Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

michael59

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It's not a conspiracy theory, most of us who support the vaccine just get fed up by people who don't and flout wearing masks, etc. This isn't something that has slowly been inserted into my brain via the TV or the internet. I fully supported the vaccine when it was first proposed.

I've worked with public health scientists as well as having close relatives who were scientists as well as being married to a former scientist so grasping the need for a vaccine as well as the need for PPE was a no-brainer.

I understand that even though I may be vaccinated I might still get COVID. Nothing is foolproof, there are many, many stories and articles in the media stating this fact - I also know that medication has side effects too. Again us pro-science folks tend to use critical thinking so we understand that there are risks.

I've seen pictures of my scientist-relatives and my wife when she was a scientist in their workplaces, and they never wore one-piece black jumpsuits or worked in some huge underground bunker. I try and put my trust in people who have studied this their whole careers, rather than a bloke who's a pastor or some random church or a disc jockey who's trying to keep his listener figurers up by being controversial.

So why then do you fundamentally not trust people who have dedicated their entire lives to try and preserve yours?

Because, as you yourself say, science is not fool proof. Science is only fact until proven otherwise and is proven otherwise often.

I have twin step brothers who are victims of thalidomide. I had an uncle who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes then when in hospital for hip replacement, was told he had been incorrectly diagnosed with diabetes and taken off his medicine. Shortly thereafter, died as he lay there in that very same hospital bed in a diabetic coma until he passed away at the age of 36.

I remember watching the news as Scientists swore an oath in front of congress that cigarettes were not addictive and did not cause cancer.

The list of examples where the public have been lied to by our own experts and our own governments are practically endless.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Because, as you yourself say, science is not fool proof. Science is only fact until proven otherwise and is proven otherwise often.

I have twin step brothers who are victims of thalidomide. I had an uncle who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes then when in hospital for hip replacement, was told he had been incorrectly diagnosed with diabetes and taken off his medicine. Shortly thereafter, died as he lay there in that very same hospital bed in a diabetic coma until he passed away at the age of 36.

I remember watching the news as Scientists swore an oath in front of congress that cigarettes were not addictive and did not cause cancer.

The list of examples where the public have been lied to by our own experts and our own governments are practically endless.

So you just refuse to accept anything that is science-based in case it might be incorrect?

Just so I understand where you are coming from.
 

michael59

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So you just refuse to accept anything that is science-based in case it might be incorrect?

No, I refuse to be bullied into taking chemical concoctions into my body that were created in haste and then told that if I don't do it I am being selfish because I put everyone else around me in danger.

Why in the world would everyone else around me trust that I would not put them in danger? Should they not be protecting themselves and not relying on others to protect them? Shouldn't the people at risk be protected by loved ones and or care givers around them? Why is it dependent on me to save the world when I want to wait and be sure the vaccine is effective and not going to make me grow a third arm or lose a lung in 6 months or 5 years from now because it was administered in haste? Because some scientists said so?

I believe my natural immune system and common sense will protect me for now. I have an inalienable right to that belief.

YMMV and you have every right to hold to that belief. :friends:
 

michael59

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There's something else that I forgot to add. How come even though the vaccinated public can get sick and even just transmit the virus to others, that they can still get passports and travel and attend social events and shop unencumbered? I am prohibited from these things because I am not vaccinated and therefore don't have a piece of paper saying that I am a responsible human being.

Why is that? What is that if not a conspiracy?
 

Yithian

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Why in the world would everyone else around me trust that I would not put them in danger? Should they not be protecting themselves and not relying on others to protect them? Shouldn't the people at risk be protected by loved ones and or care givers around them? Why is it dependent on me to save the world when I want to wait and be sure the vaccine is effective and not going to make me grow a third arm or lose a lung in 6 months or 5 years from now because it was administered in haste?

Are you content to accept the majority deciding to exclude you from communal locations and activities as part of that protection they ought to extend to those in danger?

I'm not necessarily saying that I favour that, but it would seem the logical next step in response to your sketch of the morally defensible scenario that should obtain.

Edit: your second post--because they're lower risk, and exclusion from society has been used as a tool to pressure non-conformists in almost every society we know of--and that's about it.

I don't say I like it, but I if you want to be in the group, you sometimes get outvoted.
 

michael59

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Are you content to accept the majority deciding to exclude you from communal locations and activities as part of that protection they ought to extend to those in danger?

I'm not necessarily saying that I favour that, but it would seem the logical next step in response to your sketch of the morally defensible scenario that should obtain.

Edit: your second post--because they're lower risk, and exclusion from society has been used as a tool to pressure non-conformists in almost every society we know of--and that's about it.

I don't say I like it, but I if you want to be in the group, you sometimes get outvoted.

Favor it or not, agree with it or not, it is already happening.

I'm not sure if you saw my post below the one you quoted here because I did come back and post it just minutes ago. One of the members of Nivek's forum had to produce vaccination papers this weekend before he was allowed to attend his kids sports game. He could very well still be contagious as far as they know, right? People who are vaccinated can still pass on the virus. There isn't enough evidence out there proving that children will not get just as fatally ill or die from the variant.

As far as myself? I am content to accept it because none of it affects me. It does not mean that I will shut up and take it with a grin.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Never mind the "yellow peril", some people are blaming those pesky greys from Zeta Reticuli and believe Covid is the precursor to an alien invasion. Apparently the spike in UFO sightings since the start of the pandemic is due to the aliens spending more time on Earth to monitor the results of their work.

grey.JPG


https://altamontenterprise.com/opin.../08142020/coronavirus-actually-alien-invasion

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coronavirus-ancient-alien-OnTime-Books-ebook/dp/B08HQWGVH8

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...en-monitoring-china-covid19-aliens-latest-evg

https://www.cnet.com/news/ufo-sightings-spiked-dramatically-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/
 

michael59

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Never mind the "yellow peril", some people are blaming those pesky greys from Zeta Reticuli and believe Covid is the precursor to an alien invasion. Apparently the spike in UFO sightings since the start of the pandemic is due to the aliens spending more time on Earth to monitor the results of their work.

View attachment 44256

https://altamontenterprise.com/opin.../08142020/coronavirus-actually-alien-invasion

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coronavirus-ancient-alien-OnTime-Books-ebook/dp/B08HQWGVH8

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...en-monitoring-china-covid19-aliens-latest-evg

https://www.cnet.com/news/ufo-sightings-spiked-dramatically-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

You kid, but as you know I am a abductee and therefore this did cross my mind as well. :D

All kidding aside...

When I see clips or hear other countries reports about being monitored. I honestly think it's the USA doing the monitoring. :nods:
 

michael59

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Are you content to accept the majority deciding to exclude you from communal locations and activities as part of that protection they ought to extend to those in danger?

I'm not necessarily saying that I favour that, but it would seem the logical next step in response to your sketch of the morally defensible scenario that should obtain.

Edit: your second post--because they're lower risk, and exclusion from society has been used as a tool to pressure non-conformists in almost every society we know of--and that's about it.

I don't say I like it, but I if you want to be in the group, you sometimes get outvoted.

Apologies for the delayed response. I would explain why, but well you know why it is delayed.

I don't know how old you are, Yithian. Please forgive me if you have heard all this before...

The 2 generations before me and my own generation included fought very hard to make these so called powers that be answer for their deceit. In other words for lying to us so that they can control us and benefit from our trusting that they are speaking the truth and know what's best for us. We fought back. Not in the sense that they did jail time or anything like that, but in the sense that they work for us not the other way around. There was a time when a talk show was instantly pulled off (TV) the air because a guest walked out with a picture of the flag on his t-shirt. Up until 1969, a woman could be institutionalized by a father or male guardian, for not wanting to get married and have children. Because she was considered to be a non-conformist and therefore must be mentally ill.

We cannot be saying that we want to give all these rights up and pass the power back to whomever wants to call the shots because suddenly we fall under the category of non-conformists. I don't recall getting a vote do you? Because in the past 30 years or so we have slowly allowed it to slip back into the grip of the 1% who decide what is PC and who gets black listed if they don't conform.

You say, "I don't say I like it..." I'm saying it. I don't like and although I already stated that these changes don't really affect me because I have no family. I have no significant other to worry about. I am pretty much a shut in so not having a passport or permission to attend a child's sporting event has no impact on me. I can say that I don't give a flying fiddlers fart about being in the group. As a matter of fact, I would rather not be in a group who bows to peer pressure. I find myself saying this quite often on the internet and in RL, I don't care what others say or think of me, I left that "he said- she said" nonsense behind me when I left high school.

We have overcome obstacles like viruses and diseases many time throughout our history. Why would I or anyone else feel the need give up everything I believe in so that - what - what, there is no reason for me to conform to this. It makes no sense.
 

marhawkman

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MY observation on "peer pressure".... is that it's not often actually a group consensus. Why? because different sources of pressure have inequal weights. IE some of the "peers" are leaders and others are followers, and the followers... aren't expressing their own thoughts. Thus it's not about peers, but about who yells loudest.

And in the COVID-19 case.... there's been way too much public censorship of dissent for me to trust the "consensus".... to be real. The "scientists" have even been censoring each other publicly. How am I supposed to "trust in science" if they publicly fight over who is allowed to talk? That's police state nonsense and the exact reason why the US Constitution has "Freedom of Speech".
 

Naughty_Felid

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Apologies for the delayed response. I would explain why, but well you know why it is delayed.

I don't know how old you are, Yithian. Please forgive me if you have heard all this before...

The 2 generations before me and my own generation included fought very hard to make these so called powers that be answer for their deceit. In other words for lying to us so that they can control us and benefit from our trusting that they are speaking the truth and know what's best for us. We fought back. Not in the sense that they did jail time or anything like that, but in the sense that they work for us not the other way around. There was a time when a talk show was instantly pulled off (TV) the air because a guest walked out with a picture of the flag on his t-shirt. Up until 1969, a woman could be institutionalized by a father or male guardian, for not wanting to get married and have children. Because she was considered to be a non-conformist and therefore must be mentally ill.

We cannot be saying that we want to give all these rights up and pass the power back to whomever wants to call the shots because suddenly we fall under the category of non-conformists. I don't recall getting a vote do you? Because in the past 30 years or so we have slowly allowed it to slip back into the grip of the 1% who decide what is PC and who gets black listed if they don't conform.

You say, "I don't say I like it..." I'm saying it. I don't like and although I already stated that these changes don't really affect me because I have no family. I have no significant other to worry about. I am pretty much a shut in so not having a passport or permission to attend a child's sporting event has no impact on me. I can say that I don't give a flying fiddlers fart about being in the group. As a matter of fact, I would rather not be in a group who bows to peer pressure. I find myself saying this quite often on the internet and in RL, I don't care what others say or think of me, I left that "he said- she said" nonsense behind me when I left high school.

We have overcome obstacles like viruses and diseases many time throughout our history. Why would I or anyone else feel the need give up everything I believe in so that - what - what, there is no reason for me to conform to this. It makes no sense.


Yes, I'm afraid I do find you selfish. Your post is all about you. All those rights "you" fought for did not allow you to become entitled. The people who directly followed the greatest generation I know fully support measures taken. They understood what their parents went through and understand that to beat something involves sacrifice.

As you say this epidemic doesn't affect you as you obviously live in a log cabin hundreds of miles away from others and you don't need stuff like power, the internet, medicine, processed food, running water to survive. Can I point out that all the things we take for granted need people to run them? People can't do it if they are sick or grieving for people they have lost.

Unreal.

"We have overcome obstacles like viruses and diseases many time throughout our history" - So where were you there during the various great plagues? Were you there during the Spanish Flu?

No, so it's all well and good sitting in an armchair talking about the millions of people who died, something we cannot imagine. We live in a time, the first time in our history where we have enough of an understanding to actually beat a deadly virus that in the past would have wiped out millions.

But if we can't pull together then we are screwed and seemingly with people like yourself that's going to be the case.
 
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JahaRa

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Well it's been tested many times as an anti-viral agents and it does work as one.... against certain viruses. The only real question is if it works against COVID-19.

As for "big pharma".... who do you think is selling Covid-19 vaccines?
Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Astra Zeneca in the UK & UK colony countries, and other pharmaceutical companies in other countries. Who do You think are selling Covid 19 vaccines? The only big company I don't see on the list is Merk, a subsidiary of Dow chemicals AND is the company that MAKES IVERMECTIN. They want some of the action.
 
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marhawkman

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Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Astra Zeneca in the UK & UK colony countries, and other pharmaceutical companies in other countries. Who do You think are selling Covid 19 vaccines? The only big company I don't see on the list is Merk, a subsidiary of Dow chemicals.
Yeah, so why were you complaining about "big pharma" being the push behind using Ivermectin?
 

Nosmo King

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Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Astra Zeneca in the UK & UK colony countries, and other pharmaceutical companies in other countries. Who do You think are selling Covid 19 vaccines? The only big company I don't see on the list is Merk, a subsidiary of Dow chemicals.
GlaxoSmithKline?
 

JahaRa

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Yeah, so why were you complaining about "big pharma" being the push behind using Ivermectin?
Because they are all Big Pharma and Merk is the company that sells Ivermectin!!! They want in on the action.
 

Nosmo King

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Are they selling a covid vaccine or repurposing one of their existing drugs as a "therapy for covid"?
Idk tbh, as far as I know there are very few drugs being used to help recovery, due to the NHS running nearly all the healthcare in the UK, all drugs have to be approved by 'NICE' before they can be administered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice

Dexamethasone is still being used I think.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-dexamethasone

There is a list of the biggest manufacturers in this link, 'GSK' isn't one of them but 'merck&co' is.

https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/top-suppliers/dexamethasone-manufacturers/
 

michael59

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Yes, I'm afraid I do find you selfish. Your post is all about you. All those rights "you" fought for did not allow you to become entitled. The people who directly followed the greatest generation I know fully support measures taken. They understood what their parents went through and understand that to beat something involves sacrifice.

As you say this epidemic doesn't affect you as you obviously live in a log cabin hundreds of miles away from others and you don't need stuff like power, the internet, medicine, processed food, running water to survive. Can I point out that all the things we take for granted need people to run them? People can't do it if they are sick or grieving for people they have lost.

Unreal.

"We have overcome obstacles like viruses and diseases many time throughout our history" - So where were you there during the various great plagues? Were you there during the Spanish Flu?

No, so it's all well and good sitting in an armchair talking about the millions of people who died, something we cannot imagine. We live in a time, the first time in our history where we have enough of an understanding to actually beat a deadly virus that in the past would have wiped out millions.

But if we can't pull together then we are screwed and seemingly with people like yourself that's going to be the case.

Nonsense.

Nothing that is being done today is preventing the virus from spreading and mutating. It's coming to a point where it won't matter if people are vaccinated or not, this campaign of mass vaccination of the population appears to be only facilitating this coronavirus to become deadlier...The new C.1.2. variant is evidence of that, it's possible the worse is yet to come for this pandemic...

My being able to produce a sheet of paper saying that I took experimental drugs isn't going to change that.
 

Nosmo King

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Nonsense.

Nothing that is being done today is preventing the virus from spreading and mutating. It's coming to a point where it won't matter if people are vaccinated or not, this campaign of mass vaccination of the population appears to be only facilitating this coronavirus to become deadlier...The new C.1.2. variant is evidence of that, it's possible the worse is yet to come for this pandemic...

My being able to produce a sheet of paper saying that I took experimental drugs isn't going to change that.
Some information about the C.1.2 variant, currently in a Africa, Asia and the Pacific.

"The variant they are watching, called C.1.2, has popped up across South Africa as well as in seven other countries in Africa, Asia and the Pacific, the researchers report. They're not sure whether its constellation of mutations will make it more dangerous, but it carries changes that have given other variants increased transmissibility and the ability to evade the immune system's response to some degree."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/health/new-coronavirus-variant-maybe/index.html

""It does not appear to be increasing in circulation," WHO spokesperson Margaret Harris told a U.N. briefing, adding the variant labelled C.1.2. was not currently classified as a "variant of concern" by the U.N. health agency."

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ariant-does-not-seem-be-spreading-2021-08-31/
 

JahaRa

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Nonsense.

Nothing that is being done today is preventing the virus from spreading and mutating. It's coming to a point where it won't matter if people are vaccinated or not, this campaign of mass vaccination of the population appears to be only facilitating this coronavirus to become deadlier...The new C.1.2. variant is evidence of that, it's possible the worse is yet to come for this pandemic...

My being able to produce a sheet of paper saying that I took experimental drugs isn't going to change that.
You don't have all the information. Vaccines do not make it easier for a virus to mutate, what makes it easier for a virus to mutate is allowing it to run rampant through a population. The C.1.2 variant originates in South Africa. Maybe you could do some research and see how many vaccinated people got that variant, as well as what the percentage of vaccinated is in the area of South Africa it came from.

https://health.economictimes.indiat...riant-c-1-2-may-evade-vax-protection/85785333
 

michael59

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You don't have all the information. Vaccines do not make it easier for a virus to mutate, what makes it easier for a virus to mutate is allowing it to run rampant through a population. The C.1.2 variant originates in South Africa. Maybe you could do some research and see how many vaccinated people got that variant, as well as what the percentage of vaccinated is in the area of South Africa it came from.

https://health.economictimes.indiat...riant-c-1-2-may-evade-vax-protection/85785333

Did you read the article from the link you posted?

New Delhi: A new variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus which cause Covid-19, has been detected in South Africa and many other countries globally which could be more transmissible and evade protection provided by vaccines, according to study.

Scientists from National Institute for Communicable Diseases (NICD) and the KwaZulu-Natal Research Innovation and Sequencing Platform (KRISP) in South Africa said the potential variant of interest, C.1.2, was first detected in the country in May this year.

C.1.2 has been found in China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Mauritius, England, New Zealand, Portugal and Switzerland as of August 13, they said.


According to the yet-to-be peer-reviewed study posted on the preprint repository MedRxiv on August 24, C.1.2 has mutated substantially compared to C.1, one of the lineages which dominated the SARS-CoV-2 infections in the first wave in South Africa.

The new variant has more mutations than other variants of concern (VOCs) or variants of interest (VOIs) detected worldwide so far, the researchers said.

They noted that the number of available sequences of C.1.2 may be an underrepresentation of the spread and frequency of the variant in South Africa and around the world. The study found consistent increases in the number of C.1.2 genomes in South Africa each month, rising from 0.2% of genomes sequenced in May to 1.6% in June and then to 2% in July.

“This is similar to the increases seen with the Beta and Delta variants in the country during early detection,” the authors of the study said. According to the study, C.1.2 lineage has a mutation rate of about 41.8 mutations per year, which is about twice as fast as the current global mutation rate of the other variants. PTI
 

michael59

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Yes I did read it. What makes you think I didn't read it? I wouldn't have posted if I hadn't read it.

My point is that it's running rampant through the population whether you are vaccinated or not.

So strange that lil'ol selfish me hasn't contracted any variants. Haven't even had so much as the sniffles. I'm saying that my natural immune system rocks and I am not taking any drugs until I am comfortable about the long term effects they will have on us and your link reaffirms that for me.
 

JahaRa

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My point is that it's running rampant through the population whether you are vaccinated or not.

So strange that lil'ol selfish me hasn't contracted any variants. Haven't even had so much as the sniffles. I'm saying that my natural immune system rocks and I am not taking any drugs until I am comfortable about the long term effects they will have on us and your link reaffirms that for me.
I didn't see anything referring to whether people who got that variant were vaccinated or not, AND it mentioned that this is just a variant to watch, that there is not enough information to know whether it is more virulent yet.

And it is certainly your choice whether you get a vaccine or not, but at the very least you need to understand how virus' work and how vaccines work.
 

Lb8535

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This is a nice example of open source intelligence (OSINT) detective work:
Long thread but interesting:
Statistically this is meaningless. As long as no more than 50% of unvaccinated people are infected, her statement will be likely be true. She's wearing scrubs, I assume she was masked at work which would make her odds better. Or possibly she had an asymptomatic case but gave it to r>1 people. Or possibly she's naturally immune. Who cares? This is not important or persuasive data about anything.
 

michael59

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I didn't see anything referring to whether people who got that variant were vaccinated or not, AND it mentioned that this is just a variant to watch, that there is not enough information to know whether it is more virulent yet.

And it is certainly your choice whether you get a vaccine or not, but at the very least you need to understand how virus' work and how vaccines work.

I heard and understood you the first time, JaHaRa. And the 2nd and the 3rd and the 4th.....:yawn:
 
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