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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

@Beresford and @JahaRa , thanks for your info. Though I know dairy cattle are sold once their good production years are gone, and, so understand Jahara's comment, I did not know about the different breeds for egg vs meat production.
 
Beresford said:
According to RSPCA Australia

"Male chicks are considered an unwanted byproduct of egg production and are killed and disposed of shortly after chick sexing at just one day old.

Male chicks are killed for two reasons: they cannot lay eggs and they are not suitable for chicken-meat production. This is because layer hens — and therefore their chicks — are a different breed of poultry to chickens that are bred and raised for meat production. Layer hens are bred to produce eggs whereas meat chickens are bred to grow large breast muscle and legs."

I came across an article from 2017 that claimed that culling of male chicks would end by 2020 in the US. Not sure if that has happened yet.

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-happens-with-male-chicks-in-the-egg-industry/
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Enh, from personal experience in the US... some if not all of the US farms that raise for meat raise both male and female.
Ghost In The Machine said:
Terrorism, though. You want to catch and stop that shit whilst it's still "just talk", or else you'd be responsible for people being maimed/killed.
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Mmmm, sure, preventing crime sounds like a nice goal. Better be sure you're getting the right man though.
 
No one I know in my family nor my friends that I stay in contact with (around 50 people) (Indiana) who had the vaccines ever got sick or died as a result of getting vaccinated. I have also asked others not in my inner circle of people and no one seems to know anyone that did.
Yet there are conspiracies on forums telling of all the people that have died - regular people, atheletes, etc.
Obviously with any vaccine some will have a reaction just like with vaccines in the past but these conspiracy fans are implying far more than statistical issues.
Where is this information/data coming from? Is this simply an anti vaxx conspiracy meme from political sources that are on conspiracy web sites ? And are geographical locations and a specific vaccine the issue here?
 
dr wu said:
No one I know in my family nor my friends that I stay in contact with (around 50 people) (Indiana) who had the vaccines ever got sick or died as a result of getting vaccinated. I have also asked others not in my inner circle of people and no one seems to know anyone that did.
Yet there are conspiracies on forums telling of all the people that have died - regular people, atheletes, etc.
Obviously with any vaccine some will have a reaction just like with vaccines in the past but these conspiracy fans are implying far more than statistical issues.
Where is this information/data coming from? Is this simply an anti vaxx conspiracy meme from political sources that are on conspiracy web sites ? And are geographical locations and a specific vaccine the issue here?
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Some of the deaths that the anti-vax conspirators have attributed to the vaccine are false. I can't find the post on another thread which mentions a court case where a woman was told to stop using a specific person's death as evidence of vaccine related deaths. It is false.

Maybe this rings a bell with others?
 
brownmane said:
Some of the deaths that the anti-vax conspirators have attributed to the vaccine are false. I can't find the post on another thread which mentions a court case where a woman was told to stop using a specific person's death as evidence of vaccine related deaths. It is false.

Maybe this rings a bell with others?
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So then this conspiracy meme about a large number of covid vaccine deaths is all just a political conspiracy from some conservative groups?
 
dr wu said:
So then this conspiracy meme about a large number of covid vaccine deaths is all just a political conspiracy from some conservative groups?
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Pretty much. Though some of the conspiracists are well monied and known.
 
dr wu said:
No one I know in my family nor my friends that I stay in contact with (around 50 people) (Indiana) who had the vaccines ever got sick or died as a result of getting vaccinated. I have also asked others not in my inner circle of people and no one seems to know anyone that did.
Yet there are conspiracies on forums telling of all the people that have died - regular people, atheletes, etc.
Obviously with any vaccine some will have a reaction just like with vaccines in the past but these conspiracy fans are implying far more than statistical issues.
Where is this information/data coming from? Is this simply an anti vaxx conspiracy meme from political sources that are on conspiracy web sites ? And are geographical locations and a specific vaccine the issue here?
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I don't know any one who has had issues because of the mRNA vaccine for Covid. I know people who got the vaccine and some got boosters and still got the virus, which is normal because the vaccine is given to boost your immune system and it mutates faster than influenza so if you have immune issues (like chronic colds, or other illnesses) you will get the virus, but it won't kill you. My daughter got it after her 1st booster, her son got it but he was too young to get vaccinated. Now, there are side effects or lingering effects of having the virus for some people. The second time my brother in law got it and was hospitalized, he developed a heart issue a week after he got out of the hospital and had to go back. They found that he had a blood clot in his lung and said it was caused by the virus. If someone develops some ailment from the vaccine that is a common effect of the actual virus, I would suspect that they had the virus and didn't acknowledge it. But I am not a virologist or a doctor so I don't really know why people would claim that the vaccine killed people without any proof of that.

Also, I do remember when the first version of the flu shot came out there were people like my mother and my friend who were told after they got that shot in the 70's to never get another flu shot as they seemed to be allergic to something in it. Over the years the flu shot has changed and fewer people have troubel with it. So the covid vaccine is a new method and I would expect the same kinds of issues coming up for it as the early flu shot. As far as I know no one died from the flu shot, but some got very sick.
 
dr wu said:
No one I know in my family nor my friends that I stay in contact with (around 50 people) (Indiana) who had the vaccines ever got sick or died as a result of getting vaccinated. I have also asked others not in my inner circle of people and no one seems to know anyone that did.
Yet there are conspiracies on forums telling of all the people that have died - regular people, atheletes, etc.
Obviously with any vaccine some will have a reaction just like with vaccines in the past but these conspiracy fans are implying far more than statistical issues.
Where is this information/data coming from? Is this simply an anti vaxx conspiracy meme from political sources that are on conspiracy web sites ? And are geographical locations and a specific vaccine the issue here?
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Enh, *raises hand*

Yeah some people close to my family had serious issues with it.

The kicker here is that... diagnosing it as death due to vaccine is... more a matter of timing than analysis. Much like the virus itself, most of the symptoms aren't unique to it.
 
One sure way to be 100% certain that you do not suffer any adverse side-effects (or worse) from having the C19 vaccine is to not have it.
 
I don't know anyone who died where the vaccine was attributed to the death, however without testing to rule out the vaccine, cause of death simply gets put as heart attack or whatever.

I do know vaccinated people who since getting vaccinated have caught covid multiple times AND have had mysterious blood clots suddenly appear, with doctors saying they don't know the cause.

Equally I myself am not vaccinated (not a conspiracy nut, just didn't like what I found out about MRNA) and I have unvaccinated friends. All of us seem to share a common theme that we rarely get sick, have no idea if we ever caught covid, and don't suffer from blood clots etc.

Each to his own, but I don't trust the general narrative that media put out about the whole situation and "cure"
 
yeah, the guy close to our family who died... vaccine wasn't cause of death... officially, his wife thought it was, and so on, but it got called a heart attack. But why a heart attack?
 
marhawkman said:
yeah, the guy close to our family who died... vaccine wasn't cause of death... officially, his wife thought it was, and so on, but it got called a heart attack. But why a heart attack?
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People have heart attacks all the time.

approximately every 40 seconds an American will have a heart attack. Every year, 805,000 Americans have a heart attack, 605,000 of them for the first time. About 12 percent of people who have a heart attack will die from it.
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How old was the man, was he fairly fit, was he overweight, did he exercise, could be something hereditary, & so on..
 
Sprite666 said:
I don't know anyone who died where the vaccine was attributed to the death, however without testing to rule out the vaccine, cause of death simply gets put as heart attack or whatever.

I do know vaccinated people who since getting vaccinated have caught covid multiple times AND have had mysterious blood clots suddenly appear, with doctors saying they don't know the cause.

Equally I myself am not vaccinated (not a conspiracy nut, just didn't like what I found out about MRNA) and I have unvaccinated friends. All of us seem to share a common theme that we rarely get sick, have no idea if we ever caught covid, and don't suffer from blood clots etc.

Each to his own, but I don't trust the general narrative that media put out about the whole situation and "cure"
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Some doctors say the cause of blood clots is due to the covid virus. It is a known complication of getting that virus. Maybe it could be a side effect of the vaccine, however the method of the mRNA vaccine is to prevent those kinds of things (I am not saying they are better, I am saying that is the goal of using them) The problem I have is that no statistics have been kept on the people who were vaccinated with astra zeneca or Johnson & Johnson vaccines. Probably because they would find those vaccines were more effective and had fewere problems, being based on old methodolgy that has been working for 100 years. I had the J&J vaccine, never got a booster and did not get the virus until a year and a half later. If there had been an annual J&J vaccine I would have taken it. But I don't know whether I am uniique or not because there are no data to compare.
 
hunck said:
People have heart attacks all the time.



How old was the man, was he fairly fit, was he overweight, did he exercise, could be something hereditary, & so on..
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None of that matters. My dad's friend ran 5 miles almost every day and ate well, no junk food and he died of a heart attack on one of his runs. I don't know if it was a hereditary condition, but the other things on the list have nothing to do with heart attack unless you are already predisposed or have some other issue. My alcoholic dad lived to be 88 and he did not have a heart attack though he did not eat well (sometimes not at all) or exercise etc.
 
JahaRa said:
None of that matters. My dad's friend ran 5 miles almost every day and ate well, no junk food and he died of a heart attack on one of his runs. I don't know if it was a hereditary condition, but the other things on the list have nothing to do with heart attack unless you are already predisposed or have some other issue. My alcoholic dad lived to be 88 and he did not have a heart attack though he did not eat well (sometimes not at all) or exercise etc.
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There’s always exceptions - even super-fit sports people can have heart attacks, as happened to footballer Christian Eriksen.
 
hunck said:
People have heart attacks all the time.



How old was the man, was he fairly fit, was he overweight, did he exercise, could be something hereditary, & so on..
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heh, the usual questions everyone asks.

Here's a better question: how would you diagnose the difference? What would you see as a red flag?

As I said before, the main thing visible is suspicious timing. How would you find more concrete evidence?
 
marhawkman said:
heh, the usual questions everyone asks.

Here's a better question: how would you diagnose the difference? What would you see as a red flag?

As I said before, the main thing visible is suspicious timing. How would you find more concrete evidence?
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Since no-one will know why your friend was one of the 805,000 who have a heart attack every year & was one of the unfortunate 12% who don’t survive, there is little to be gained in further speculation.

Maybe he was one of the small minority affected by the vaccination - blood clots etc, maybe he wasn’t.

This study for example puts the figure at 1.4 cases per million people vaccinated.

https://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2023/04/015.html

This one has a similar figure

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots

It's possible he was a one-in-a-million.
 
hunck said:
Since no-one will know why your friend was one of the 805,000 who have a heart attack every year & was one of the unfortunate 12% who don’t survive, there is little to be gained in further speculation.

Maybe he was one of the small minority affected by the vaccination - blood clots etc, maybe he wasn’t.

This study for example puts the figure at 1.4 cases per million people vaccinated.

https://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2023/04/015.html

This one has a similar figure

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots

It's possible he was a one-in-a-million.
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And you skipped the question: how would you know if it was the vaccine?
 
marhawkman said:
And you skipped the question: how would you know if it was the vaccine?
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And you skipped all of mine before that.

It’s obvious I have no idea if it was the vaccine, & neither do you. We can go on around this forever. As I’ve said, If you believe the studies around one in a million have had an adverse reaction to vaccines. It’s possible your friend was one of them.
 
I have to sit on the fence a little here - sitting on the fence is always a good position for a Fortean in any case!

I've had the vaccine, I've had boosters, and I do believe that, on the whole, being vaccinated is safer than not being vaccinated.

But no medical intervention is entirely without risks, and yes, some people do suffer bad reactions to the vaccine, and some even die from it.

It's a bit appalling that any comment on this latter fact is actively muzzled. At least in Australia, doctors can be de-registered for 'undermining the vaccination effort' - and any comment about vaccine injuries is interpreted as undermining.

Here's an interesting interview with Doctor Kerryn Phelps, who is hardly a crank: she's Past President of the Australian Medical Association, and later became a Member of Parliament. She talks about the suppression of reports of vaccine injuries, and how bad they can be.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...d/news-story/0c1fa02818c99a5ff65f5bf852a382cf
 
hunck said:
And you skipped all of mine before that.

It’s obvious I have no idea if it was the vaccine, & neither do you. We can go on around this forever. As I’ve said, If you believe the studies around one in a million have had an adverse reaction to vaccines. It’s possible your friend was one of them.
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all you said was a long-winded version of "what if it wasn't related?"

Ok.... well, um... it's nothing of substance.

Which is why I asked you how you'd be able to tell the difference. You seemingly think I'm speculating. How do you have it as a known yes or no, and not speculation.
 
marhawkman said:
all you said was a long-winded version of "what if it wasn't related?"

Ok.... well, um... it's nothing of substance.

Which is why I asked you how you'd be able to tell the difference. You seemingly think I'm speculating. How do you have it as a known yes or no, and not speculation.
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I don't think we can answer this, except as you mentioned earlier, it would be the timing of having the vaccination to when the side effects occurred. This is same for any vaccination.

For example, Guillain-Barré syndrome is a rare auto-immune disease and is a result of your immune system attacking your nerves. And even rarer is getting it from a vaccine, but it happens. When a person develops it shortly after a vaccine, then it is attributed to the vaccine. I know several people who had developed this from vaccinations, both happened to be a reaction to a flu vaccine.

The difficulty for anyone deciding to get a vaccination is that until you have the vaccine, you don't know if you will react to it. It is only in hindsight that this can be predicted.
 
brownmane said:
I don't think we can answer this, except as you mentioned earlier, it would be the timing of having the vaccination to when the side effects occurred. This is same for any vaccination.

For example, Guillain-Barré syndrome is a rare auto-immune disease and is a result of your immune system attacking your nerves. And even rarer is getting it from a vaccine, but it happens. When a person develops it shortly after a vaccine, then it is attributed to the vaccine. I know several people who had developed this from vaccinations, both happened to be a reaction to a flu vaccine.

The difficulty for anyone deciding to get a vaccination is that until you have the vaccine, you don't know if you will react to it. It is only in hindsight that this can be predicted.
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yeah, but it's something worth consideration and discussion.
 
marhawkman said:
all you said was a long-winded version of "what if it wasn't related?"

Ok.... well, um... it's nothing of substance.

Which is why I asked you how you'd be able to tell the difference. You seemingly think I'm speculating. How do you have it as a known yes or no, and not speculation.
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I think the only possible way to tell the difference would be an autopsy.

As I’ve said repeatedly, your friend may have have been one of those who had an adverse reaction to the vaccine. On the other hand it may have played no part. I don’t know what more I can add. I don’t 'have it as a known yes or no' - how could I?
 
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