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Coffin Shapes

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Fortea Morgana :) PeteByrdie certificated Princess
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I am listening to The Warder of the Door Meade LT, Eustace R 1897

It describes a wedge-shaped coffin studded with iron nails. I'm having trouble picturing this (the wedge not the nails). It holds the remains of a C14 Abbot.

What does it make you think of? Is it the name for a specific style of coffin? Does the carefully specified shape add to the horror somehow?
 
The first I can think of is that he might be describing a rectangular coffin that is taller at the head than the feet. I can picture it but I'm not sure if I've ever seen one.

I then did an image search of 14th century coffins and this was the first result: arguably wedge-shaped.

800px-14th_century_coffin_lid%2C_Sturminster_Marshall.jpg


(source)
 
That would work. only in wood rather than stone? Does one ever nail stone?
 
oooh! further details:

the ghastly coffin
queer misshapen thing
shape on an enormous wedge
dark old wood
bound with iron at the corners

:D
 
The first I can think of is that he might be describing a rectangular coffin that is taller at the head than the feet. I can picture it but I'm not sure if I've ever seen one.

I then did an image search of 14th century coffins and this was the first result: arguably wedge-shaped.

800px-14th_century_coffin_lid%2C_Sturminster_Marshall.jpg


(source)

That's what I thought of too.
 
... I then did an image search of 14th century coffins and this was the first result: arguably wedge-shaped. ...

Yes, that's it (according to Wikipedia):

Coffins are traditionally made with six sides plus the top (lid) and bottom, tapered around the shoulders, or rectangular with four sides. Another form of four-sided coffin is trapezoidal (also known as the "wedge" form) and is considered a variant of the six-sided hexagonal kind of coffin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin
 
Wassat then?
Blackadder:
This is the Jane Harrington?
Percy:
Yes.
Blackadder:
Jane "Bury Me in a Y-Shaped Coffin" Harrington?
Percy:
I think there may be two Jane Harringtons -
Blackadder:
No, no... Tall, blonde, elegant.?
Percy:
Yes, that's her.
Blackadder:
Goes like a privy door when the plague's in town? Come on, get on with your shot. You'll get over her. [pause] I did. [another pause] So did Baldrick, actually.
 
Blackadder:
This is the Jane Harrington?
Percy:
Yes.
Blackadder:
Jane "Bury Me in a Y-Shaped Coffin" Harrington?
Percy:
I think there may be two Jane Harringtons -
Blackadder:
No, no... Tall, blonde, elegant.?
Percy:
Yes, that's her.
Blackadder:
Goes like a privy door when the plague's in town? Come on, get on with your shot. You'll get over her. [pause] I did. [another pause] So did Baldrick, actually.

The Y-shaped coffin joke is not original. It goes back to Joe Orton's 1969 play What The Butler Saw and refers to the character Mrs Prentice. The expression is used to dismiss her claim of attempted sexual violence against her.
 
The Y-shaped coffin joke is not original. It goes back to Joe Orton's 1969 play What The Butler Saw and refers to the character Mrs Prentice. The expression is used to dismiss her claim of attempted sexual violence against her.
I was just quoting what was posted in @LymeswoldSnork post which was quoting 'Blackadder' which probably was influenced by Ortons play lol
 
I was just quoting what was posted in @LymeswoldSnork post which was quoting 'Blackadder' which probably was influenced by Ortons play lol

I know! :chuckle:
I wasn't getting at you.

The joke was still going around in the '70s when it was seen in ragmags, those venerable collections of culturally sensitive wit.

In about 1972 I was just old enough to get some of the less filthy allusions and that was one of them.
(I still don't understand the cartoons where a man would lustily approach a woman's crotch with a tablespoon.)

The joke has a serious context in the play. Orton's point was that a woman's suitability to be seen as a victim of sexual violence was dependent on her reputation. The thinking was that a woman seen as promiscuous or of even faintly 'easy' virtue could not be raped because she would not have said 'no'.

He was of course really talking about homophobia and gay-bashing. Such a genius, taken too soon.
 
I know! :chuckle:
I wasn't getting at you.

The joke was still going around in the '70s when it was seen in ragmags, those venerable collections of culturally sensitive wit.

In about 1972 I was just old enough to get some of the less filthy allusions and that was one of them.
(I still don't understand the cartoons where a man would lustily approach a woman's crotch with a tablespoon.)

The joke has a serious context in the play. Orton's point was that a woman's suitability to be seen as a victim of sexual violence was dependent on her reputation. The thinking was that a woman seen as promiscuous or of even faintly 'easy' virtue could not be raped because she would not have said 'no'.

He was of course really talking about homophobia and gay-bashing. Such a genius, taken too soon.
Its ok i didnt take any offence :p
 
From a carpentry point of view, the wedge shape would be more straightforward to construct than the lozenge pattern – essentially, because there are less joints.

The more obtuse the angle the more complex it is to make any traditional joint beyond a basic butt joint - which I suspect would not last very long at all in the conditions coffins were likely to be used. The shoulder bulge forms the most obtuse angle on a lozenge shaped coffin - bypassing the necessity of constructing these effectively swerves not just two makes, but the two most time consuming makes in the jointing process of the more complex design.

These days commercial examples of the more recognisably modern six-sided lozenge pattern are actually usually jointless at the shoulder bulge which must mean that the side panels are steamed into shape - a relatively complex process, and one which was probably not anywhere near as easy to achieve in medieval times. (I have no doubt that woodworkers have known about the steam-bending process since forever - but I’m not sure how practical or economically viable it would have been for common use in medieval or early modern times.)

Looking at the modern oblong casket shape - the other most common pattern - there are clear advantages to the wedge shape over this in terms of on economy of materials. The wedge and casket might be the same dimensions at the broadest cross section, but in following the very basic tapering shape of the human body the wedge reduces the surface area of timber needed; even more so if the shape tapers down towards the feet at the side elevation, as well as when viewed top down (I can’t find visual confirmation of this.)
 
From a carpentry point of view, the wedge shape would be more straightforward to construct than the lozenge pattern – essentially, because there are less joints.

The more obtuse the angle the more complex it is to make any traditional joint beyond a basic butt joint - which I suspect would not last very long at all in the conditions coffins were likely to be used. The shoulder bulge forms the most obtuse angle on a lozenge shaped coffin - bypassing the necessity of constructing these effectively swerves not just two makes, but the two most time consuming makes in the jointing process of the more complex design.

These days commercial examples of the more recognisably modern six-sided lozenge pattern are actually usually jointless at the shoulder bulge which must mean that the side panels are steamed into shape - a relatively complex process, and one which was probably not anywhere near as easy to achieve in medieval times. (I have no doubt that woodworkers have known about the steam-bending process since forever - but I’m not sure how practical or economically viable it would have been for common use in medieval or early modern times.)

Looking at the modern oblong casket shape - the other most common pattern - there are clear advantages to the wedge shape over this in terms of on economy of materials. The wedge and casket might be the same dimensions at the broadest cross section, but in following the very basic tapering shape of the human body the wedge reduces the surface area of timber needed; even more so if the shape tapers down towards the feet at the side elevation, as well as when viewed top down (I can’t find visual confirmation of this.)
There are pretty much 2 standard shapes of coffins used in the west, the oblong,
The-Windsor-MAHOGANY-Casket.jpg


and the tapered
Canterbury-1.jpg
 
I do like this one though

View attachment 35206
That's a fantastic coffin. But I'd get a titanium one, just in case my family try to cremate me to atone for my sins for being a Witch. I should never have given my Aunty my current address The local Jehovah Witness Hall has sent me a letter inviting to do online things. They have a very large library i think in America on all sorts of subjects i would like to visit that. The knowledge there on those shelves. The JWs are actually quite sweet they don't point a finger at you and say sinner. I like Mormons as well. The rock stars of religion. But yes definitely titanium coffin for me I've always opposed cremations because of this movie i saw as a kid. God messes up and somebody dies when they shouldn't of have and they can't put him back in his body because it was cremated.
 
That's a fantastic coffin. But I'd get a titanium one, just in case my family try to cremate me to atone for my sins for being a Witch. I should never have given my Aunty my current address The local Jehovah Witness Hall has sent me a letter inviting to do online things. They have a very large library i think in America on all sorts of subjects i would like to visit that. The knowledge there on those shelves. The JWs are actually quite sweet they don't point a finger at you and say sinner. I like Mormons as well. The rock stars of religion. But yes definitely titanium coffin for me I've always opposed cremations because of this movie i saw as a kid. God messes up and somebody dies when they shouldn't of have and they can't put him back in his body because it was cremated.
Cant find any links for titanium coffins, id imagine you could have one made but it would be expensive, you could go for steel

https://www.google.com/search?q=tit...UpQEEAHfHLBgkQ_AUImwIoAg#imgrc=lvpsDJ2VrxrJeM
 
That's a fantastic coffin. But I'd get a titanium one, just in case my family try to cremate me to atone for my sins for being a Witch. I should never have given my Aunty my current address The local Jehovah Witness Hall has sent me a letter inviting to do online things. They have a very large library i think in America on all sorts of subjects i would like to visit that. The knowledge there on those shelves. The JWs are actually quite sweet they don't point a finger at you and say sinner. I like Mormons as well. The rock stars of religion. But yes definitely titanium coffin for me I've always opposed cremations because of this movie i saw as a kid. God messes up and somebody dies when they shouldn't of have and they can't put him back in his body because it was cremated.
I would imagine if, like in the film, god made a mistake, your body would still be in a metal coffin 6 feet under when god put you back in your body though :(
 
I am listening to The Warder of the Door Meade LT, Eustace R 1897

It describes a wedge-shaped coffin studded with iron nails. I'm having trouble picturing this (the wedge not the nails). It holds the remains of a C14 Abbot...

Re the iron nails.

Nails with broad heads were sometime used for protection (rather than as fixings for joining one thing to another): technically - in these cases - one might describe them as studs rather than nails.

Coffins placed in tombs, rather than buried in soil, were placed on floors or stone shelves, or each other. They were also, in the case of communal tombs, occasionally moved around to accommodate later residents.

Those broad headed nails could act as stud feet which would protect the timber boards from the wear and tear involved in being dragged around. They would also lift the body of the coffin away from the surface on which it rested, ensuring some airflow – which could help prevent rot.
 
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