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Chinese Communist Party Using Agents Provocateurs?

blessmycottonsocks

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
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Wessex and Mercia
Just watching the mass pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong on the 18:00 news.

Seems to be turning quite ugly, with riot police baton charging and firing tear-gas at the umbrella-holding protestors.

Rumours abound (according to Sky News anyway) that the Chinese Communist regime is using agents provocateurs posing as pro-democracy activists, to discredit them by instigating violence.

30 years after the Tiananmen Square massacre, there's an awful feeling of déjà vu about all this.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Just watching the mass pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong on the 18:00 news.

Seems to be turning quite ugly, with riot police baton charging and firing tear-gas at the umbrella-holding protestors.

Rumours abound (according to Sky News anyway) that the Chinese Communist regime is using agents provocateurs posing as pro-democracy activists, to discredit them by instigating violence.
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It wouldn’t surprise me...there have been a few unsavoury characters loitering outside the towns Chinese take out. Today Hong Kong, tomorrow Essex.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
... Rumours abound (according to Sky News anyway) that the Chinese Communist regime is using agents provocateurs posing as pro-democracy activists, to discredit them by instigating violence. ...
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It's a well-known and longstanding approach to undermining popular dissent. If anything, I'd be surprised to learn the Powers That Be weren't doing this or some similar dirty tricks.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Just watching the mass pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong on the 18:00 news.

Seems to be turning quite ugly, with riot police baton charging and firing tear-gas at the umbrella-holding protestors.

Rumours abound (according to Sky News anyway) that the Chinese Communist regime is using agents provocateurs posing as pro-democracy activists, to discredit them by instigating violence.

30 years after the Tiananmen Square massacre, there's an awful feeling of déjà vu about all this.
Click to expand...

Now isn't that the strangest thing.

I watched it from about half an hour before the police moved in, until about half an hour afterward.

And didn't see ANY police baton charges. just a bit of tear gas thrown.

All very restrained.

The mainland Chinese would have shut them down much sooner and in a more 'positive' way.

But we must not wander into the politics minefield.
 
If mainland China get involved it will all end in tears and the demonstrators will have a long time to reflect on the repercussions of their actions.
 
Possibly from a 'work and rehabilitation centre' somewhere close to the Mongolian border. It's what happens when youth is allowed to forget the past.
 
Evidence of a setup? In the video the guy says something like 'at 9pm today, the legco building was breached', but according to his watch, it the statement was filmed at 5pm. Indicating a pre-knowledge of the event and the time at which it took place...
qfrwtysdiq731.jpg


At 5pm (screencap), they recorded this video saying that Legco has already been breached and the police will begin an operation to empty it of protestors.

Legco was breached at 9pm, the video was released at 930 pm.

They allowed protestors to breach into legco, hence why it was unprotected.
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Source
 
James_H said:
Evidence of a setup? In the video the guy says something like 'at 9pm today, the legco building was breached', but according to his watch, it the statement was filmed at 5pm. Indicating a pre-knowledge of the event and the time at which it took place...
qfrwtysdiq731.jpg




Source
Click to expand...
The police have dropped the watches in their videos, for some reason:

5687v6411w731.jpg


For the record, and at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I do believe this action was undertaken by Agents provocateurs so as to give Beijing the mandate to do whatever they like in the coming months. They already have form for exaggerating violence and characterise Hong Kongers in the Chinese media as unruly, uncouth and dangerous (nothing could be further from the truth - Hong Kong protestors must be the most polite and restrained anywhere in the world). If they have some 'evidence' to back up the claim they have the excuse to potentially use force in return, make arrests of 'troublemakers', what have you.

On another note, the protestors at the LegCo hoisted the colonial flag of Hong Kong. I have a hard time believing that politically dedicated Hong Kongers would do this. However, seen from the POV of a 'false flag' (see what I did there?) operation, it feeds very nicely into the image that Beijing wants to project of the whole democracy movement being seeded by Western powers (as to how close this is to the truth, well, nearly 1/3 of Hong Kong's entire population was on the street during one march this past month. That's like 20 million people on a single march in the UK. So it's not just a few CIA-funded bad apples.)
 
James_H said:
nearly 1/3 of Hong Kong's entire population was on the street during one march this past month.
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Well, what else are you going to do, the porn sites are shutting down and telling people to go protest.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/politi...t-down-in-support-of-protests-extradition-law

--------------------------------------------------
Porn sites in Hong Kong temporarily shut down on Wednesday (June 12) to encourage users to go out and join huge protests in the city.
....
On Tuesday evening, adult sites AV01 and ThisAV showed their support of protests by publishing messages on their homepages urging users to go out and join the demonstrations. ThisAV called on people to attend the “life and death” protests instead of “playing” on the internet, while AV01 wrote: “The government has failed you, the system has failed you, the society has failed you, do you want to fail yourself?”
 
On R4 this morning it was reported that a small gang spent 4 HOURS breaking into the building & police were inside watching. When they eventually got in, the police disappeared..

The protests up to now seem to have been extremely peaceful - the people must be aware that anything violent gives the Chinese all the reason they need to steam in heavy handed.

Chinese agents provocateurs seems highly likely.
 
James_H said:
The police have dropped the watches in their videos, for some reason:

5687v6411w731.jpg


For the record, and at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I do believe this action was undertaken by Agents provocateurs so as to give Beijing the mandate to do whatever they like in the coming months. They already have form for exaggerating violence and characterise Hong Kongers in the Chinese media as unruly, uncouth and dangerous (nothing could be further from the truth - Hong Kong protestors must be the most polite and restrained anywhere in the world). If they have some 'evidence' to back up the claim they have the excuse to potentially use force in return, make arrests of 'troublemakers', what have you.

On another note, the protestors at the LegCo hoisted the colonial flag of Hong Kong. I have a hard time believing that politically dedicated Hong Kongers would do this. However, seen from the POV of a 'false flag' (see what I did there?) operation, it feeds very nicely into the image that Beijing wants to project of the whole democracy movement being seeded by Western powers (as to how close this is to the truth, well, nearly 1/3 of Hong Kong's entire population was on the street during one march this past month. That's like 20 million people on a single march in the UK. So it's not just a few CIA-funded bad apples.)
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I agree with your points. I would not feel at all comfortable expressing them if I were living in the fascist state itself. You're a brave man. I applaud your courage.
 
skinny said:
I agree with your points. I would not feel at all comfortable expressing them if I were living in the fascist state itself. You're a brave man. I applaud your courage.
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Thanks! At present I don't think repercussions against free speech are common in Hong Kong - only in example cases like the anti Communist booksellers and the head of the foreign correspondents club being denied a visa. As it stands millions of people feel quite free to criticise the government on Facebook etc. The situation is quite different on the mainland, of course.

However, who knows what the future holds and perhaps I should be smart and not shoot my mouth off about the government....
 
Durr of course. I also forget you're in Honkers not Mainland. Yes, the state would be watching possibly all the western foreigners on the continent, but there'd be too many on the islands.

So you're not as brave as I thought. haha :sombrero:
 
^ Looks to be a very westward issue - probably to monitor the Uyger separatists who have been peppering the country with reminders that they want to return to their independence right now.
 
Re Chinese agents provocateurs,

Here's a contrary report which says it was young Hong Kongers who broke into the LegCo building. Quotes from some of those present.

“Our action might not be useful but it is symbolic,” one young father told a reporter in video footage. “We know we might get eight or 10 years for doing this, but I grew up here, I love the freedoms and the dignified life and I don’t want to lose them.”

“Actually we are really afraid of being arrested, but we want to let the world and the government know that we won’t give in so easily,” said a man in his 20s who entered the parliament building on Monday night. He did not want to identified.
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Not to say they can't be Chinese agents as well..
 
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