Capitol Debate Chamber Washington DC Invaded By Armed Protesters

EnolaGaia

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Stormkhan

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A smart move.
You know you will be arrested so you choose your time of arrest. You are literally proactive in the very predictable outcome of your actions.
Think on it.
He (his lawyers, read this throughout) can say he is cooperating with law enforcement officers. He is obeying all legal restrictions and requirements upon him as an *ahem* law abiding citizen. He is, in fact, covering his ass.
He's had his moment of fame, his hero-worship that he might've desired. His recognition. More than Andy Warhol proclaimed, his image is worldwide and lasting. After that, who cares?
And those who support the protests? They'll see the action, the image, the newsfeed. They'll see him as a symbol of the rebellion. They don't care and won't look to what actually results from his actions. Most of them probably don't even know his real name.
Court cases are boring. Mobile phone videos are fantastic.
If he goes to prison, when he finishes his sentence, the media will resurrect him as "the nutter in the horned hat".
It sells papers.
I don't think Jakey has caught on yet that he is in serious trouble.
I disagree. I think he knows exactly what is going on. A criminal who identifies themselves in the fullest possible manner cannot be aware of their crime.
As long as his ego gets fed then he's willing to do anything to maintain that feeding. Whatever happens to him, legally and realistically, from now on feeds his self-worth. If no one else, he sees himself as a martyr.
 

Tigerhawk

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A smart move.
You know you will be arrested so you choose your time of arrest. You are literally proactive in the very predictable outcome of your actions.
Think on it.
He (his lawyers, read this throughout) can say he is cooperating with law enforcement officers. He is obeying all legal restrictions and requirements upon him as an *ahem* law abiding citizen. He is, in fact, covering his ass.
He's had his moment of fame, his hero-worship that he might've desired. His recognition. More than Andy Warhol proclaimed, his image is worldwide and lasting. After that, who cares?
And those who support the protests? They'll see the action, the image, the newsfeed. They'll see him as a symbol of the rebellion. They don't care and won't look to what actually results from his actions. Most of them probably don't even know his real name.
Court cases are boring. Mobile phone videos are fantastic.
If he goes to prison, when he finishes his sentence, the media will resurrect him as "the nutter in the horned hat".
It sells papers.

I disagree. I think he knows exactly what is going on. A criminal who identifies themselves in the fullest possible manner cannot be aware of their crime.
As long as his ego gets fed then he's willing to do anything to maintain that feeding. Whatever happens to him, legally and realistically, from now on feeds his self-worth. If no one else, he sees himself as a martyr.
I'm reminded of the media circus that was the O.J Simpson trial (very different circumstances) - after 20 years or so, how many can recall people other than the vaguest details (the lawyers, the weird friend, etc) - people will remember the big details, but the names of assorted weirdos will escape us. The images will last longer than names.
 

Kondoru

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Of course, with those horns, it might be hard for him to vanish.

Not many cows these days have horns.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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As a lifelong Alabamian-I've been there, through the Civil Rights era and then thru the innocence of 70s Lynyrd Skynyrd & the notion that Jimmy Carter's "New South" had outgrown the old Klan/racist symbolism of the Confederate Battle Flag. People thought they were actually co-opting the symbol and making it mean something else. I never felt good about it myself, but I was willing to give my fellow fans of Southern Rock or the Duke boys a break regarding its use... for a while.
But sometime, in the 80s or early 90s, the symbol began to regain its old stink, and I no longer associated with those who flew it after that.
Believe me, nowadays in Alabama the people flying this flag aint flying it for music or a TV character. And it's common. Much more so than in the days of Skynyrd or Dukes of Hazard.
In recent photos, I've also spotted several protesters carrying this flag:

IMG_1187.JPG

I gather it's informally known as the Betsy Ross flag, after a famous seamstress.
Can anyone advise whether it has any particular significance?
 
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blessmycottonsocks

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Betsy Ross, she created the US flag. That design is what it looked like before they added more states/stars.
I understood that and suppose that, it indicates something of a rebellious attitude by not flying the official Stars and Stripes.
Just wondered though whether the Betsy Ross flag is acquiring similar baggage to the Confederate flag?
 
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EnolaGaia

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In recent photos, I've also spotted several protesters carrying this flag:
View attachment 33821
I gather it's informally known as the Betsy Ross flag, after a famous seamstress.
Can anyone advise whether it has any particular significance?
Longstanding popular folklore claimed that Betsy Ross sewed the first flag, sometimes going so far as to suggest she designed it. This is an unproven myth that didn't even surface until about a century after the Revolutionary War.

The 'Betsy Ross flag' was one of the variants on the military standard's specification agreed at the Second Continental Congress in 1777. The 13 stripes and the 13 stars represent the 13 colonies ...

"Resolved, That the flag of the thirteen United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new constellation."
Based on this specification there were multiple interpretations created over the following years. The arrangement of the 13 stars in a circle was one variation (the others arranged them in rows), and this was the version attributed to Betsy Ross. It's almost certainly not the version first flown.

Anyway ... The circle-of-stars variant is the one most popularly associated with the Revolutionary War and the nation's founding. Its display is basically a nod to history and the country's origin, and it's the only historical flag design that's commonly displayed.
 

ChasFink

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... The circle-of-stars variant is the one most popularly associated with the Revolutionary War and the nation's founding. Its display is basically a nod to history and the country's origin, and it's the only historical flag design that's commonly displayed.
This flag is popular with extreme right-wing groups, although it is certainly not exclusive to them, and many Americans still see it as a general symbol of patriotism. The right-wing association probably has to do with a revolutionary spirit and a desire to return to "the way it was".

I believe older flag designs with fewer stars like this one are still considered valid US flags, though I'm not sure if that includes new flags deliberately made with a retro design, or only those that were made when the design was current.
 

Lobeydosser

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Maybe they are wanting to return to just 13 States in the US ?
The Confederate southern cross also has 13 - the original 11 plus 2 that were kind of on both sides (Missouri & Kentucky) - so another 13 (but a different subset of states) something about the number 13 ?
I assume the remaining states either want to rejoin the Empire or perhaps the Osage Nation.
 

Stormkhan

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Seems to me that the modern "rebels" want to fly a flag - any damn flag - other than the stars 'n' stripes but with added appeal should it refer to a time of ferment and revolution.
I'm not convinced that a majority of the extremists know or even give a dime about the true history. It's an image that they're after.
 

EnolaGaia

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... The right-wing association probably has to do with a revolutionary spirit and a desire to return to "the way it was".
... Regardless of how fictitious / mythological that "way" actually was ... There's more than a little irony in having an activist group pushing for a return to a supposedly preferable historical situation while its members routinely demonstrate their ignorance of history (i.e., how things once really were).
 

Stormkhan

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Well ... it's been said ignorance is bliss.
And they follow an administration that almost created the confusion of "alternative truths" and the idea that you shouldn't let facts get in the way of your personal reality.
I think they follow an ideal rather than a historic reality.
 

EnolaGaia

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Seems to me that the modern "rebels" want to fly a flag - any damn flag - other than the stars 'n' stripes but with added appeal should it refer to a time of ferment and revolution. ...
Let's not forget the popularity of the Gadsden flag ("Don't Tread On Me"), which conveys a far more direct message than (e.g.) the 'Betsy Ross' flag.
 

Tigerhawk

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He's had his moment of fame, his hero-worship that he might've desired. His recognition. More than Andy Warhol proclaimed, his image is worldwide and lasting. After that, who cares?

As long as his ego gets fed then he's willing to do anything to maintain that feeding. Whatever happens to him, legally and realistically, from now on feeds his self-worth. If no one else, he sees himself as a martyr.
Yes, but is it being fed organic food?
 

Souleater

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I'm reminded of the media circus that was the O.J Simpson trial (very different circumstances) - after 20 years or so, how many can recall people other than the vaguest details (the lawyers, the weird friend, etc) - people will remember the big details, but the names of assorted weirdos will escape us. The images will last longer than names.
Wasnt OJs lawyer Kim Kardshians dad?
 

Patrick30

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In recent photos, I've also spotted several protesters carrying this flag:

View attachment 33821

I gather it's informally known as the Betsy Ross flag, after a famous seamstress.
Can anyone advise whether it has any particular significance?
I assume it is a lame attempt to co opt the spirit of the American Revolution, Founding Fathers, and all that mythological nonsense here in 2021. Same as the Don’t Tread on Me/Gasden flag.
btw, one woman was trampled to death in the riot while carrying a Don’t Tread on Me flag.
Reality is just too real these days.
 

EnolaGaia

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USAToday's fact checking indicates Greeson was never inside the Capitol, but instead collapsed and died prior to the rioters breaching the Capitol building.

Attorney: Greeson was not tased
Mark McDaniel, an attorney for Greeson's wife, said Greeson died of a heart attack on Capitol grounds, but he did not tase himself.

“Kevin had a history of high blood pressure, and in the midst of the excitement, suffered a heart attack,” his wife, Kristi Greeson, said in a statement to USA TODAY.

She added that her husband was a Trump advocate and he was excited to attend the event, but “he was not there to participate in violence or rioting, nor did he condone such actions.” ...

Kevin Greeson was on the west side of the Capitol talking to his wife on the phone when he fell to the sidewalk, according to a New York Times reporter who witnessed the event. Emergency personnel rushed over but were not able to revive him.
FULL (DEBUNKING) STORY: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...an-capitol-riot-died-heart-attack/6624232002/
 

Mythopoeika

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I could have sworn I posted to this thread and now my post has been deleted.
It was a perfectly valid comment that I made.
 

gordonrutter

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I could have sworn I posted to this thread and now my post has been deleted.
It was a perfectly valid comment that I made.
Gone back as far as Monday and nothing of yours deleted between then and now. There has been a thread spin off from here about conspiracy tangential to this event but not specifically relating to the storming of the Capitol.
 

Mythopoeika

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Gone back as far as Monday and nothing of yours deleted between then and now. There are several Covid threads, perhaps it was on one of the others?
Sorry, thought I'd posted it on this thread - but it was on another thread altogether! Apologies all round.
 
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