Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

marhawkman

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the "Science" behind them detoxifying the body is ropey at best.
It's the same rationale as regular saunas. When you sweat your body excretes certain things, and some of those things are toxins. Thus you are reducing the levels of those toxins in your body. IR "sauna"s are just a different way to induce you to sweat really.

Yes, you could just go jogging until you get hot and sweaty too. That achieves a similar result. So does a really hot bath. Enh the IR bombardment idea might be more convenient for some people.
That's putting something of a spin on Paltrow's statement.
I tend to agree with the medical director of NHS that, suggesting that fasting and other esoteric practices are an effective treatment for Covid, is highly irresponsible.
The bottom line is that I would choose to take the NHS' advice ahead of Ms Paltrow's and I believe the only genuine benefit from fasting is weight loss.
Indeed the NHS advice seems to be that it is very important to maintain levels of nutrition if you become infected with Covid.
Benefits of "fasting" depend on HOW you do it not just IF you do it. If you are not eating to the point you actually suffer from starvation you're doing it wrong. Proper fasting is actually a method of dietary regulation, and not as simple as "don't eat".... It's about eating the right amount of food overall, and not specific portion sizes.
 

Lb8535

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Saying it again Paltrow peddles untested (or tested and found wanting) snake oil. I appreciate that occasionally she will find something that makes me feel good too, like saunas. She's saying "buy this [from me] or buy my advice on it and you will feel good and it will cure symptoms of long covid. It cured my symptoms. (my emphasis)" Makes her feel good? fine. Anyone silly enough to think that if a known public personality says it makes her feel good, I will buy it from her deserves what they get. She's giving medical advice about a serious syndrome, and some of her advice is dangerous (do not start a fast, which most people believes means don't eat anything, without evaluating your medical condition) and I'm happy to say that if she steps one inch over the line this is actionable in this country by the government and by individuals and I expect it's on the way. And she's was always a non-actress.
 

Stormkhan

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Seriously, if it just stopped at "her own opinion" then it'd be fine. But I think she's lining up a sales pitch for her latest quackery - and I seriously doubt her sincerity. After all, in one interview a while back, she was being asked to explain some of the overpriced crud her company sells: she just laughed and said "I have absolutely no idea ... I just sell it!"
Considering the prices for some of the rubbish she sells, it's just another con job; not everyone can afford or will pay for her stuff but it only takes one twit to 'buy into' her expertise without question and she makes a bucketload of money.
As far as IR 'saunas' are concerned, I've no opinion. I recall - decades ago - my Dad had a really bad back and the GP recommended he get an IR Heat lamp, which would localise the warming effect. My Dad - in his usual way - purchased a huge and heavy electric ... well ... electric coil heater on a parabolic reflector which looked liked it'd been nicked from an abandoned hospital. Switched it on, house fuses blew, smell of burning from device ... and he was finally persuaded to by a 'proper' IR heat lamp from Boots.
 

Lb8535

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the "Science" behind them detoxifying the body is ropey at best.
Agreed but to go further the science behind the body needing detoxification in any part is non-existent. De toxification as a medical situation arises in the few cases such as lead poisoning, which is handled medically. I have not over many years of paying attention to healthy eating and living come across any scientific proof at all that detoxification is a real thing. I like sitting in saunas because it feels good.
 

Lb8535

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Seriously, if it just stopped at "her own opinion" then it'd be fine. But I think she's lining up a sales pitch for her latest quackery - and I seriously doubt her sincerity. After all, in one interview a while back, she was being asked to explain some of the overpriced crud her company sells: she just laughed and said "I have absolutely no idea ... I just sell it!"
Considering the prices for some of the rubbish she sells, it's just another con job; not everyone can afford or will pay for her stuff but it only takes one twit to 'buy into' her expertise without question and she makes a bucketload of money.
As far as IR 'saunas' are concerned, I've no opinion. I recall - decades ago - my Dad had a really bad back and the GP recommended he get an IR Heat lamp, which would localise the warming effect. My Dad - in his usual way - purchased a huge and heavy electric ... well ... electric coil heater on a parabolic reflector which looked liked it'd been nicked from an abandoned hospital. Switched it on, house fuses blew, smell of burning from device ... and he was finally persuaded to by a 'proper' IR heat lamp from Boots.
I remember those old heat lamps in the 50's, my mother had one, they were good for muscle issues.
 

Cloudbusting

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The real mystery is who actually buys any of her nonsense, I don't know a single person who does...
 

Stormkhan

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It's a lifestyle con ... er ... sales pitch. Everything in the promotional videos is white or pastel colours, in luxury mansions by the sea filmed on glorious days, and populated by shallow, intense clones. It sells to wealthy twits with so much money they can throw it away on indulgence.
 

Ascalon

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It's the same rationale as regular saunas. When you sweat your body excretes certain things, and some of those things are toxins. Thus you are reducing the levels of those toxins in your body. IR "sauna"s are just a different way to induce you to sweat really.

Yes, you could just go jogging until you get hot and sweaty too. That achieves a similar result. So does a really hot bath. Enh the IR bombardment idea might be more convenient for some people.
Benefits of "fasting" depend on HOW you do it not just IF you do it. If you are not eating to the point you actually suffer from starvation you're doing it wrong. Proper fasting is actually a method of dietary regulation, and not as simple as "don't eat".... It's about eating the right amount of food overall, and not specific portion sizes.
You see this is how these kind of things grow legs and walk off into the distance.

The general wisdom is that your body does not sweat toxins.

There is a whole myth that has been usefully multiplied by the alternative health and well being industry, that you can take toxins out of the body in some manner other than its own natural processes.

The truth is far from it. Beyond extreme interventions like dialysis, there is no ready way of getting rid of toxins, bar ensuring good liver and kidney function.

Detox diets, sauna therapies, electrolysis, etc, it is all bullshit. It does not detox the body.

Ms Paltrow et al, tend to wrap theses things up in a little pseudo science and then peddle them to the unwary, uneducated or uncaring.

The likes of Paltrow, knowing they have such influence, have a duty to ensure what they flog is at the very least safe, if not actually efficacious.

Her record on this is poor at best.
 

marhawkman

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You see this is how these kind of things grow legs and walk off into the distance.

The general wisdom is that your body does not sweat toxins.

There is a whole myth that has been usefully multiplied by the alternative health and well being industry, that you can take toxins out of the body in some manner other than its own natural processes.
And this is where you come across as not understanding the topic. This is the opposite of the claim. The claim is that the therapies or whatever you want to call them are in fact using a natural process but speeding it up. It is very true that the body does excrete things in sweat other than water.

But what? Well, for one example, it is known that sweat is one of the ways the body excretes Lead. Which IS a toxin. What else? Here's a paper you might find interesting: Recent Developments in Sweat Analysis and Its Applications (hindawi.com)

Hmmm I haven't found one yet that actually does chemical analysis to support OR reject therapeutic uses. Then again, most of the therapeutic claims are not based on purging toxins. Of course this raises the question "what are we de-toxing anyways?"

What does Paltrow even mean when she uses the word "de-tox"? Presumably she's not talking about heavy metals. Oh wait, she was advocating use of a sauna to treat feelings of fatigue, and never made any claims about de-tox. :p Yeah her claims were about feeling less fatigued. Not about "curing the virus", but about alleviating feelings of fatigue. The only Covid connection was that she listed that as WHY she was feeling fatigued.

Oh yeah, anecdote time. One of the guys I went to high school with in the 90s had a father who had issues with heavy metal exposure to the point he nearly died... his blood was so toxic it would kill parasites(like mosquitos or ticks) that drank his blood. Regular sauna usage was something he used as part of treating this.. and his treatment regimen worked. Obviously you're going to tell me "but that doesn't prove the sauna had any benefit!" Well that's all the information I have. Someone I've met in person did use saunas as part of treating dangerously high heavy metal levels in his blood and he got better.

Obviously there's a limited variety of things your body can sweat out. But some things are useful in that regard.
It's a lifestyle con ... er ... sales pitch. Everything in the promotional videos is white or pastel colours, in luxury mansions by the sea filmed on glorious days, and populated by shallow, intense clones. It sells to wealthy twits with so much money they can throw it away on indulgence.
yeah it's not marketed towards "lower income" people. It's for people with a lot of extra cash. Who probably don't really care if it works as advertised.
 

Mythopoeika

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Oh yeah, anecdote time. One of the guys I went to high school with in the 90s had a father who had issues with heavy metal exposure to the point he nearly died... his blood was so toxic it would kill parasites(like mosquitos or ticks) that drank his blood. Regular sauna usage was something he used as part of treating this.. and his treatment regimen worked. Obviously you're going to tell me "but that doesn't prove the sauna had any benefit!" Well that's all the information I have. Someone I've met in person did use saunas as part of treating dangerously high heavy metal levels in his blood and he got better.
Aren't they supposed to do chelation therapy to remove heavy metals?
 

marhawkman

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Aren't they supposed to do chelation therapy to remove heavy metals?
He was probably doing both. I don't actually know the full assortment of treatments he used. Sauna was "part of" his treatment regimen, not the full thing.
 

MorningAngel

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Interesting bit in FT403 in Strange Days talking about the possibility of a leak and a the cover up.
 

Ringo

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EnolaGaia

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But didn't some blood tests from Italy (?) show positive results from early autumn 2019?
Yes ... Antibody tests run on blood samples gathered in Italy during September and October 2019 yielded dozens of positive results.

Italy recorded its first official coronavirus case in Lombardy on February 21, 2020. Yet a recent study found coronavirus antibodies in blood samples collected from 23 Italians in September 2019 and 27 in October 2019.

"Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic," the authors wrote. (SARS-CoV-2 is the clinical name of the virus.)

A study conducted by Rome's Department of Environment and Health supports that conclusion: Researchers found the coronavirus' genetic material in sewage samples from Milan and Turin dating back to December 18, 2019.
SOURCE: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-circulated-europe-china-before-wuhan-outbreak-2020-12

NOTE: The antibody tests yield a substantial proportion of false positives. I can't find any clues as to whether anyone's attempted to re-validate the Italian blood sample findings.
 

Lb8535

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Aren't they supposed to do chelation therapy to remove heavy metals?
Yes, medically managed chelation therapy is the treatment for lead poisoning and I assume for other heavy metai poisoning.
 

marhawkman

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But didn't some blood tests from Italy (?) show positive results from early autumn 2019?
That's exactly what I was getting at. They seem to be going all-in on endorsing a specific origin. why?
 

Sid Boggle

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I don't know if this has already been covered in this thread, and I know there can't be a clear answer to this, but....
If we had ignored Covid19 and continued with normal life, how would things now be?
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I don't know if this has already been covered in this thread, and I know there can't be a clear answer to this, but....
If we had ignored Covid19 and continued with normal life, how would things now be?
The economy and unemplyoment figures would be somewhat healthier, but the overall mortality rate would be far higher and, without having developed and rolled out the vaccine, we would all be living under the shadow of contracting a potentially lethal virus every autumn and winter for the rest of our lives.
 

Souleater

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I don't know if this has already been covered in this thread, and I know there can't be a clear answer to this, but....
If we had ignored Covid19 and continued with normal life, how would things now be?
There are 2 countries you can look at, one is Sweden with a population of 10,099,265 people
Screenshot_20210225-170637.pngScreenshot_20210225-170704.png

The other is Brazil with a population of 212,559,417 people
Screenshot_20210225-171023.pngScreenshot_20210225-170927.png
Both countries introduced covid restrictions late, but you also have to take unto consideration population densities so its difficult to compare directly.
 

Cochise

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The economy and unemplyoment figures would be somewhat healthier, but the overall mortality rate would be far higher and, without having developed and rolled out the vaccine, we would all be living under the shadow of contracting a potentially lethal virus every autumn and winter for the rest of our lives.
There is such a thing as an immune system. If there wasn't, we'd never have survived at all. How quickly it would have kicked in is anyone's guess, but typically it takes two or three waves with respiratory viruses.
 

Ringo

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There are 2 countries you can look at, one is Sweden with a population of 10,099,265 people

The other is Brazil with a population of 212,559,417 people

Both countries introduced covid restrictions late, but you also have to take unto consideration population densities so its difficult to compare directly.
This isn't 100% correct. Sweden introduced guidelines and restrictions as early as anyone else yet didn't go for the Lockdown strategy. We went for the social distancing and hygiene strategy. This worked at first because of our population density and because we could all be outside. The main fault was not isolating the very elderly in care homes. Certain care workers were super spreading the virus amongst the care homes. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden are the over 80's who have home helps or live in care facilities. The number of cases in Sweden is still increasing but the numbers of deaths has fallen now that care home visits are restricted.

As of 3 march 2021:
UK deaths per 1 million: 1858 (258 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
Sweden deaths per 1 million: 1265 (127 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
USA deaths per 1 million: 1579 (209 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
Brazil deaths per 1 million: 1229 (157 deaths per million reported in thelast 30 days)
 

Vardoger

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This isn't 100% correct. Sweden introduced guidelines and restrictions as early as anyone else yet didn't go for the Lockdown strategy. We went for the social distancing and hygiene strategy. This worked at first because of our population density and because we could all be outside. The main fault was not isolating the very elderly in care homes. Certain care workers were super spreading the virus amongst the care homes. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden are the over 80's who have home helps or live in care facilities. The number of cases in Sweden is still increasing but the numbers of deaths has fallen now that care home visits are restricted.

As of 3 march 2021:
UK deaths per 1 million: 1858 (258 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
Sweden deaths per 1 million: 1265 (127 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
USA deaths per 1 million: 1579 (209 deaths per million reported in the last 30 days)
Brazil deaths per 1 million: 1229 (157 deaths per million reported in thelast 30 days)
In comparison: Norway's cumulative confirmed deaths per million is 114.92.
 
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Sid Boggle

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To my mind the data quoted in the last few posts suggests loosely that however you tackle Covid (aside from an extreme lockdown), the number of deaths is - again, loosely - beyond control. In other words, it's a new flu, which has a sudden impact on the more vulnerable, but then levels out as we get used to it.
This is blunt, yes, but is it fair?
 

marhawkman

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To my mind the data quoted in the last few posts suggests loosely that however you tackle Covid (aside from an extreme lockdown), the number of deaths is - again, loosely - beyond control. In other words, it's a new flu, which has a sudden impact on the more vulnerable, but then levels out as we get used to it.
This is blunt, yes, but is it fair?
It's an airborne pathogen. you can get it from being in the same general area as some one who was sick.

One person who was super careful, eventually figured out she got it from someone who never came within 20 feet of her.
 
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