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Children's Encounter With Odd Humanoid (Isle Of Wight; May 1973)

With the greatest of respect - for this is an excellent bit of detective work - but, really,I think you are in danger of falling down your own rationalist rabbit hole here.

Here are the problems I have with your hypothesis:

* As you say, the release of the film `That'll Be The Day` was several weeks prior to the girl's* alleged encounter in May 1973. On top of that, there is most often a fairly substantial interim between the shooting of a film and its eventual release - often well over a year - so the film may well have been shot a year or year and a half (plus the several weeks) before the `encounter`. I do take your point that the event of a major filming in that quiet region would have been the cause of a lot of local chatter - but a year or more later and in a way that would interest a seven-year-old girl who would never have seen the film?

* You make a lot of the parallels between the `encounter` (which begins with the retrieval of a book from a river) and one scene in the film. However, in the film scene a schoolboy very deliberately hurls some books, a schoolbag and his cap into the river (and no attempt to retrieve them is made) - whereas in the `encounter` one book is retrieved from the river which had ended up there by accident. Yes, maybe in the filming someone had the job of retrieving the books from the river - but as this would have been well over a year before the alleged encounter and any connection is a real stretch. Throwing books into a river and dropping A book into a river are different acts - and even a seven year old would make the distinction. (This is not to mention the inconvenient fact that - as Otter has pointed out - the locatiion of the filming is not even the same as that of the alleged `encounter)`.

* The `Sandown clown ` connection.
It is worth noting that the witness did not, at any point refer to the entitiy as a `clown`. Indeed, the image she uses is that of a `ghost` - which is altogether a different type of image. The `clown` moniker only started to be employed in retrospect - indeed even the original BUFORA article from January-February 1978 does not make mention of the entity as being a `clown` either. Now itf there is one iconic image that a seven -year-old kid is guaranteed to know, it is that of The Clown and yet the witness did not make use of the word as a description in her witness account.
So to go from that and then to make a connection with a two-dimensional image of a clown's face that appeared on the set of a film released several weeks before is really pushing things. Clowns are a common feature of fairground art - but this was not even real fiargound art, but a mock-up desiigned to look like an artefact from the nineteen fifties! Also I repeat, aagain, Fay did not even make reference to any `clowns` in her original story.

Sorry mate.

* We talk of `witnesses` in the plural - but the boy is a shadowy figure at best. We have no name or age and his only role seems to be to `confirm` the encounter - whatever that means. I think we have to be honest and admit that there is really only one known witness - a seven year-ol-girl called Fay.
Thanks for the detailed reply, no offence taken...! It is great to have this analysis of such an intriguing case from different viewpoints. Yes, it all happened back in the 1970s but I find it astonishing how many references there are to this case online and even Sam products to buy online. Ultimately, this is as much about the high-strangeness of the 1970s that's seems to have been off the scale as what two young children reported one May afternoon half a century ago.

My understanding is that filming on location was in October 1972 and the encounter with Sam took place in May 1973, so less than a year later, however I will double-check this.

Edit:
https://retronewser.com/2022/10/23/...tll-be-the-day-feature-film-on-isle-of-wight/

Filming took place on the island from October 1972 to December 1972 and the film premiered in the UK in early April 1973. The Sam encounter was in the third week of May 1973
 
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We know nothing about the children such as their personalities and family life.

I am still stuck on the fact that the loud noise that called the children was described by the children as the noise of an ambulance.

I would think someone would have responded ?
 
We know nothing about the children such as their personalities and family life.

I am still stuck on the fact that the loud noise that called the children was described by the children as the noise of an ambulance.

I would think someone would have responded ?
Unless it was only audible to the witnesses, as sometimes happens in ghost encounters.
 
With the greatest of respect - for this is an excellent bit of detective work - but, really,I think you are in danger of falling down your own rationalist rabbit hole here.

Here are the problems I have with your hypothesis:

* As you say, the release of the film `That'll Be The Day` was several weeks prior to the girl's* alleged encounter in May 1973. On top of that, there is most often a fairly substantial interim between the shooting of a film and its eventual release - often well over a year - so the film may well have been shot a year or year and a half (plus the several weeks) before the `encounter`. I do take your point that the event of a major filming in that quiet region would have been the cause of a lot of local chatter - but a year or more later and in a way that would interest a seven-year-old girl who would never have seen the film?

* You make a lot of the parallels between the `encounter` (which begins with the retrieval of a book from a river) and one scene in the film. However, in the film scene a schoolboy very deliberately hurls some books, a schoolbag and his cap into the river (and no attempt to retrieve them is made) - whereas in the `encounter` one book is retrieved from the river which had ended up there by accident. Yes, maybe in the filming someone had the job of retrieving the books from the river - but as this would have been well over a year before the alleged encounter and any connection is a real stretch. Throwing books into a river and dropping A book into a river are different acts - and even a seven year old would make the distinction. (This is not to mention the inconvenient fact that - as Otter has pointed out - the locatiion of the filming is not even the same as that of the alleged `encounter)`.

* The `Sandown clown ` connection.
It is worth noting that the witness did not, at any point refer to the entitiy as a `clown`. Indeed, the image she uses is that of a `ghost` - which is altogether a different type of image. The `clown` moniker only started to be employed in retrospect - indeed even the original BUFORA article from January-February 1978 does not make mention of the entity as being a `clown` either. Now itf there is one iconic image that a seven -year-old kid is guaranteed to know, it is that of The Clown and yet the witness did not make use of the word as a description in her witness account.
So to go from that and then to make a connection with a two-dimensional image of a clown's face that appeared on the set of a film released several weeks before is really pushing things. Clowns are a common feature of fairground art - but this was not even real fiargound art, but a mock-up desiigned to look like an artefact from the nineteen fifties! Also I repeat, aagain, Fay did not even make reference to any `clowns` in her original story.

Sorry mate.

* We talk of `witnesses` in the plural - but the boy is a shadowy figure at best. We have no name or age and his only role seems to be to `confirm` the encounter - whatever that means. I think we have to be honest and admit that there is really only one known witness - a seven year-ol-girl called Fay.
As I have posted above, the filming on location took place just six months prior to the movie being released. Having a Beatle on the island would have been huge at that time, especially as they ere still going through the breaking-up process, and we have archived local news reports that reflect this.

I agree that most of this would have been peripheral to the young girl's world, however my theory is that an older person talked to her about the filming and the movie itself. This may have been her parents but also could have been a relatives or even a starstruck teenage baby-sitter. Then I would suggest that at some point she was driven or crossed the bridge in question on foot or bicycle during which she was told about the scene in which the books ended up in the river below (note the first book was dropped by the boy rather than being chucked like the rest). She then also visited the popular funfair with the crazy golf (that is still in existence albeit at a new location now). Whist there she saw th clown, the little huts and heard the wailing ambulance-like siren from the dodgems.

All of this was in her memory when she then found herself at Lake Common, a short walk from the bridge in the film. She may even have crossed the film scene bridge on her way there. She related all this to the young boy and their childish imaginations invented Sam, but not as a crazy golf clown but ghost-like character with a body, clothes and who could talk and walk and lived in a hut..Either this or a vivid dream that was later remembered as a memory.

This is only a theory but there are remarkable coincidences between aspects of the movie and the Sam narrative and it is certainly worth putting these into the mix. For me one of the most telling is that Sam was eating berries in May, yet here was a 'creature' who drank water from the river and is most unlikely to have popped to the shops. Even a seven-year-old knows that wild berries are picked in the Autumn when they are fruiting and ripe. This to me suggests her experience is not from one May afternoon but a composite of different experiences/memories bought together into one story.

That said, nothing would make me happier than for 'Fay' to come forward now and insist it was a real experience.
 
Tom Slemen has a clown-like entity living in a hut encountered by three children in Sefton Park, Liverpool back in the 1950s. Unusually for Slemen the principal witness has a full name and we know the street in which she lived:

"Simon and the girls walked along complaining about his heavy-handed tactics, but when they saw the pointy gabled house standing exactly where Simon said it would be, they smiled and wondered if anyone lived there.

There was a red front door and two oval windows above it. ‘Shall I knock and see if anyone answers?’ Simon asked with a mischievous grin.

But the red door suddenly opened – and out came a man in an outlandish clown costume, with a pointed hat and ruffled lace collar.

His face was white as snow and he had black, x-shaped eyes."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/tom-slemens-spooky-summer-sinister-7628463

Some clear parallels but unfortunately I'm having genuine, non-prejudicial doubts about the veracity of much of what Mr Slemen has written, it would be great to hear from him.
 
Tom Slemen has a clown-like entity living in a hut encountered by three children in Sefton Park, Liverpool back in the 1950s. Unusually for Slemen the principal witness has a full name and we know the street in which she lived:

"Simon and the girls walked along complaining about his heavy-handed tactics, but when they saw the pointy gabled house standing exactly where Simon said it would be, they smiled and wondered if anyone lived there.

There was a red front door and two oval windows above it.

Sefton-Park-Palm-House-Fortean.jpg


A 300-yard circle around the Palm House today.

The Fairy Glen (inside the 300-yard circle above) sounded promising, but it seems to be simply a garden area with no buildings/dwellings. It features an iron bridge with an attached ghost story, but I see no parallels with the sinister clown tale from Slemen.

Palm-House-300-yards-01.jpg


Roughly the same area from a contemporary 1:25,000 OS map
.

maximus otter
 
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Sefton-Park-Palm-House-Fortean.jpg


A 300-yard circle around the Palm House today.

The Fairy Glen (inside the 300-yard circle above) sounded promising, but it seems to be simply a garden area with no buildings/dwellings. It features an iron bridge with an attached ghost story, but I see no parallels with the sinister clown tale from Slemen.

Palm-House-300-yards-01.jpg


Roughly the same area from a contemporary 1:25,000 OS map
.

maximus otter
There is something here in an earlier more detailed map.
seft.png
 
As I have posted above, the filming on location took place just six months prior to the movie being released. Having a Beatle on the island would have been huge at that time, especially as they ere still going through the breaking-up process, and we have archived local news reports that reflect this.

I agree that most of this would have been peripheral to the young girl's world, however my theory is that an older person talked to her about the filming and the movie itself. This may have been her parents but also could have been a relatives or even a starstruck teenage baby-sitter. Then I would suggest that at some point she was driven or crossed the bridge in question on foot or bicycle during which she was told about the scene in which the books ended up in the river below (note the first book was dropped by the boy rather than being chucked like the rest). She then also visited the popular funfair with the crazy golf (that is still in existence albeit at a new location now). Whist there she saw th clown, the little huts and heard the wailing ambulance-like siren from the dodgems.

All of this was in her memory when she then found herself at Lake Common, a short walk from the bridge in the film. She may even have crossed the film scene bridge on her way there. She related all this to the young boy and their childish imaginations invented Sam, but not as a crazy golf clown but ghost-like character with a body, clothes and who could talk and walk and lived in a hut..Either this or a vivid dream that was later remembered as a memory.

This is only a theory but there are remarkable coincidences between aspects of the movie and the Sam narrative and it is certainly worth putting these into the mix. For me one of the most telling is that Sam was eating berries in May, yet here was a 'creature' who drank water from the river and is most unlikely to have popped to the shops. Even a seven-year-old knows that wild berries are picked in the Autumn when they are fruiting and ripe. This to me suggests her experience is not from one May afternoon but a composite of different experiences/memories bought together into one story.

That said, nothing would make me happier than for 'Fay' to come forward now and insist it was a real experience.
I still think she dreamed it, from a mishmash of images seen (I would expect stills from the film and from the entire filming experience to have been in the local newspapers quite frequently, possibly even on the local news, which would be enough to have settled into memory and be reconstituted after a visit to the site). She may even have told her dad it was a dream, but he, with his UFO experience, may not have wanted to hear that it was a dream and taken it as a real event. Then Fay, not wanting to contradict Dad, also enters into the 'it was a real thing', her friend gets drawn in too, and so it 'becomes' a real event.
 
Children can find clowns terrifying, corny, silly, or funny. They wouldn't be 'baffled' by them, surely?
This has probably been suggested before but, what if the 'clown' description is the closest they can relate to when describing an 'otherworldly' entity. Heck, a lot of adults do - "He looked like a clown" rather than "He was very pale, with thick red lips and huge eyes."
 
The writer and actress Daisy May Cooper mentioned Sam the Sandown Clown during her interview with Adam Buxton on his eponymous podcast recently; the first time I've heard it mentioned in a mainstream (well, as mainstream as an interview on a podcast hosted by a 90s comedian gets, I suppose) setting.
 
The writer and actress Daisy May Cooper mentioned Sam the Sandown Clown during her interview with Adam Buxton on his eponymous podcast recently; the first time I've heard it mentioned in a mainstream (well, as mainstream as an interview on a podcast hosted by a 90s comedian gets, I suppose) setting.
Crikey, she must quite into Forteana to know this case, or perhaps a visitor to these pages?

@eziofan Yes, we have explored this earlier in the thread, it is a good match (or inspiration). Also that this was the advent of colour tv and the creature is referred to as "all colours".
 
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Crikey, she must quite into Forteana to know this case, or perhaps a visitor to these pages?

@eziofan Yes, we have explored this earlier in the thread, it is a good match (or inspiration). Also that this was the advent of colour tv and the creature is referred to as "all colours".

I think she’s very into all things Forteana, the discussion is right at the top of the podcast and she goes into quite a bit of detail.

She was also the guest on the Christmas episode of Uncanny, although I’m yet to listen to that.
 
I think she’s very into all things Forteana, the discussion is right at the top of the podcast and she goes into quite a bit of detail.

She was also the guest on the Christmas episode of Uncanny, although I’m yet to listen to that.
I've been watching some of her tv work that she also wrote (This Country, Am I Being Unreasonable?) and she slips in a few Fortean goings-on albeit with a comedic twist. For in example, in 'Steam Fair' (This Country) the woods are the home of the Fox Twins that are human/fox hybrids that scream and howl and prey upon farmer's livestock, so shades of Cannock Chase cryptids there. In fact, the ghost of the Civil War cavalier who doffs his cap and the housekeeper who thinks she is a medium and sees a Roman soldier are both mentioned in her 'Uncanny' episode and also appear in her tv scripts.

I've also convinced myself she is a lurker here, hi Daisy...!
 
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The writer and actress Daisy May Cooper mentioned Sam the Sandown Clown during her interview with Adam Buxton on his eponymous podcast recently; the first time I've heard it mentioned in a mainstream (well, as mainstream as an interview on a podcast hosted by a 90s comedian gets, I suppose) setting.

Crikey, she must quite into Forteana to know this case, or perhaps a visitor to these pages?

I've been watching some of her tv work that she also wrote (This Country, Am I Being Unreasonable?) and she slips in a few Fortean goings-on albeit with a comedic twist. For in example, in 'Steam Fair' (This Country) the woods are the home of the Fox Twins that are human/fox hybrids that scream and howl and prey upon farmer's livestock, so shades of Cannock Chase cryptids there. In fact, the ghost of the Civil War cavalier who doffs his cap and the housekeeper who thinks she is a medium and sees a Roman soldier are both mentioned in her 'Uncanny' episode and also appear in her tv scripts.

I've also convinced myself she is a lurker here, hi Daisy...!

Despite appearances, I didn't actually start this thread myself as the first post was split out from another topic but the thought that Daisy May Cooper might have read something that I wrote about a relatively obscure Fortean incident is genuinely quite thrilling. I really enjoyed This Country and The Witchfinder, I think she's very funny and a great actor.
 
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