Consciousness Continuing After Beheading / Decapitation

And don't forget the murder victim, who probably ALSO knew they were going to die/ or knew they were dying, in far worse circumstances!!!!!!
 
I didn't say I disapprovd, I just said I wouldn't like it much!
 
If you have to go by such a method, rather the clean fall of the guillotine than the inexact sweep of the sword, as befell the Countess of Salisbury, who was executed within the precincts of the Tower of London in 1541. The first strike failed to separate her head, and she underwent the horror of awaiting the finally fatal blow.:cross eye

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09656b.htm
 
David said:
And don't forget the murder victim, who probably ALSO knew they were going to die/ or knew they were dying, in far worse circumstances!!!!!!
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I thought that during the French Revolution people were executed as they were members of the elite rather than because of murder? My historys a bit rough on this period so feel free to correct me.
 
Before & after the French Revolution, people were executed for social crimes & crimes against the state, during the Revolution you could also be 'chopped' for these & almost anything else, i.e. someone in power didn't like you!!!!!
 
I think I mentioned on another thread about Peter Kurten, the Vampire of Dusseldorf, who was guillotined in 1931 (?) Apparently, he asked the doctor attending him whether he would be able to hear the blood spurting from his neck after being guillotined. He said something like 'that would be the ultimate pleasure' even if it only lasted for a split second.

Yes, I believe it is documented in some cases for hanged men to ejaculate at the point of death. I think there is some charm or spell using the earth the dead man's sperm mixes with. I can't remember what the spell is for. I believe it depends on whether they die immediately from a broken neck, or slowly asphyxiate.

I seem to remember that the guillotine wasn't quite so efficient as we would like to believe. IIRC it would start the day sharp, but quickly become blunt, so if you were going to lose your head, best have it done first (that was no time for Immortals to be in Paris!). I thought it took a few blows to remove Marie Antoinette's head. I also thought it took several blows to remove Anne Boleyn's head with the sword, and Mary Queen of Scots, and Charles I. Or at least one of them....

And what about all those mediaeval saints having their heads lopped off then walking to the spring/church/altar before dying? And there's Bran, who had his head lopped off and carried to London, talking all the while, to protect England, according to Celtic legend. Mind you, if you want to talk head hunting legends etc, the Celts are a good place to start.
 
Weird old decapitation story

From this article: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/02/35725.html

In 1336, King Ludwig of Bavaria sentenced nobleman Ditz von Shaunburg and four of his associates to death. They were sentenced to death for rebelling against His Majesty and for disturbing the peace in the kingdom. The nobleman and his friends were to be beheaded. Before the execution, the king asked Ditz to express his final wish. The nobleman asked the king to forgive his friends if his beheaded body runs by them. Schaunburg specified that the convicted were supposed to get in a line with eight steps between each other. The king burst into laughter, but he promised to fulfill the nobleman’s last wish. Ditz got down on his knees in front of a block. The executioner cut his head off, but the body jumped up and ran by the other convicted people to the immense horror of the king and everyone who witnessed it. The beheaded body made 32 steps, having passed the last person in the line, tumbled down to the ground, and remained quiet. The king kept his promise.

I'm a tad skeptical. Anyone know more about this story?
 
Whoaaaa...........

I will surely see that headless body running along my upstairs hall next time nature calls at night.
Better buy a potty.......
 
The commander of the group, a lieutenant, stepped on a mine. One of its fragments chopped his head off. Yet, the beheaded lieutenant remained standing, he unbuttoned his coat, took the map of their itinerary out, held it out to Luchnik, and then fell down on the grass.
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How did the mine neatly blow off his head while leaving the rest of him undamaged?
 
Just deleted my post which, due to me being inattentive, was a repeat of the post that started this thread...doh!

'pologies for the contribution being a redundant echo.

I promise to pay more attention next time...
 
Annasdottir said:
How did the mine neatly blow off his head while leaving the rest of him undamaged?
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There is a type of landmine, I think called a frog, that when activated will spring up out of the ground and detonate itself at about waist height depending on how tall the unlucky victim happens to be.
Maybe it had a stronger spring in it?
 
River_Styx said:
There is a type of landmine, I think called a frog, that when activated will spring up out of the ground and detonate itself at about waist height depending on how tall the unlucky victim happens to be.
Maybe it had a stronger spring in it?
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Mmmm friendly that...

I can get the idea of a decapitated head being "alive" but the body ...?
 
i remember reading a story about some nobleman decapitated during the French Revolution. Apparently when they picked the head up out of the basket and said the guys name, it's eyes opened!!
Cell memory perhaps?
 
There's been some conjecture on this subject before, relating to a 'locked room' murder case involving a head wound which should have been instantly fatal. With some precedence, Colin Wilson (I think) argued that victims of such injury can sometimes go on for as long as an hour with more then half the brain gone. Dunno about an entire head though. And how did he know it was going to happen? What was he, Amazo the Chicken Man?
 
Bump! Two threads merged.

And Pravda's on the case again: a long piece, which includes the King Ludwig story given earlier along with others.
 
Don't lose your head!

This reminds me of an excellent, if slightly spooky question about beheading in the New Scientist's Last Word section - Does beheading hurt? And, if so, for how long is the severed head aware of its plight?

One quote from the answers put forward ...


A particularly detailed report comes from Dr Beaurieux who, under perfect circumstances, experimented with the head of the murderer Languille, guillotined at 5.30 am on 28 June, 1905. (From A History of the Guillotine by Alister Kershaw. His source is Archives d'Anthropologie Criminelle, 1905):

"Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds . . . I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead. It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions . . . Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves . . . After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.

"It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

"I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds."

):
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Re: Don't lose your head!

Dr Poo said:
This reminds me of an excellent, if slightly spooky question about beheading in the New Scientist's Last Word section - Does beheading hurt? And, if so, for how long is the severed head aware of its plight?

One quote from the answers put forward ...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A particularly detailed report comes from Dr Beaurieux who, under perfect circumstances, experimented with the head of the murderer Languille, guillotined at 5.30 am on 28 June, 1905. (From A History of the Guillotine by Alister Kershaw. His source is Archives d'Anthropologie Criminelle, 1905):

"Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds . . . I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead. It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions . . . Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves . . . After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.

"It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

"I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds."
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Have just read that and it sent shivers down my spine. Good job I am in a crowded room :eek:
 
Anonymous said:
Don't lose your head!

This reminds me of an excellent, if slightly spooky question about beheading in the New Scientist's Last Word section - Does beheading hurt? And, if so, for how long is the severed head aware of its plight?

One quote from the answers put forward ...
Click to expand...

I can't cite a source for this. All I can recall is that I read it many years ago and at the time I regarded the source as factually reliable.

There was some tribe that punished certain types of criminal by beheading. They would bend a springy sapling and attach a rope to it and tie the rope around the condemned person's head. When they cut the head off, this released the tension on the rope and the head was lifted off the body by the sapling springing back upright. This was supposedly intended to be a kindness because they believed that the decapitated person's last sensation would be of flying towards whatever "heaven" their culture had.

I put it here as something that may or may not be true, but ought to be! Maybe someone here has come across the same story and can either vouch for it or refute it.
 
Mikefule said:
... There was some tribe that punished certain types of criminal by beheading. They would bend a springy sapling and attach a rope to it and tie the rope around the condemned person's head. When they cut the head off, this released the tension on the rope and the head was lifted off the body by the sapling springing back upright. This was supposedly intended to be a kindness because they believed that the decapitated person's last sensation would be of flying towards whatever "heaven" their culture had.

I put it here as something that may or may not be true, but ought to be! Maybe someone here has come across the same story and can either vouch for it or refute it.
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This method was reported for the Bayanzi / Yanzi, and possibly other groups, in the Congo region.

Here's a webpage summarizing the procedure and the history of reports from European writers / explorers ...

https://xefer.com/2008/04/behead
 
In case you need a visual aid ...

kazazazaz-001.JPG

SOURCE: http://jlcharvet.over-blog.com/article-les-moeurs-des-ba-yanzi-congo-119595729.html
​
 
mikelegs said:
twenty-five to thirty seconds
Link is dead. See post below for text of the MIA webpage.
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ninja_cat said:
http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html
Link is dead. See post below for text of the MIA webpage.
Click to expand...

Here's the full text of the webpage that once existed at the dead link ...


HLreport.gif


Read this report from 1905. The report is written by Dr Beaurieux, who under perfect circumstances experimented with the head of Languille, guillotined at 5.30 a.m. on June 28th, 1905

" I consider it essential for you to know that Languille displayed an extraordinary sang-froid and even courage from the moment when he was told, that his last hour had come, until the moment when he walked firmly to the scaffold. It may well be, in fact, that the conditions for observation, and consequently the phenomena, differ greatly according to whether the condemned persons retain all their sang-froid and are fully in control of themselves, or whether they are in such state of physical and mental prostration that they have to be carried to the place of execution, and are already half-dead, and as though paralysed by the appalling anguish of the fatal instant.
"The head fell on the severed surface of the neck and I did not therefor have to take it up in my hands, as all the newspapers have vied with each other in repeating; I was not obliged even to touch it in order to set it upright. Chance served me well for the observation, which I wished to make.

"Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds. This phenomenon has been remarked by all those finding themselves in the same conditions as myself for observing what happens after the severing of the neck...

"I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead. It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: "Languille!" I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions ? I insist advisedly on this peculiarity ? but with an even movement, quite distinct and normal, such as happens in everyday life, with people awakened or torn from their thoughts.
Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves. I was not, then, dealing with the sort of vague dull look without any expression, that can be observed any day in dying people to whom one speaks: I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. "After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.

"It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. The there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was on further movement ? and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

"I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds.
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SALVAGED FROM: https://web.archive.org/web/20041206141939/http://www.metaphor.dk:80/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html
 
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blessmycottonsocks said:
France's last execution by guillotine was on Sept 10 1977 of convicted murderer Hamida Djandoubi.
According to this account, the doctor in attendance reported that Djandoubi's head remained responsive for around 30 seconds.
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Guillotine. A french murder device that allows the victim to continue to hate the English for just a little longer.
 
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