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rynner2

Gone But Not Forgotten
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This article suggest that humans adapted to survive in harsh environments through drug use, which helped ensure the survival of the species.

Link is dead. See later post for access info and content.
 
This page gives details of an ancient trade in drugs in the Mediterranean region.

A thriving Bronze Age drug trade supplied narcotics to ancient cultures throughout the eastern Mediterranean as balm for the pain of childbirth and disease, proving a sophisticated knowledge of medicines dating back thousands of years, researchers say.

(and more)
 
Could this possibly explane the cocane mummies of egypt?
 
I can't remember who or where but I do remember a simple person who had not caught on that "drugs" aaaaaaaaaahhhh! Shock, Horror!!! and medicine used in hospitals are often closely related. She said drugs kill but medicine can't be the same because medicine is for healing. I didn't try to explain...

It is no suprise that useful plants have been traded for a long time. As for cocaine mummies, surely no scientist would be silly enough to contaminate an ancient artifact by snorting coke around it or off it. I am inclined to think that the traces of cocaine have been acquired recently - scientists should know better so maybe cleaners or security staff are the culprits. Either that or Peruvian Marching Powder has been popular a long time and traded across the oceans.
 
So Fireclown I suppose you reckon they were smoking eucyptus leaves as well near the mummies.
 
The Fireclown said:
I am inclined to think that the traces of cocaine have been acquired recently - scientists should know better so maybe cleaners or security staff are the culprits. Either that or Peruvian Marching Powder has been popular a long time and traded across the oceans.

I'm sure cleaners and security staff can't afford to snort cocaine.
Not regularly, anyhow.
 
Last I heard the stoned koala's was a myth. I assume you meant Eucalyptus. If not I have never heard of what you mention.

I have no idea how much coke costs but I have known of people working normal jobs who bought some every week. It isn't a billion dollars a gram. I know the police were investigating the cocaine mummies because it is more likely the mummies were contaminated recently.
 
In a book I was reading - The Mummy Congress it think, it said that the cocaine showed up in tests they did on the mummy's hair and supposedly it would only get into the hair if the person consumed the drug while alive. So, janitor's getting high on the job shouldn't really affect it, right? Or are tests like that really easy to contaminate?
 
The Fireclown said:
I have no idea how much coke costs but I have known of people working normal jobs who bought some every week. It isn't a billion dollars a gram

About £50 per gram on av in london. Allegedly. I have heard of these people who hold down jobs while ingesting Copiuos amounts of Chaz. You will often see them reading the news or appearing on Kids TV. Allegedly.
 
I think cocaine in hair samples means the person took it themselves. I think we need confirmation of exactly where on the mummy the cocaine was before we can get much further.
 
Apart from the (disputed) use of cocaine by the Egyptians, the attitude to "drugs" being found in anchient remains is informed by modern prejudices.

1 "Drugs is bad so therefore our hero's didn't use them"

2 "they wuz primitive people and couldn't trade over long distances"

IMO is that the we should get out of the mindset that the world and the ability to notice the effects of plant were only *discovered* by the western Europeans back in the 18-19 centuries.
 
'Drug trade' is being unfairly read as 'recreational drug trade.' It is only logical that drugs'd be traded like any other agricultural product.
The main point of this article is that drugs were used for their socially accepted purpose much earlier than thought-- which might inspire a scientific reassessment of the knowledge of science at that time.
Thanks.
 
"It's the first time it's ever been found in terms of direct evidence in an archaeological dig," Zias said. "You rarely find direct evidence of drugs in antiquity."

your man Zias doesnt get out much is all I can think.

one theory on the origin of alcohol (a drug by any definition) and its appearance around the world is that steeping grain in water is a way or preserving it over the winter. People accidently stumbled upon fermentation and liked it.

hash has been recognised as a medicinal drug for centuries as has opium. Bombay is awash with aincent hash & opium containers

the Incas and Aztecs did coca leaves with lime like 'B' grade rock stars.

Mexican Indians didnt stumble upon Peyote and Psylicybin (SP?) when Don Juan rolled up (if he ever did) and milky foul tasting muck made from chewing roots, spitting it into a pot and letting it ferment (just make mine a lager, thanks) pops up from Africa to Papua New Guinea.

and effecacious drug, medicinal or social carries a price, now as in the Bronze Age, and as such would be traded the same as skins, salt and, er, bronze.

a few friezes aside, you dont come up with much evidence for sex on an archealogical dig, but trust me, they were at it like rabbits them aincents.
 
It maters not the culture man will always find substances that alter mental reality and trade on it.There is evidence of ancient trade in Australia of Pitrui or Dubouisi Hopwoodi excuse the spelling its from memory.This drug was used with wattle ash as an activator and has a CNS effect.The best Pituri came from the inland and was traded as far as the coast 400 to 500 hundred miles away.Ancient man was no different from us and recognised resourses and traded with them .
 
I think this Ancient Drug Trade stuff is BS. Drugs were not illegal back in ancient times so a drug trade would be pointless. That would be like selling candles underground today. The chineese used opium. There may have been "companies" that sold what we call narcotics now. The ancient people had NO clue how harmfull narcotics were to you. All they knew was that it (A) felt good (B) It dulled pain and (C) It was profitable.
 
"Drug Trade" does not imply any kind of illegality.

If something is useful and is considered valuable it will be traded between those that have it in excess and those that want it. This is known as commerce (or trade).

IIRC this thread was started discussing out of place narcotics, such as traces of Cocaine (which comes from the Americas) being found in mummies from Egypt. How did a drug from the Americas get to Egypt during a period when, common wisdom has it, there was not conact between the two continents?
 
No KNOWN contact. There may have been a chain of trade that allowed cocaine into Egypt. Maybe they had been importing it for a long time and the place where the records was stored burned or was destroyed.
 
Jesus 'healed using cannabis'
Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.
The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract, suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

"There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic religion," Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston University said.

Referring to the existence of cannabis in anointing oils used in ceremonies, he added: "Obviously the easy availability and long-established tradition of cannabis in early Judaism... would inevitably have included it in the [Christian] mixtures."

Mr Bennett suggests those anointed with the oils used by Jesus were "literally drenched in this potent mixture... Although most modern people choose to smoke or eat pot, when its active ingredients are transferred into an oil-based carrier, it can also be absorbed through the skin".

Quoting the New Testament, Mr Bennett argues that Jesus anointed his disciples with the oil and encouraged them to do the same with other followers. This could have been responsible for healing eye and skin diseases referred to in the Gospels.

"If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient anointing oil... and receiving this oil is what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ," Mr Bennett concludes.
 
Drug prices

Where I live (middle of California-the agricultural heart of the west) cocaine is expensive, but affordable for occasional use. A nights worth (think 3-4 good smoking or snorting "sessions") will run ya about 40 bucks.
Don't ask me how I know. Tee hee.

;)
 
Researchers find oldest-ever stash of marijuana
Last Updated: Friday, November 28, 2008 | 8:53 AM ET Comments53Recommend51
The Canadian Press
Researchers say they have located the world's oldest stash of marijuana, in a tomb in a remote part of China.

The cache of cannabis is about 2,700 years old and was clearly "cultivated for psychoactive purposes," rather than as fibre for clothing or as food, says a research paper in the Journal of Experimental Botany.

The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China.

The extremely dry conditions and alkaline soil acted as preservatives, allowing a team of scientists to carefully analyze the stash, which still looked green though it had lost its distinctive odour.

"To our knowledge, these investigations provide the oldest documentation of cannabis as a pharmacologically active agent," says the newly published paper, whose lead author was American neurologist Dr. Ethan B. Russo.

Remnants of cannabis have been found in ancient Egypt and other sites, and the substance has been referred to by authors such as the Greek historian Herodotus. But the tomb stash is the oldest so far that could be thoroughly tested for its properties.

The 18 researchers, most of them based in China, subjected the cannabis to a battery of tests, including carbon dating and genetic analysis. Scientists also tried to germinate 100 of the seeds found in the cache, without success.

'Unequivocally cannabis,' say researchers

The marijuana was found to have a relatively high content of THC, the main active ingredient in cannabis, but the sample was too old to determine a precise percentage.

Researchers also could not determine whether the cannabis was smoked or ingested, as there were no pipes or other clues in the tomb of the shaman, who was about 45 years old.

The large cache was contained in a leather basket and in a wooden bowl, and was likely meant to be used by the shaman in the afterlife.

"This materially is unequivocally cannabis, and no material has previously had this degree of analysis possible," Russo said in an interview from Missoula, Mont.

"It was common practice in burials to provide materials needed for the afterlife. No hemp or seeds were provided for fabric or food. Rather, cannabis as medicine or for visionary purposes was supplied."

The tomb also contained bridles, archery equipment and a harp, confirming the man's high social standing.

Russo is a full-time consultant with GW Pharmaceuticals, which makes Sativex, a cannabis-based medicine approved in Canada for pain linked to multiple sclerosis and cancer.

Cannabis has roots in China

The company operates a cannabis-testing laboratory at a secret location in southern England to monitor crop quality for producing Sativex, and allowed Russo use of the facility for tests on 11 grams of the tomb cannabis.

Researchers needed about 10 months to cut red tape barring the transfer of the cannabis to England from China, Russo said.

The inter-disciplinary study was published this week by the British-based botany journal, which uses independent reviewers to ensure the accuracy and objectivity of all submitted papers.

The substance has been found in two of the 500 Gushi tombs excavated so far in northwestern China, indicating that cannabis was either restricted for use by a few individuals or was administered as a medicine to others through shamans, Russo said.

"It certainly does indicate that cannabis has been used by man for a variety of purposes for thousands of years." Russo, who had a neurology practice for 20 years, has previously published studies examining the history of cannabis.

"I hope we can avoid some of the political liabilities of the issue," he said, referring to his latest paper.

The region of China where the tomb is located, Xinjiang, is considered an original source of many cannabis strains worldwide.

Source
 
H_James said:
789 grams? Maximum doobage, man!
Well, one is dead a long time. Just think how much he must have had stashed, when they first buried him. ;)
 
First physical evidence of tobacco in a Mayan container
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-phy ... mayan.html
January 11th, 2012 in Other Sciences / Archaeology & Fossils


A Mayan vessel holds the first physical evidence of tobacco in the ancient culture. Credit: Library of Congress

A scientist at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and an anthropologist from the University at Albany teamed up to use ultra-modern chemical analysis technology at Rensselaer to analyze ancient Mayan pottery for proof of tobacco use in the ancient culture. Dmitri Zagorevski, director of the Proteomics Core in the Center for Biotechnology and Interdisciplinary Studies (CBIS) at Rensselaer, and Jennifer Loughmiller-Newman, a doctoral candidate at the University at Albany, have discovered the first physical evidence of tobacco in a Mayan container. Their discovery represents new evidence on the ancient use of tobacco in the Mayan culture and a new method to understand the ancient roots of tobacco use in the Americas.
Their research will appear in the journal Rapid Communications in Mass Spectrometry, in an article titled "The detection of nicotine in a Late Mayan period flask by GCMS and LCMS methods."

In recent years, archaeologists have begun to use chemical analysis of residues from ancient pottery, tools, and even mummies in an attempt to piece together minute clues about ancient civilizations. Among the potential problems with isolating a residue for analysis is preservation and contamination. Many vessels serve multiple purposes during their lives, resulting in muddled chemical data. Once the vessels are discarded, natural processes such as bacteria and water can destroy the surface of materials, erasing important evidence. Additionally, researchers must be attentive to archaeological field handling and laboratory treatment of the artifacts that might lead to cross contamination by modern sources.

To make their discovery, the researchers had a unique research opportunity: a more than 1,300-year-old vessel decorated with hieroglyphics that seemingly indicated the intended contents. Additionally, the interior of the vessel had not been cleaned, leaving the interior unmodified and the residue protected from contamination.

The approximately two-and-a-half-inch wide and high clay vessel bears Mayan hieroglyphics, reading "the home of his/her tobacco." The vessel, part of the large Kislak Collection housed at the Library of Congress, was made around 700 A.D. in the region of the Mirador Basin, in Southern Campeche, Mexico, during the Classic Mayan period. Tobacco use has long been associated with the Mayans, thanks to previously deciphered hieroglyphics and illustrations showing smoking gods and people, but physical evidence of the activity is exceptionally limited, according to the researchers.

Zagorevski used the technology within CBIS at Rensselaer, usually reserved to study modern diseases and proteins, to analyze the contents of the vessel for the chemical fingerprint of tobacco. The technology included gas chromatography mass spectrometry (GCMS) and high-performance liquid chromatography mass spectrometry (LCMS). Both are analytical chemistry techniques that combine the physical separation capabilities of gas or liquid chromatography with the analysis capabilities of mass spectrometry. The latter is used to determine molecular weights of compounds, their elemental composition, and structural characteristics.

Zagorevski and Loughmiller-Newman's analysis of the vessel found nicotine, an important component of tobacco in residues scrapped from the container. Both techniques confirmed the presence of nicotine. In addition, three oxidation products of nicotine were also discovered. Nicotine oxidation occurs naturally as the nicotine in tobacco is exposed to air and bacteria. None of the nicotine byproducts associated with the smoking of tobacco were found in the vessel, indicating that the vessel housed unsmoked tobacco leaves (possibly powered tobacco) and was not used as an ash tray. No other evidence of nicotine has been found, at this time, in any of the other vessels in the collection.

This discovery "provides rare and unequivocal evidence for agreement between a vessel's actual content and a specific ichnographic or hieroglyphic representation of that content (on the same vessel)," Loughmiller-Newman states in the paper. She is in the anthropology department at the University at Albany, studying ritual food stuff consumed by the Mayans.

Both Loughmiller-Newman and Zagorevski would like to see this technique used to analyze a greater variety of vessel types.

Provided by Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
 
Archaeologists are hailing the discovery of an "extraordinary cache" of cannabis found in an ancient burial in northwest China, saying that the unique find adds considerably to our understanding of how ancient Eurasian cultures used the plant for ritual and medicinal purposes.

In a report in the journal Economic Botany, archaeologist Hongen Jiang and his colleagues describe the burial of an approximately 35-year-old adult man with Caucasian features in China's Turpan Basin. The man had been laid out on a wooden bed with a reed pillow beneath his head.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...iscovery-scythians-turpan-archaeology-botany/
 
More on ancient drug use.

Did ancient Mesopotamians get high? Near Eastern rituals may have included opium, cannabis
By Andrew LawlerApr. 19, 2018 , 2:00 PM

MUNICH, GERMANY—For as long as there has been civilization, there have been mind-altering drugs. Alcohol was distilled at least 10,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, about the same time that agriculture took hold there. Elsewhere, for example in Mesoamerica, other psychoactive drugs were an important part of culture. But the ancient Near East had seemed curiously drug-free—until recently.

Now, new techniques for analyzing residues in excavated jars and identifying tiny amounts of plant material suggest that ancient Near Easterners indulged in a range of psychoactive substances. Recent advances in identifying traces of organic fats, waxes, and resins invisible to the eye have allowed scientists to pinpoint the presence of various substances with a degree of accuracy unthinkable a decade or two ago.

For example, “hard scientific evidence” shows that ancient people extracted opium from poppies, says David Collard, senior archaeologist at Jacobs, an engineering firm in Melbourne, Australia, who found signs of ritual opium use on Cyprus dating back more than 3000 years. By then, drugs like cannabis had arrived in Mesopotamia, while people from Turkey to Egypt experimented with local substances such as blue water lily. ...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...ly_2018-04-19&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=1982660
 
More on ancient drug use.

Did ancient Mesopotamians get high? Near Eastern rituals may have included opium, cannabis
By Andrew LawlerApr. 19, 2018 , 2:00 PM

MUNICH, GERMANY—For as long as there has been civilization, there have been mind-altering drugs. Alcohol was distilled at least 10,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, about the same time that agriculture took hold there. Elsewhere, for example in Mesoamerica, other psychoactive drugs were an important part of culture. But the ancient Near East had seemed curiously drug-free—until recently.

Now, new techniques for analyzing residues in excavated jars and identifying tiny amounts of plant material suggest that ancient Near Easterners indulged in a range of psychoactive substances. Recent advances in identifying traces of organic fats, waxes, and resins invisible to the eye have allowed scientists to pinpoint the presence of various substances with a degree of accuracy unthinkable a decade or two ago.

For example, “hard scientific evidence” shows that ancient people extracted opium from poppies, says David Collard, senior archaeologist at Jacobs, an engineering firm in Melbourne, Australia, who found signs of ritual opium use on Cyprus dating back more than 3000 years. By then, drugs like cannabis had arrived in Mesopotamia, while people from Turkey to Egypt experimented with local substances such as blue water lily. ...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...ly_2018-04-19&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=1982660

I know it's pedantic but alcohol was not distilled 10,000 years ago - it was brewed/fermented. Distillation does go back a surprising long way but not that far!

Poor reporting for a science magazine.
 
Last edited:
I know it's pedantic but alcohol was not distilled 10,000 years ago - it was brewed/fermented. Distillation does go back a surprising long way but not that far!

Poor reporting for a science magazine.

That is sloppy journalism, especially as you say for a science site.
 
More on ancient drug use.

Did ancient Mesopotamians get high? Near Eastern rituals may have included opium, cannabis
By Andrew LawlerApr. 19, 2018 , 2:00 PM

MUNICH, GERMANY—For as long as there has been civilization, there have been mind-altering drugs. Alcohol was distilled at least 10,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, about the same time that agriculture took hold there. Elsewhere, for example in Mesoamerica, other psychoactive drugs were an important part of culture. But the ancient Near East had seemed curiously drug-free—until recently.

Now, new techniques for analyzing residues in excavated jars and identifying tiny amounts of plant material suggest that ancient Near Easterners indulged in a range of psychoactive substances. Recent advances in identifying traces of organic fats, waxes, and resins invisible to the eye have allowed scientists to pinpoint the presence of various substances with a degree of accuracy unthinkable a decade or two ago.

For example, “hard scientific evidence” shows that ancient people extracted opium from poppies, says David Collard, senior archaeologist at Jacobs, an engineering firm in Melbourne, Australia, who found signs of ritual opium use on Cyprus dating back more than 3000 years. By then, drugs like cannabis had arrived in Mesopotamia, while people from Turkey to Egypt experimented with local substances such as blue water lily. ...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/04/did-ancient-mesopotamians-get-high-near-eastern-rituals-may-have-included-opium?utm_campaign=news_daily_2018-04-19&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=1982660

No fan of opiates, but it's interesting that they used cannabis in the ancient world. I wonder if it was medicinal or recreational or both?
 
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