Capitol Debate Chamber Washington DC Invaded By Armed Protesters

cycleboy2

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"[tear gas] can blind or kill people through chemical burns and respiratory failure. "

Hmmm...

https://www.propublica.org/article/...on-especially-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic
My guess and I'm not trying to be flippant, is heart attacks caused by an unusual amount of physical and emotional stress by people not used to such situations. I could be wrong, and tear gas may have played a part, but America doesn't boast a healthy population and its people have a life expectancy lower than in other rich countries.
 

Ogdred Weary

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is tear gas becoming more deadly?

Maybe it's New Variant tear gas? No more deadly, but spreads faster?

(with apologies and condolences to the families of those who have died here).
What?
 

escargot

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As an American, I am very sad.

Since the Capitol Hill police did not seem to be prepared, the conspiracy theories have started.

In the past we have seen the Capitol Police on TV prepared to the highest degree.

Two democratic senators from the red, southern Georgia is remarkable.
Just after the electing I heard a radio discussion about the conventions around the handover between the outgoing and incoming Presidents.

It is cordial and civilised, no matter how bitter the preceding election, to symbolise respect for the process of democracy.

Americans, we were told, learned from the horrors of the Civil War, and 'do not make war on each other.'
Looks like that idea's had its day.
 

McAvennie

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Like I said, this was being discussed elsewhere and I didn't know if they were true or not, but I thought worth mentioning in case they were. There are many different agendas in things like this :)

I certainly don't think the MSM is giving us the full story, but then again I don't trust them as far as I can throw them so there's that.

It seemed to have been a peaceful protest at the beginning. Flag waving and banner waving. People are entitled to that when they feel aggrieved and its a shame it had to descend into what it did.
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What I will say, anyone who has visited Washington will know how heavily secured these buildings are - and will have been especially so at this point. I struggle to understand how security failed so badly. Not just in them getting into the foyer but also to be able to get into Senator's offices and have time to take selfies. The sceptic would wonder if the security was levelled down somewhat to allow this invasion to occur more easily?

I'd echo the comments of those who mentioned it, but I don't think this is the end, I think we have a lot more political drama to come on the U.S. stage and things we have seen before in history as well as things we have never seen before coming up... I've a feeling that 2021 will be a year that will be long remembered on the U.S. historical landscape and not for positive reasons.
 
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Ermintruder

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This is what I was immediately reminded of, when I saw the footage from within Capitol Hill: and I thought it was all perhaps headed fully that way.

The 1981 Madrid 'putsch militaire'.....the scenes from the Cortez a few minutes into this video were horribly-resonant with what we were being shown from the USA.


(This seemed much more like what we were seeing yesterday, rather than, for example, the Michigan Capitol building invasion a few months ago).

There is a strong Fortean feeling of "where were you when you saw...?" such pivotal moments. And I know we'd want that shock of instancy and awareness to remain rare- and not become an acclimitised routine.
 

SketchyMagpie

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What I will say, anyone who has visited Washington will know how heavily secured these buildings are - and will have been especially so at this point. I struggle to understand how security failed so badly.

I'm not sure how close or far from the capitol this was but this footage of DC police letting them through the barrier is doing the rounds.

I'm only speculating here but it is documented that there are many Qanon followers in the police forces so maybe those that opened the barrier are of that persuasion?
 
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Frasier Buddolph

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Of course, so many of these rioters thought it would be a good idea to post their smiling faces on social media. I'm sure many have already been identified and will soon be offered an all-expenses-paid stay in one of our many beautiful lockups. Since the events took place in the Capitol, they must be looking at Federal charges. I'm no expert on the law, but don't most jurisdictions say that, if a death occurs during the commission of a crime, all those involved can be charged with homicide?
 
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Sabresonic

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escargot

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Of, course, so many of these rioters thought it would be a good idea to post their smiling faces on social media. I'm sure many have already been identified and will soon be offered an all-expenses-paid stay in one of our many beautiful lockups. Since the events took place in the Capitol, they must be looking at Federal charges. I'm no expert on the law, but don't most jurisdictions say that, if a death occurs during the commission of a crime, all those involved can be charged with homicide?
Giving that a 'laugh' was about the happy, easily-identifiable faces on the social media. I certainly do not take the discussion of possible murder charges lightly.

Interestingly, the only person known to have been shot was apparently killed by a police officer. How that pans out will be really interesting.

Will the officer be arrested and charged? Will he/she be tried?
What will happen if he/she is not? Will there be a BLM-type protest? Called what? 'Insurrectionists Lives Matter', perhaps? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Giving that a 'laugh' was about the happy, easily-identifiable faces on the social media. I certainly do not take the discussion of possible murder charges lightly.

Interestingly, the only person known to have been shot was apparently killed by a police officer. How that pans out will be really interesting.

Will the officer be arrested and charged? Will he/she be tried?
What will happen if he/she is not? Will there be a BLM-type protest? Called what? 'Insurrectionists Lives Matter', perhaps? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
The woman shot dead was Ashli Babbitt, a 35 year old Air Force veteran.

ashli.JPG
 

AnonyJoolz

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We're not marking anybody's card here, but we're also not going to have another attempt at a thread about whether the Democrats have given succour to ANTIFA, whether BLM are terrorists and whether Trump is culpable for the actions of the Proud Boys etc.

It will become whataboutery with rancour and descend into party politics.

What has gone on is not usual for a modern democracy; how serious and how irregular is up for debate, but I should say that the rightful locus of blame was transparent enough that we needn't mud-wrestle over it here. The Internet is large with many sites for political argument. This is not one of them.

Yes, that leaves the bounds of the discussion awkwardly narrow, but that's what we have--that or nothing.

Sources: please try to be a little discerning. 'Hot-takes' from the usual suspects almost always turn out to be spins and glosses. They aren't supposed to endure close analysis, they just function to steer the narrative in real time--good Forteans should be able to discern this with relative ease.

Do your best.
Thank you @Yithian
 

Spookdaddy

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I honestly don't think a few seconds footage of police moving a couple of ped barriers is evidence, in itself, of much.

Crowd control in fluid situations involves closing and opening zones of access in order to ease and control pressure points. Ped barriers are temporary use items intended to shepherd crowds, rather than corral them. The police on the ground may have felt those barriers presented more of a danger than a prevention to the protestors (also, a danger to the police - as they can be used offensively). And, as temporary barriers they may in fact have been used to block a right of way in a way which actually had no legal standing in the first place. There are so many potential variables involved in that situation, and the instructions given to those policing it, that, in isolation, the action is pretty meaningless.

At that point the police didn't really have any idea of what was to come - and a few temporary barriers weren't ever going to stop it.
 

AnonyJoolz

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Interesting article about previous attacks on/in the Capitol building, it seems the last significant one was in 1983

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55572825

"On 7 November 1983, an explosion ripped through the second floor of the Senate.
Just minutes before the explosion, someone claiming to be from a group named the Armed Resistance Unit called a Capitol switchboard warning of a pending attack, saying it was in retaliation for US military actions in Grenada and Lebanon...
"
 

Frasier Buddolph

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Interestingly, the only person known to have been shot was apparently killed by a police officer. How that pans out will be really interesting.
Reports this morning are that four are dead, one shot by police, three dead of medical emergencies

As I understand it (and I am happy to be corrected if wrong). the Felony Murder Doctrine applies even if the death occurs because of the action of a third party or bystander, in this case the action of a police officer to put an end to the crime. Since these cases are unlikely to be charged or brought to trial until after the change of administration, I suspect these rioters could be looking at some serious time if the new DOJ chooses to make examples of them.
 
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SketchyMagpie

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Giving that a 'laugh' was about the happy, easily-identifiable faces on the social media. I certainly do not take the discussion of possible murder charges lightly.

Interestingly, the only person known to have been shot was apparently killed by a police officer. How that pans out will be really interesting.

Will the officer be arrested and charged? Will he/she be tried?
What will happen if he/she is not? Will there be a BLM-type protest? Called what? 'Insurrectionists Lives Matter', perhaps? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
Not an answer to any of your questions, but she was shot whilst the attempting to climb through the broken glass window of a door into an area blocked off by police (there is footage on YouTube). There are calls to break the doors down by the rioters immediately before she climbs up.
 

SketchyMagpie

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I honestly don't think a few seconds footage of police moving a couple of ped barriers is evidence, in itself, of much.

Crowd control in fluid situations involves closing and opening zones of access in order to ease and control pressure points. Ped barriers are temporary use items intended to shepherd crowds, rather than corral them. The police on the ground may have felt those barriers presented more of a danger than a prevention to the protestors (also, a danger to the police - as they can be used offensively). And, as temporary barriers they may in fact have been used to block a right of way in a way which actually had no legal standing in the first place. There are so many potential variables involved in that situation, and the instructions given to those policing it, that, in isolation, the action is pretty meaningless.

At that point the police didn't really have any idea of what was to come - and a few temporary barriers weren't ever going to stop it.
There is more of it (with evidence) here:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01...ers-get-into-capitol-hill-washington/13038568
 

Sillyhuron

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A very dear friend of mine, 70+ mature & very kind, wrote me that's she's cheering the mob on, & hopes they steal all the computers so they can get the real secrets before "The Crypt Keeper" takes over.

Good Ghod. I may have to give up on it all.
 

Spookdaddy

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Policing something like this must present the authorities with a terrible conundrum.

An overwhelming show of force on such a day sends out a terrible message to the rest of the world. For a nation which portrays itself as a beacon and exporter of democracy, having to ring the processes involved with blue lights and armoured cars and lines of men in battledress is most decidedly not a good look - not when you’re trying to sell that process to the rest of the world.

Such a look would also inflame and energise many of the already volatile ingredients that make up part of the mindset of many of the most invested of the protestors involved: big government, backed by military force; federal might over individual rights; the whole martyr complex thing so intoxicating to those who have been convinced that they are the left behind. And where the potential force involved is increased, so, clearly, is the potential for its use: Imagine Ruby Ridge, or Waco – and the galvanising effects involved - multiplied many, many times over. The stuff of utter nightmare for any administration.

Also, given repeated threats, warnings and reassurances over the last few weeks in regard to the use of force in relation the democratic process – letting loose the National Guard yesterday could have represented a huge own goal.

Being utterly cold-blooded about it, I think what happened was possibly the not most horrible of several evils. (Obviously, the best case scenario was that nothing was going to happen - but does anyone think that was ever going to be the case?) In running its course, the protest is likely to have led to the sloughing of support of a considerable section of the more moderately resentful - people who might have been radicalised by official use of overwhelming might and the toxicity of its consequences. And the US government has proved that it can in fact carry on the day to day working of the process even under extreme duress.

It’s bad…it’s really bad - but it’s definitely not the worst bad it could have been – not by a very long way.
 
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GNC

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"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Dr Samuel Johnson

A disaster waiting to happen. So much to say, but I don't want to tread on any toes. I will note that someone makes a mint out of the merchandise in these situations, don't they?
 

Ogdred Weary

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"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Dr Samuel Johnson
I defer to Ambrose Bierce on this matter:

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.
In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
 

Stormkhan

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In the past we have seen the Capitol Police on TV prepared to the highest degree.
Perhaps they were prepared for protests, practiced for potential situations, but they were overcome by the actual enormity of reality. You can be trained for any eventuality but it can't prepare you for the real emotional impact. Train for the unthinkable ... it's still unthinkable.
Americans, we were told, learned from the horrors of the Civil War, and 'do not make war on each other.'
Looks like that idea's had its day.
Only 'certain' Americans.
The protesters, in general, seem to me to have a romanticised vision of what actually sparked the civil war and what followed. It's one thing being a rebel, a freedom fighter but no amount of rhetoric or real intent can prepare for reality. See above.
It says it all when a prospective protester, stopped at the entrance and maced, seemed horrified and disbelieving when rebellion appears to be quite painful. She wasn't to know being a revolutionary actually involved violence. :rolleyes:
I genuinely feel that there has now been a decade-long disconnect between reality and ideals. "I'd fight to defend my country" has gone from those who've experienced warfare to those who've played Call of Duty a lot and think that they are the ones who get to decide who are the genuine patriots, the true Americans.
 

Stormkhan

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Will the officer be arrested and charged? Will he/she be tried?
What will happen if he/she is not? Will there be a BLM-type protest? Called what? 'Insurrectionists Lives Matter', perhaps? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
As I understand it (and I am happy to be corrected if wrong). the Felony Murder Doctrine applies even if the death occurs because of the action of a third party or bystander, in this case the action of a police officer to put an end to the crime. Since these cases are unlikely to be charged or brought to trial until after the change of administration, I suspect these rioters could be looking at some serious time if the new DOJ chooses to make examples of them.
Currently, in both State and Federal law, there is still standing - and supported several times over the years by the Supreme Court - the principle of Qualitative Immunity. A nice explanation here --->
It's highly unlikely that, in this particular situation, the officer responsible will be prosecuted. This doesn't mean that action cannot be taken against their employers.

While I know this board treads a fine line with it's posts and politics, I think there is a place for discussion over the ongoing situation in FT circles. Not only are we seeing an involvement with the QAnon phenomena, we are also witnessing the consequences of a group's possibly deluded beliefs spilling into direct action. This is the political version of the whole "Storm Area 51" mind-set; nice in theory but circumstances meant it was both impractical and pointless. In this case, it was practical ... but equally pointless.
After all, what is the desired end result? Trump being returned to office? It's not going to happen because of their actions, not in spite of them. So the mob given the rule enjoyed the moment ... but neither considered the consequences either personally or for their stated aims. In this, from a disassociated view, it's an interesting view of human nature.
Sadly, there are real-life consequences.
EDIT: Huh. I dunno why a SFW video on US legal facts is age restricted. You Tube algorithms, eh?
 
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EnolaGaia

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Currently, in both State and Federal law, there is still standing - and supported several times over the years by the Supreme Court - the principle of Qualitative Immunity. A nice explanation here ...
If the video is inaccessible see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

... or any of the other overviews available online.


EDIT: Huh. I dunno why a SFW video on US legal facts is age restricted. You Tube algorithms, eh?
I suspect it's a deliberate configuration style employed by the channel owner (the heavily self-merchandised LegalEagle ...) for legal reasons.
 

sherbetbizarre

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The Q shaman — conspirituality runs riot on Capitol Hill
There’s not much I can add to all that will be written about yesterday’s day of infamy, but I can perhaps shed light on one aspect of it — the role of ‘conspirituality’ in fomenting yesterday’s riot, and in shaping the man who will go down as its poster-boy: Jake Angeli, the ‘Q shaman’. ‘Conspirituality’ refers to the over-lap between New Age / wellness culture and conspiracy culture.

Jake Angeli is a 32-year-old actor from Arizona, not very successful by the looks of it, whose now deleted backstage.com page proclaims that he is an ‘highly-talented’ voice-actor who can do over 30 different voices. He was previously in the Navy, then got into psychedelic drugs (mushrooms and peyote), and is now a ‘self-initiated shaman’ who set up something called the ‘Star-Seed Academy — the Enlightenment and Ascension Mystery School’.

He was interviewed on the ‘Cosmic Gaia’ podcast last year, and this was how he described himself there:

Yellowstone Wolf aka Jake Angeli (whichever you prefer) is a Self Initiated Shamanic Practitioner, Energetic Healer, Ordained Minister, Public Speaker & Published Author. He has walked the Shamanic path for 20 years and has had numerous paranormal and UFO experiences.. He has also defeated dark demonic forces, held sacred ceremonies, cleansed ecosystems and liberated minds.
https://julesevans.medium.com/the-q-shaman-conspirituality-goes-rioting-on-capitol-hill-24bac5fc50e6
 

EnolaGaia

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Authorities are moving rapidly to compile and collate evidence - including massive amounts of recorded imagery - to identify Capitol intruders for prosecution.

One oft-shown looter (the 'lectern thief') has already been identified as a man from Florida.

StealingLectern.jpg
Capitol Lectern Thief Is A Florida Man

The Trump supporter who was photographed yesterday waltzing through the Capitol Rotunda carrying a lectern looted from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is, of course, a Florida Man.

The thief--for whom federal charges surely await--is Adam Christian Johnson, a 36-year-old from Parrish, a community about 40 miles south of Tampa.

Wearing a Trump ski hat, a beaming Johnson was photographed waving as he fled with a wooden lectern carrying the Speaker’s seal. ...
FULL STORY: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/pelosi-lectern-thief-759308
 

EnolaGaia

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A fifth person has died as a result of the 6 January Capitol invasion - a US Capitol Police officer ...
US Capitol Police officer has died following riot at Capitol
From CNN's Kristin Wilson, Evan Perez and David Brooks

A US Capitol Police officer has died from events stemming from Wednesday's riot at the Capitol, three sources confirmed to CNN.
The police officer is now the fifth person to die as a result of the day's violence. One woman was shot and killed by Capitol Police as the crowd breached the building and three others suffered medical emergencies that proved fatal. ...
SOURCE: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/washington-dc-election-riots/index.html
 
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