witchcraft or sorcery. A Guru Arb-Thmob (a witch) is believed to possess evil power that can cause harm, disease, bad luck or even sudden death to anyone he or she dislikes.
Now ask the same person again if he or she believes in Arb-Thmob or sorcery. If the person is from the City or town, the answer is likely to be a negative than a positive one. But if the person is from the countryside, where the majority of the population lives, I believe you are likely to get a ‘Yes’ response than a ‘No’, or if not, the unsure yes-and-no.
TheRFA (Radio Free Asia in Khmer-2007/11/27) has recently interviewed people in my hometown -Kampong Speu- and found out that among ten people who were asked whether they believe in sorcery, six people said they seriously do; three people said they are unsure, while one person reluctantly said he doesn’t. Interestingly, one of the people who gave the positive responses was the head of Kampong Speu provincial court, who claimed that he himself was a victim of sorcery.
For some, belief in sorcery has little to do with their lives. For others, this can be harmful to both the believers themselves and to the people they accuse of practicing sorcery.
Take the case of one of my neighbor who died several years ago. She was quite a religious woman. She had suffered for a long time from diabetes. At first she did consult the doctor, using all the modern medicine to fight the illness. But two or three weeks before her death, her family somehow resorted to consult the Guru Khmer (exorcist) who said she was actually enchanted. The exorcist said the evil spirit was extremely powerful, and that there was only one effective method he could use to make it leave her body.
And the method (one of the stupidest curing method I’ve ever heard) was rapping her body with salt and chilly, and placed her on a bed under which some pieces of coal were burning. It was like they were roasting her alive. This only exacerbated her illness. She died a few weeks later. Her family, however, didn’t take any legal suit against the Guru Khmer as they believed the evil spirit was too powerful to kill.
As to how many people were killed under such treatment, I do not know. I just hope she was the first and the last victim. Still, there have been numerous cases of people wasting their time and money on witch doctors who claimed to be able to effectively cure disease without having to use any medicine.
Very often, stories of such unusual people appear on various local newspaper and magazines. The recent one has been reported in the Kohsantepheap Daily. It was about a man who claimed to have been possessed by the spirit of a ghost’s doctor. He said the ghost's spirit enabled him to perform surgery on patients from outside their bodies by merely reciting magic words. As the Kohsantepheap Daily reported, hundreds of people flocked to his house, consequently creating immediate environmental problem in the local community such as pollution and congestion. Interestingly enough, he even offered his treatment service-surgery- via mobile phone to those who could not come to his house. Such an unbelievably advancing therapy!
In short, I’ve talked about the harm it does to people who believe their diseases are caused by evil spirit and sorcery. The real victims, however, are those who are accused of practicing this sort of witchcraft.
According to the same RFA's report, during the last two months, four people in my province have been killed after being accused by villagers of practicing witchcraft. The same cases happen every year through out the province. One such case happened around ten years ago, in a village next to mine.
In that, a middle-aged man was murdered after having long been suspected by villagers of evil practice(sorcery) causing disease, sudden death and bad luck to people in the village, including his neighbors. After his death, his wife and kids were discriminated and shunned by the whole community. She subsequently had to move out and never returned. The case has never been solved. Ironically, after the accused sorcerer died, people in the village continue to get sick, and die-either of natural or accidental cause.
In response to the increasing number of killings related to sorcery, the government has recently called on local government officials to educate people about the danger of this belief, and to stop them from believing in such irrationality.
Although this may sound easy, I believe the actual task can be rather difficult.
For one thing, belief in witchcraft or sorcery among some Cambodian has a long history-even longer than belief in Buddhism. As people started to adopt Buddhism as their religion, the two have co-existed ever since. In this way, belief in sorcery is deeply rooted in their minds. Simply telling them that sorcery is a false belief is like telling them to stop believing in their religion- buddhism.
Another thing is that the majority of those believing in sorcery -if not all- are the have-nots who receive little education. The belief will disappear when the country is economically and technologically advanced, which means more and more people will be educated. On the other hand, so long as the country remained poor and underdeveloped, with a high rate of illiteracy like today, belief in sorcery will continue to exist.
Having said that, I still applaud the move by the government to deal with problems stemming from this false belief. At least, it has started to show its concern over this long ignored issue.
---
*Author’s notes:
- There are a few recently made Khmer movies that deal with Arb, one of which is joining the 2005 Cambodian Film Festival. If you are curious to find out what Arb actually looks like, check out the movies at Angkorwat.com
- Belief in Arb-Thmob(witchcraft) in Cambodia may differ by regions. If you have any knowledge about Sorcery that is different from mine, please share it with me, either in my Comment section, or send to my mail: [email protected].
Interesting blog on sorcery in Cambodia.
Sorcery in Cambodia: A Little Perspective
Published by seserak.
At daytime she is a normal person. At night she is a strange, scary creature: half-ghost and half-human.
Shortly after midnight, when all the village people are sound asleep, she would pull her head and all her internal organs out of her body and slip out through the window of her house, leaving behind her empty figure that is separated from the neck down. She would fly from house to house, sometimes from rice paddy to rice paddy, looking for some dirty and unpleasant stuff to feed herself. A villager-if he’s not yet asleep- could spot her easily since there is a bright green light emanating occasionally from her lungs as she goes from place to place.
Perhaps you haven’t heard of this kind of grotesque creature before. Ask any Cambodian what it is called.
Everyone knows it is called Arb, although I believe not many would claim to have seen Arb in real life, except in TV series or in movies. I’ve heard stories of people seeing Arb in my hometown a few times while I was a kid. But I have never been lucky enough to meet and talk to those people.
Usually, in Khmer, the word Arb is followed by the word Thmob. We say Arb-Thmob, meaning witchcraft or sorcery. A Guru Arb-Thmob (a witch) is believed to possess evil power that can cause harm, disease, bad luck or even sudden death to anyone he or she dislikes.
Now ask the same person again if he or she believes in Arb-Thmob or sorcery. If the person is from the City or town, the answer is likely to be a negative than a positive one. But if the person is from the countryside, where the majority of the population lives, I believe you are likely to get a ‘Yes’ response than a ‘No’, or if not, the unsure yes-and-no.
TheRFA (Radio Free Asia in Khmer-2007/11/27) has recently interviewed people in my hometown -Kampong Speu- and found out that among ten people who were asked whether they believe in sorcery, six people said they seriously do; three people said they are unsure, while one person reluctantly said he doesn’t. Interestingly, one of the people who gave the positive responses was the head of Kampong Speu provincial court, who claimed that he himself was a victim of sorcery.
For some, belief in sorcery has little to do with their lives. For others, this can be harmful to both the believers themselves and to the people they accuse of practicing sorcery.
Take the case of one of my neighbor who died several years ago. She was quite a religious woman. She had suffered for a long time from diabetes. At first she did consult the doctor, using all the modern medicine to fight the illness. But two or three weeks before her death, her family somehow resorted to consult the Guru Khmer (exorcist) who said she was actually enchanted. The exorcist said the evil spirit was extremely powerful, and that there was only one effective method he could use to make it leave her body.
And the method (one of the stupidest curing method I’ve ever heard) was rapping her body with salt and chilly, and placed her on a bed under which some pieces of coal were burning. It was like they were roasting her alive. This only exacerbated her illness. She died a few weeks later. Her family, however, didn’t take any legal suit against the Guru Khmer as they believed the evil spirit was too powerful to kill.
As to how many people were killed under such treatment, I do not know. I just hope she was the first and the last victim. Still, there have been numerous cases of people wasting their time and money on witch doctors who claimed to be able to effectively cure disease without having to use any medicine.
Very often, stories of such unusual people appear on various local newspaper and magazines. The recent one has been reported in the Kohsantepheap Daily. It was about a man who claimed to have been possessed by the spirit of a ghost’s doctor. He said the ghost's spirit enabled him to perform surgery on patients from outside their bodies by merely reciting magic words. As the Kohsantepheap Daily reported, hundreds of people flocked to his house, consequently creating immediate environmental problem in the local community such as pollution and congestion. Interestingly enough, he even offered his treatment service-surgery- via mobile phone to those who could not come to his house. Such an unbelievably advancing therapy!
In short, I’ve talked about the harm it does to people who believe their diseases are caused by evil spirit and sorcery. The real victims, however, are those who are accused of practicing this sort of witchcraft.
According to the same RFA's report, during the last two months, four people in my province have been killed after being accused by villagers of practicing witchcraft. The same cases happen every year through out the province. One such case happened around ten years ago, in a village next to mine.
In that, a middle-aged man was murdered after having long been suspected by villagers of evil practice(sorcery) causing disease, sudden death and bad luck to people in the village, including his neighbors. After his death, his wife and kids were discriminated and shunned by the whole community. She subsequently had to move out and never returned. The case has never been solved. Ironically, after the accused sorcerer died, people in the village continue to get sick, and die-either of natural or accidental cause.
In response to the increasing number of killings related to sorcery, the government has recently called on local government officials to educate people about the danger of this belief, and to stop them from believing in such irrationality.
Although this may sound easy, I believe the actual task can be rather difficult.
For one thing, belief in witchcraft or sorcery among some Cambodian has a long history-even longer than belief in Buddhism. As people started to adopt Buddhism as their religion, the two have co-existed ever since. In this way, belief in sorcery is deeply rooted in their minds. Simply telling them that sorcery is a false belief is like telling them to stop believing in their religion- buddhism.
Another thing is that the majority of those believing in sorcery -if not all- are the have-nots who receive little education. The belief will disappear when the country is economically and technologically advanced, which means more and more people will be educated. On the other hand, so long as the country remained poor and underdeveloped, with a high rate of illiteracy like today, belief in sorcery will continue to exist.
Having said that, I still applaud the move by the government to deal with problems stemming from this false belief. At least, it has started to show its concern over this long ignored issue.
---
*Author’s notes:
- There are a few recently made Khmer movies that deal with Arb, one of which is joining the 2005 Cambodian Film Festival. If you are curious to find out what Arb actually looks like, check out the movies at Angkorwat.com
- Belief in Arb-Thmob(witchcraft) in Cambodia may differ by regions. If you have any knowledge about Sorcery that is different from mine, please share it with me, either in my Comment section, or send to my mail: [email protected].
Krepostnoi
Increasingly disenchanted
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I'm much obliged to you for drawing that to our attention. I'm struggling to convey, with all due privilege checked, my complete stupefaction that this exists at all. And pace Dr Johnson, unlike his dogs walking on hind legs, that track stands on its own merits.
ETA the whole Cambodia Rocks album is on Spotify. You'll never guess what I'm listening to just now.
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Swifty
doesn't negotiate with terriers
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Fortean tips no .. but if you're having a holiday in Cambodia, don't forget to pack your wife ..
Aurora Newman
Ephemeral Spectre
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This is so my subject as I am currently studying the art and architecture of Cambodia. But I feel you may have already gone on holiday. If so you had a wonderful visual time.
Aurora Newman
Ephemeral Spectre
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Something Forteana out there, Negi
Krepostnoi
Increasingly disenchanted
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I know it's not the main focus of the thread, but I'm interested in the Vietnamese angle - I'll be in HCMC over the lunar new year.
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I have some old emails about the mystery hominid if you`d like me to try 2 find them?
Krepostnoi
Increasingly disenchanted
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I'd appreciate it, if you're sure you don't mind rummaging around?
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Yes that`s fine,I`ll have a look today to see what I still have
Aurora Newman
Ephemeral Spectre
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Yes please
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Sadly the file where I thought this mystery hominid emails are in is empty but I`ll try & find time to look again b4 the weekend as I think I know where they are
Aurora Newman
Ephemeral Spectre
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Ok
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Right I have been looking through my files and I have found out a bit of information about the Vietnamese wild man.There was an organisation called the Vietnam Cryptozoic and Rare Animal Research Centre in 2008 which may still exist.Helmut Loofs-Wissowa was investigating the wild man as far back as 1998 as was Vern Weitzel( [email protected].)
In 2008 DAO VAN TIEN,Department of Zoology, Faculty of Biology,University of Hanoi,Hanoi,Vietnam was investigating the Wild man.I happen to know its been reported by American Vietnam War veterans("rock ape").If you can track down this site: http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~vern/wildman/tien.txt that gives alot of information.
Krepostnoi
Increasingly disenchanted
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Thank you. Trouble is, I've no chance of tracking down a mystery hominid if I can't even find the page in question: for me that URL just resolves to the university home page...
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Sorry
Do you know Richard Freeman,he can help.Or I can recommend some Facebook groups?
