Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

[kesavaross]

I think that that myth has been disproved already, see picture. That gives a good score that will irritate both sides. That's good

I think time will tell.

 

[ramonmercado]

l should have expressed myself better.

maximus otter

Perhaps you caught foot in mouth disease from a Sika calf.

 

[marhawkman]

I think that that myth has been disproved already, see picture. That gives a good score that will irritate both sides. That's good

Lab leak taboo = acceptable now
Vaccine is bad = disproved now

View attachment 64076

Ah, but the real question with the "vax"... IS it a choice between A and B at all? Does choosing B prevent you from being inflicted with A?

Well.. from what I've seen... it's iffy at best.

 

[kamalktk]

So it's a Chinese lab's bioweapon? But it's also no big deal, not even worse than the flu, and we shouldn't take precautions like wearing a mask or social distancing. Got it.

 

[Trevp666]

I am 100% certain that I will not suffer from any adverse reaction to the C19 vax.

 

[eburacum]

There is still a lot of uncertainty about the origin, although it certainly came from Wuhan;
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic

...at this point, the U.S. intelligence community still has no consensus about the origin of SARS-CoV-2. Four of the eight intelligence agencies lean toward a natural origin for the virus, with "low confidence," while two of them — the DOE and the Federal Bureau of Investigation — support a lab origin, with the latter having "moderate confidence" about its conclusion.

The DOE, in this context, is the Department of Energy. Their intelligence department is investigating this because they have a large occupational health service.

Virologist Angela Rasmussen, who contributed to one of the Science papers, says the DOE's "low confident" conclusion doesn't "negate the affirmative evidence for zoonotic [or animal] origin nor do they add any new information in support of lab origin."
"Many other [news] outlets are presenting this as new conclusive proof that the lab origin hypothesis is equally as plausible as the zoonotic origin hypothesis," Rasmussen wrote in an email to NPR, "and that is a misrepresentation of the evidence for either."

Even if the source was a leak from the lab, that doesn't mean it was created in the lab; the virology indicates that this virus had a natural origin, so it could have been among samples collected by the lab in the wild.

 

[brownmane]

To be honest, I don't really know what proving the virus came from a lab leak is going to do now.

All wealthier countries have their labs that work with deadly viruses, so a leak could come (in future) from anywhere.

Does this risk stop the research? No.

 

[marhawkman]

To be honest, I don't really know what proving the virus came from a lab leak is going to do now.

All wealthier countries have their labs that work with deadly viruses, so a leak could come (in future) from anywhere.

Does this risk stop the research? No.

The real question is about the responses and the demands made by authority figures.

Lockdowns are aperfect example.... is there any evidence they actually had any effect other than manipulating the behavior of the citizens?

 

[kamalktk]

The real question is about the responses and the demands made by authority figures.

Lockdowns are aperfect example.... is there any evidence they actually had any effect other than manipulating the behavior of the citizens?

Lockdowns are enforced social distancing, so it's like this, except moving the two people farther apart so they can't pee on each other.

 

[Trevp666]

It's not like that at all.
Piss is a sterile liquid for starters, not an airborne pathogen which, due to the infinitesimally small size of it's particles, has the ability to pass through any mask like a wasp flying through a chain-link fence.
And if some guy pees on me, whether we are naked or not, I punch that guy in the throat.

 

[brownmane]

It's not like that at all.
Piss is a sterile liquid for starters, not an airborne pathogen which, due to the infinitesimally small size of it's particles, has the ability to pass through any mask like a wasp flying through a chain-link fence.
And if some guy pees on me, whether we are naked or not, I punch that guy in the throat.

To be fair, though the image has "face mask" in the header, I think @kamalktk was making a comment about the efficacy of lockdowns.

 

[uair01]

I think that the "masks work" and "lockdowns work" versus "they don't work" is a hopeless discussion. There will probably never be convincing test results.

Why the discussion lingers is, that some people were so offended by having to comply with other's rules, that they will never shut up about it. And even though I find it tiring (I'm sheeple by character), I totally understand that people with different psychological characteristics found it oppressive and offensive. We should have played it differently.

 

[brownmane]

I think that the "masks work" and "lockdowns work" versus "they don't work" is a hopeless discussion. There will probably never be convincing test results.

Why the discussion lingers is, that some people were so offended by having to comply with other's rules, that they will never shut up about it. And even though I find it tiring (I'm sheeple by character), I totally understand that people with different psychological characteristics found it oppressive and offensive. We should have played it differently.

And, imo, the whole thing just showed that people respond to pandemics as they always have in past. People are people and fear and unknowns cause people to revert to behaviour that makes them feel safest whether or not it is productive.

 

[eburacum]

There is a certain truth to the contention that 'facemasks don't work'. They are not significantly effective as a protection against airborne virus particles, as most masks are not fine enough. In other words they do little to protect you.

However, they are somewhat effective against exhaled particles, so they do protect the rest of the world slightly (but significantly) against your exhaled particles, so they were worth wearing in the period before vaccination became widespread. On the other hand they accumulate particles, so unless you have very good mask protocol you may end up increasing the risk in some cases.

The best thing about mask wearing is that it can signal that you desire to maintain social distancing, and this reduces risk far more than the mask does.

 

[marhawkman]

There is a certain truth to the contention that 'facemasks don't work'. They are not significantly effective as a protection against airborne virus particles, as most masks are not fine enough. In other words they do little to protect you.

However, they are somewhat effective against exhaled particles, so they do protect the rest of the world slightly (but significantly) against your exhaled particles, so they were worth wearing in the period before vaccination became widespread. On the other hand they accumulate particles, so unless you have very good mask protocol you may end up increasing the risk in some cases.

The best thing about mask wearing is that it can signal that you desire to maintain social distancing, and this reduces risk far more than the mask does.

For me the real kicker is.... why was it being treated as abnormal? It used to be something that was routine.

 

[uair01]

Singapore does an assessment of it's Covid19 handling. They should do that here too. Interesting:
https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...from-the-complex-and-wicked-covid-19-pandemic

 

[kamalktk]

To be fair, though the image has "face mask" in the header, I think @kamalktk was making a comment about the efficacy of lockdowns.

I was indeed. And despite posts here about masks being ineffective, on the subject of masks effectiveness vs Covid; Science studied it, and they were. For instance https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33087517/ or https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK570440/
etc.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I was indeed. And despite posts here about masks being ineffective, on the subject of masks effectiveness vs Covid; Science studied it, and they were.

Depends on which masks you're talking about.
N95 masks made to a military spec have some efficacy against viruses, because they have fine filters. Worn by people in the military and the medical profession (and by me).
Those face coverings that everybody has been wearing, which are pretty much a J-cloth with elastic - those are not very effective at all.

 

[Xanatic*]

I was in Vienna recently. Apart from covid vaccines being mandatory, the masks on public transport was required to be N95.

 

[kamalktk]

Depends on which masks you're talking about.
N95 masks made to a military spec have some efficacy against viruses, because they have fine filters. Worn by people in the military and the medical profession (and by me).
Those face coverings that everybody has been wearing, which are pretty much a J-cloth with elastic - those are not very effective at all.

Homemade cotton masks vs n95 vs covd.
Some homemade piece of cloth mask isn't as good as an n95, but is effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7580955/

"Our airborne simulation experiments showed that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks had a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by the virus spreader."

 

[kesavaross]

Homemade cotton masks vs n95 vs covd.
Some homemade piece of cloth mask isn't as good as an n95, but is effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7580955/

"Our airborne simulation experiments showed that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks had a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by the virus spreader."

I may have this wrong but the paper doesn't seem to be referring to the virus, just droplets. Coughs and sneezes, etc.

 

[Cochise]

Depends on which masks you're talking about.
N95 masks made to a military spec have some efficacy against viruses, because they have fine filters. Worn by people in the military and the medical profession (and by me).
Those face coverings that everybody has been wearing, which are pretty much a J-cloth with elastic - those are not very effective at all.

I just stuck my old biker neckerchief on. Everyone was happy with that. The masks were a control mechanism., nothing else. We are in the presence of powerful people driven insane by power.

 

[brownmane]

I just stuck my old biker neckerchief on. Everyone was happy with that. The masks were a control mechanism., nothing else. We are in the presence of powerful people driven insane by power.

I don't believe that is how Canada behaved. The cloth masks were advised because the surgical and later N95 masks were being kept for very select healthcare venues eg hospitals.

Our government failed to keep stockpiles of PPE for healthcare workers as it had been recommended following the SARS pandemic. The items were allowed to expire and the supplies were never restocked. Money always comes first regardless of past experience and reflection.

The regular people had to make do with whatever else they had. Even homecare workers had little access to medical masks at that time.

Many small businesses retooled to make medical masks to help with supply. And they were successful with it. The irony is, once the supply became stable, the government forged purchasing agreements with big companies and the small companies who were able to quickly respond to an immediate need were left.

Even now, we who work in congregate care settings wear a mask for 8 hours. Something that medical masks were never designed for.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

As @kesavaross and @Cochise said, a mask or kerchief at least stops 'coughs and sneezes' and droplets from being let loose -
I keep a mask on me always, partially because our medical offices demand wearing of a mask, and also to protect myself when those who sneeze and cough with their mouths open let loose in public.
At least it's a help.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

I just stuck my old biker neckerchief on. Everyone was happy with that. The masks were a control mechanism., nothing else. We are in the presence of powerful people driven insane by power.

'Insane' is the right word!

 

[Cochise]

'Insane' is the right word!

As you point out masks do stop coughs and sneezes spreading infected moisture - but if there is a specific good thing to come out of all the Covid precautions it is surely an awareness that if you are coughing and sneezing you shouldn't be near other people unless unavoidable.

Universal masking never served a purpose - all the commonly available masks people were wearing couldn't stop the virus particles as they are much too small. Even the WHO said it was a political decision.

 

[Stormkhan]

I agree with you, Cochise: before Cov19, people used to question why the Japanese, f'r instance, used to wear masks if they felt poorly but because of the work ethics (I suspect) they had to travel in public. Wearing masks were a personal choice, brought about by personal responsibility.
Here, however, wearing masks became a divisive gesture. "If you wear one, then you're a weak-minded sheeple and I'm a self-empowered rebel against the State!" "If you don't wear one then you're an irresponsible conspiracy loon who likes to kick against the law".
It would've been far better for mask-wearing to be recommended but a matter of personal choice.

 

[Trevp666]

if there is a specific good thing to come out of all the Covid precautions it is surely an awareness that if you are coughing and sneezing you shouldn't be near other people unless unavoidable.

Yeah, cos before 'covid' if I was unwell I used to just cough and sneeze upon whoever was near me.

And I thought that the peoples of Eastern Asia who wore masks a lot in public did it for their own protection against pollution, particularly in the busier cities.

 

[Stormkhan]

Possible, Trev.
I'd still say it's down to personal choice. I wore a mask only when it was mandated not because I thought it protected me but it reduced the risk of my being unknowingly infected and spreading it unwittingly.

 

[Cochise]

Yeah, cos before 'covid' if I was unwell I used to just cough and sneeze upon whoever was near me.

And I thought that the peoples of Eastern Asia who wore masks a lot in public did it for their own protection against pollution, particularly in the busier cities

Yes they do. Diesel fumes in particular. Much larger particles. Nowt wrong with that as long as you have the right sort of mask and use it properly.