Can Identical Genomes & Upbringing Yield Identical Personalities / Consciousnesses?

[bluekasha]

Quick question thats always bugged me,if you cloned two children to be exact,bought them up in lab conditions so they experienced everything the same at the same times,eat the same and drank the same and had no outside stimuli,would they develop different personallity traits and characters? if they did why? and if they did would that be an argument for the existence of the soul??? a question thats always bugged me,give me your views

 

[Semyaz]

If they have the exact same genetic make-up and the exact same environmental stimuli, then theoretically they would develop the same personality, or at least the same behaviour patterns.

If they exhibited signs of different personalities/ behaviour patterns then that would lend to the arguement that something more exists and is responsible for our 'personalities', such as a 'soul'.

However, fraternal (related) children brought up in the same household or by the same family should also exhibit similar personality traits, and usually do. This suggests it is simply a nature/nurture thing, based on a combination of genetics and environmental factors.

However, some siblings, even identical twins, can have very different personalities...

Until a third category can be identified, and subsequently tested, the origins of these differences can only be debated...but hopefully not for too long...!!

 

[Anonymous]

ERm....no. In the first instance, the scenario could never be guaranteed. The womb environment will be different, the birth order (caesarian or not) will be different and provide different trauma. All brains have lesions due to life experiences - purely by genetic/environmental interactions you will also have different (not vast, but different) capiliary blood flow in the brain. This is explicable when you remember that identical twins are not exact carbon copies in a truly mechanical sense (note: biologica process). Can you guarantee that one child will fall at the same time as another, will be ill at the same time? no. What your scenario would produce is something akin to the effects of 'brain washing' (there are problems with this term, but we can let that lie until another thread). Thus what you would have is similar responses, not identical. Differences in personality do not posit a soul or a mind/brain divide. In the second instance, it is a common fallacy to consider identical twins as 100% identical (though the average distribution of genes will be the same over populations there can still be variance simply due to the 'splitting' process). Further, even if one were able to somehow download one's own conscience into an identical clone of oneself, the cognitive processes (though starting out identical)) will diverge due to different orientations of perception due to location, breathing patterns and of course, the knowledge of self. NO, the scenario, while interesting does not posit soul or telepathy - I point you in the direction of research, for example, the Minnesota Twin Study and the like. I would also suggest reading up on the fascinating subject of heritability and how it is (thought) to 'work'.

 

[bluekasha]

Well the question was about CLONED children, not twins. I know that twins aren't 100% identical to each other.

Just supposing you could CLONE two children, and bring them up in identical enviroments... what then?

 

[Semyaz]

This is explicable when you remember that identical twins are not exact carbon copies in a truly mechanical sense (note: biologica process).

This is true, and apologies Gadaffi if this is what it sounds like I was saying but I never said identical twins were 'carbon copies'. I simply said that clones would have the same DNA and identicals twins have been known to have different personalities.

Can you guarantee that one child will fall at the same time as another, will be ill at the same time?

No, this cant be guaranteed in a natural environment, but if the clones were put in an artificial environment such individual incidents as falling over could be minimised, even prevented in the extreme conditions of an strict artificial environment...
However, such experimentation is unethical and so cannot be performed, hence, only theorised.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all. I like the concept you are discussing - I don't believe that even in a controlled environment (ethic aside) that one would attain synchronous consciousness between clones. I have a vague feeling that C.J. Cherryh wrote a book involving brilliant psychologists attempting to make a clone of valued member of society into the spitting image of the original...and failing (can't remember the name of the book right now...sorry).

I don't think that attempting to look at consciousness this way will help explain if there is a soul or not. Indeed, the idea here is very similar to Cartesian duality...

 

[headnspace]

Clones, and no way to duplicate actions

I agree with GadaffiDuck in this respect. Cloning makes the same DNA, but so much more goes into making a person.

The complexity of the brain, mind, and body make for uncertainties that can make personalities different, even with the same DNA, living under identical circumstances.

That being said, similar personalities will result in people growing up in similar circumstances. Genetic tendencies will push personalities only so far, so the upbringing will give a majority of the clones' differences. (if any)

I think a better experiment would to have many clones, with many in the exact same conditions, and others in slightly different conditions, and others in significantly different conditions, and then see where divergences in personalities occur. (but it would still be a thought experiment)