Capitol Debate Chamber Washington DC Invaded By Armed Protesters

Kondoru

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Xantic; best post ever on this subject.
 

Lobeydosser

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EDITED

Political Speculation Removed

Now, with my Tinfoil hat on [...] I could theorise it was all meant to be a bit of theatre (hence Police seeming to let folk through in places) designed to divert attention in the media from the events inside. Unfortunately it went a bit of the rails and folk were hurt and killed.

When it comes to "conspiracy" or "cock up" - I tend to subscribe to the view that it's usually both , something a bit dodgy is "allowed" to happen, it goes wrong , then everyone covers their arse.

EDITED

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Cochise

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There are people calling the disturbance an insurrection. Oh good grief. Have people any idea what an actual insurrection looks like? I presume they don't teach history in schools any more.

It clearly didn't start out threatening or the police would have taken action much earlier.
 

Lobeydosser

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Ah, sorry I made the mistake of mentioning who I thought "might" benefit from the "distraction" - tricky business this. I think my reaction is somewhat similar to Cochise here.
 

EnolaGaia

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The intruder famously resting at House Speaker Pelosi's desk has been arrested.
Man with foot up on desk in Pelosi's office at Capitol arrested

A man photographed casually sitting with his foot on a desk in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office at the U.S. Capitol while a pro-Trump mob rampaged the halls of Congress was arrested Friday, law enforcement officials said.

Richard Barnett, 60, of Gravette, Arkansas, was taken into custody in his home state on charges of entering and remaining on restricted grounds, violent entry and theft of public property, according to a Department of Justice official. Further details were not immediately available. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1253490
 

EnolaGaia

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This week's Associated Press 'Not Real News' disinfo debunking column includes this item relating to the Capital intrusion. It debunks multiple claims that one or another of the intruders recorded on 6 January were actually infiltrators from adversary activist groups or movements.
No truth to alleged ‘evidence’ that Capitol rioters were antifa activists

CLAIM: Photos prove that some of the rioters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday were antifa activists, not Trump supporters.

THE FACTS: There’s no credible evidence to date that rioters who breached the Capitol in an effort to stop certification of U.S. presidential election results were supporters of antifa — a shortened form of “anti-fascists” that’s used as an umbrella term for far-left leaning militant groups. Steven D’Antuono, the assistant director in charge of the FBI’s Washington field office, told reporters Friday there’s “no indication” at this time that antifa activists were disguised as Trump supporters in Wednesday’s riot. ...
https://apnews.com/article/election...ctions-media-1dc11c4372a6f54c7322d9de83727434
 
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EnolaGaia

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This Associated Press article provides a summary overview of the investigative and prosecutorial efforts in progress ...
EXPLAINER: Who has been charged in the deadly Capitol riot?

The top federal prosecutor for the District of Columbia has said “all options are on the table” for charging the rioters ... Investigators are combing through photos, videos and tips from the public to track down members of the violent mob. ...

A Capitol Police officer died after he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher as rioters descended on the building and many other officers were injured. A woman from California was shot to death by Capitol Police and three other people died after medical emergencies during the chaos.

Some questions and answers about the investigation into the Capitol breach:

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CHARGED?

The U.S. attorney’s office for D.C., which handles both local and federal cases in the district, had filed 17 cases in federal court and at least 40 others in the Superior Court by Saturday. The cases in Superior Court mainly have to do with things like curfew violations and gun crimes. Those being tried in federal court, where prosecutors can generally secure longer sentences, are charged with things like violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, assaulting a federal law enforcement officer and threatening House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Defendants facing federal charges include Richard Barnett, the Arkansas man shown in a widely seen photo sitting in Pelosi’s office with his boots on the desk. Barnett is charged with crimes including theft of public money, property or records.

Another man being tried in federal court, Lonnie Coffman of Falkville, Alabama, was arrested after authorities say they found guns and 11 Molotov cocktail explosive devices made out of Mason jars, golf tees and cloth rags in his pickup truck.

A Florida man identified as the person seen in a photo shared widely on social media carrying the speaker of the House’s lectern also was arrested Friday. Adam Johnson faces charges including theft of government property.

WHY HAVEN’T MORE PEOPLE BEEN CHARGED YET?

Prosecutors say these charges are just the beginning. Authorities said Friday that said additional cases remained under seal and dozens of other people were being sought by federal agents. ...

U.S. attorneys in several states, including Kentucky, Ohio and Oregon, said people could face charges in their home states if they traveled to Washington and took part in the riot. The FBI has released photos of people inside the Capitol, urging the public to help identify them. ...

COULD THEY FACE MORE SERIOUS CHARGES?

Michael Sherwin, acting U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, said this week that prosecutors are not keeping anything out of their “ arsenal for potential charges.” As prosecutors gather more evidence, they can add more charges against those they’ve already arrested.

Experts say federal prosecutors could bring rarely used seditious conspiracy charges against some of the rioters. ...
FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/joe-bide...iots-arrests-3cd5b02adb60929afdd058aee620eea9

See Also:
More arrests in Capitol riot as more video reveals brutality
https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...nancy-pelosi-d5802b3dd89144f45356d0871942e02f
 

Victory

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Apple suspend Parler from the App store for "inciting violence."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/apple-suspends-parler-from-app-store

It's quite a thing....to see the current POTUS blocked from Twitter, then to see an entire App suspended.

To counter this, we might see a return to that most 18th century political publicity tool...the pamphlet...only this time pushed through the letterbox to take advantage of people sheltering in place, instead of sold in coffee houses and pie shops.
Unless Dorsey buys up all the ink....

Title-page-Common-Sense-Thomas-Paine-1776.jpg
 
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Aether Blue

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I shan't comment on ultimate responsibility for this outrage, since that might break the rules here, and really all the facts are not in yet anyway.

Here follow some questions that may have genuine Fortean implications:

1) To what extent did foreign intelligence services aid, abet, or take advantage of this event?

2) Were fifth columnists present among the forces nominally tasked with protecting the Capitol, and if so, how much did they contribute to the outcome?

3) Was the absurd dress and behavior on the part of the rioters truly spontaneous, or did it serve some premeditated purpose, like diverting attention from more serious objectives, like espionage, sabotage, or the deployment of poisonous substances or disease vectors?

4) What serious objectives did any of the participants have, and which, if any, of those were achieved?

NB: These questions are not rhetorical. It may well be that the event occurred more or less spontaneously, and no hidden goals were achieved.
 

Spookdaddy

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There are people calling the disturbance an insurrection. Oh good grief. Have people any idea what an actual insurrection looks like? I presume they don't teach history in schools any more...
It may not have been as cogent, coherent and well organised as the best known political insurrections we might have learned about in history lessons, but the three operative words involved - 'violence' 'against' and 'government' - mean that it was by any legal and or dictionary definition an act of insurrection. Using the same standards, the remote encouragement of such activities is sedition. I think, from a strictly legal point of view, insurrection is seen as the attempt to affect government by attacks on institutions themselves, rather than outlying elements of its power - the boiler room, rather than the stoker. Therefore, violence against police on the street might lead to criminal charges, but not necessarily of insurrection (even though they are the sharp end of the process of the law as legislated and administered by government). But, violence deliberately targeting the centres of legal administration and record = insurrection.

That's technically speaking. My own point of view would be that if the attack was simply the result of emotions gone lethally out of control, then that's one thing. But, if there really was a concerted and organised attempt to remove or destroy ballot papers, or hold hostages within the Capitol - attempts deliberately camouflaged within a Trojan Horse of chaotic mob action - then those would be acts of insurrection...in big, fat capital letters.
 

ramonmercado

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Jason Colavito on Buffalo Bill et al.

It should surprise no one that yesterday’s siege of the United States Capitol by a pro-Trump right-wing mob included close connections to right-wing conspiracy theories, and not just the putative election fraud claim Pres.

Donald Trump used to incite the violence at a rally yesterday afternoon. Many of the thugs who invaded the Capitol sported QAnon clothing, and at least one brandished a flag printed with a “Trump—JFK Jr.” slogan, a reference to a QAnon conspiracy theory imagining that the late son of John F. Kennedy is both secretly alive and about to become Trump’s second vice president. On Fox News Channel, Tucker Carlson spun a conspiracy theory that Antifa agitators had infiltrated the mob, while actual journalists identified several of its members as known white nationalist and right-wing extremists.

One of the most visually striking of the angry thugs was the shirtless “Viking” or “shaman” dressed in war paint with a horned headdress and tattoos associated with neo-paganism and white nationalism. The so-called “Q-Shaman” has been a regular fixture at pro-Trump rallies across the country, a longtime “Q-influencer,” and yesterday the man news organizations identified as Jake Angeli, 33, seized the dais in the Senate chamber in the name of Donald Trump. He is also a believer in wild conspiracies that are ripped straight out of Ancient Aliens and other similar cable TV programs.

Angeli appears to be the same man who operates a YouTube channel (which YouTube terminated late Thursday) that had posted a series of conspiratorial videos since the November election. The man in the videos has the same look and build and the same set of distinctive tattoos. He also identifies himself by the same name. In the videos, Angeli presents the standard QAnon belief system, including pedophile rings, a “cabal” of evil liberals and globalists, and a quasi-religious infatuation with Donald Trump—many of which were ideas that emerged from the 1980s satanic panic and were packaged as a right-wing mystery religion by Ancient Aliens star David Wilcock and other conspiracy mongers in the months before QAnon adopted them wholesale. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/c...-to-be-secret-military-psychic-space-warrior#
 

Stormkhan

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When it comes to scenes of officials apparently allowing the protesters entry, selfies etc. always consider 'the heat of the moment', the fear of escalation at the front line and, ultimately, the officers have their own political opinions and affiliations.
If a copper is seen aiding and abetting the protesters, it is probably not sanctioned or planned by his superiors; it's too damn obvious that there'd be recordings of it happening.
 

Victory

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Being pedantic; but for hypothetical purposes, was this an act of protest against the legislature, using both non-violent and violent protest to contest the electoral outcome, at the behest of the democratically elected, but outgoing, head of the executive arm of government?

I have no idea if that qualifies as insurrection.
 

Stormkhan

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I'd suggest that it depends on whether the actual violent protest was planned and what the actual outcome was intended.
I think the authorities will be 'satisfied' with criminal charges relating to damage, assault on officers etc. rather than having to prove that Joe Bloggs from Butthole AZ was trying to overthrow the government.
An emotional, vocal mob is easy to incite to do violence and damage; most don't 'think it through' and consider the consequences. Like the protester outraged that she got maced, saying she wanted revolution. Didn't she consider that revolution is dangerous?
I question not the intent or desired outcome of the actual mob; I question those - obvious and secret alike - who fuelled the emotions. What was their intended outcome?
Did anyone honestly think that such action would invalidate the election and re-seat Trump in the White House?
Politics aside, recent events are putting more and more barriers between Trump and any form of presidential campaign for 2024. So what does anyone think will be achieved by these actions?
As they say with any crime - Qui bono?
 

SketchyMagpie

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Did anyone honestly think that such action would invalidate the election and re-seat Trump in the White House?
Unfortunately, for a large swathe of the Qanon crowd, I think the answer is genuinely "yes". The Qanon Anonymous podcast always includes a ot of audio from Qanon followers and interviews at protests etc and that seems to have been their aim, the belief that their actions on that day would result in Trump remaining in office.
 

Spookdaddy

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Being pedantic; but for hypothetical purposes, was this an act of protest against the legislature, using both non-violent and violent protest to contest the electoral outcome, at the behest of the democratically elected, but outgoing, head of the executive arm of government?

I have no idea if that qualifies as insurrection.
I suspect that the crux lies in the difference between a particular government/administration, and the institution of government/administration - and, in this instance, whether the former, or the former's proxies, attempt to undermine the due processes of the latter.

I also suspect that someone will have explained that separation far better than I - and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if, somewhat ironically, it was one of the founding fathers.
 

Mikefule

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Being pedantic; but for hypothetical purposes, was this an act of protest against the legislature, using both non-violent and violent protest to contest the electoral outcome, at the behest of the democratically elected, but outgoing, head of the executive arm of government?

I have no idea if that qualifies as insurrection.
Setting aside any political opinions as far as I can:

As with any legal process in a civilised country, contesting the electoral outcome would involve presenting a coherent case with clear and tenable allegations supported by evidence.

The right to protest allows things like making impassioned speeches, marching, chanting, waving placards, writing letters to newspapers, organising petitions, lobbying those in power, and using peaceful and legal means to attract attention to your cause.

A group of people working together with a common aim, using physical force and sheer weight of numbers, whether armed or not, to invade government buildings, cause damage, and intimidate elected officials is insurrection.

These people were not "contesting" the outcome. They were simply rejecting the outcome because it didn't suit them.

Elections are rigged in many countries around the world: the common factor is a sitting government clinging onto or reinforcing its power by cheating and intimidation.

The allegation that an opposition party is alleged to have successfully rigged an election in order to defeat the party in poweris, as far as I am aware, unique. It would not say much for the competence of the administration that allowed such a thing to happen!
 

eburacum

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All the indications are that this was the fairest election ever held in the US, and was almost entirely free from fraud.

That's not saying much, considering the disparity between the popular vote and the electoral college vote. I'm not entirely sure why that disparity is allowed to continue, but a president who lost the popular vote was elected in 1824, 1876, 1888, 2000 and 2016, so it is nothing new.
 
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ChasFink

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I suspect that the crux lies in the difference between a particular government/administration, and the institution of government/administration - and, in this instance, whether the former, or the former's proxies, attempt to undermine the due processes of the latter.

I also suspect that someone will have explained that separation far better than I - and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if, somewhat ironically, it was one of the founding fathers.
I don't know if this is still taught in American schools, but when I was growing up, I was taught that the government is the institution and the laws, operating at the will of the people. The executive administration, congress, and supreme court at the moment are only the stewards of that government, not the government per se. Simplistic and idealistic perhaps, but a concept that often surfaces in times like this.
 

Yithian

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All the indications are that this was the fairest election ever held in the US, and was almost entirely free from fraud.

That's not saying much, considering the disparity between the popular vote and the electoral college vote. I'm not entirely sure why that disparity is allowed to continue, but a president who lost the popular vote was elected in 1824, 1876, 1888, 2000 and 2016.
It's simple when you correctly think of fifty countries instead of one.

Ditto two senators per state regardless of population.

These people do not seen to me to have any legitimate grievance in terms of electoral probity; the grievance they have is with the opinions of their countrymen, but that doesn't justify an attempt to stymie the legal process.
 

Spookdaddy

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I don't know if this is still taught in American schools, but when I was growing up, I was taught that the government is the institution and the laws, operating at the will of the people. The executive administration, congress, and supreme court at the moment are only the stewards of that government, not the government per se. Simplistic and idealistic perhaps, but a concept that often surfaces in times like this.
Idealistic it may be, but also essential - otherwise any elected government/administration, once in power, can dismantle the very machinery that got it into power in the first place, thereby guaranteeing that it never loses hold of it. A process for which there are clear precedents.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Idealistic it may be, but also essential - otherwise any elected government/administration, once in power, can dismantle the very machinery that got it into power in the first place, thereby guaranteeing that it never loses hold of it. A process for which there are clear precedents.
A self-coup.
 

charliebrown

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Today, American TV news programs showed a policeman being beaten with a rod with an American flag attached to it.

Being American, this act made me so sick I just wanted to throw up.

I am sure these same people will attack Biden’s inauguration.
 

Stormkhan

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Sadly, I think you're correct.
However, since the outrage at the Capitol, I think the law-enforcement will be more tough - and thoroughly trained to expect violent behaviour. Nothing is considered beyond the pale now, suspected troublemakers will be identified and monitored, and both sides must realise what potential there is for physical harm, even death.
In the enforcement bodies, I'm sure many previously sympathetic officers might now hesitate to aid or assist any rioters; being caught up in the heat of the moment is one thing, being shown exactly what to expect is another.
Time to reflect.
The attack on the Capitol may be explained as spontaneous but any action during the inauguration - with past events taken in to account - can be taken as intended or expected.
 

Kondoru

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I sure hope that all these Rebels Without Causes have fled the country by now...
 
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