Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

[ramonmercado]

Some rather dangerous anti-vaxxers.

Opposition to Covid vaccinations has come in many forms, but none stranger than the "sovereign citizen" defence.

It uses defunct ancient English law to try to challenge regulations. Some anti-vaccination protesters outside schools and hospitals have used this to hand out fake legal documents to teachers, parents and health workers. Others have sought to remove Covid patients from intensive care wards, citing non-existent "common law" empowering them to do so.

They also accuse the government of "vaccine genocide" in videos shared on social media.

Some groups have even held training camps for their members. Images have emerged of black-clad men being coached in "direct action" techniques.

Followers of "sovereign citizen" and "freeman on the land" conspiracy theories wrongly believe they possess the legal power to bring leading politicians, civil servants and scientists before so-called "common law courts". They allege "crimes" over Covid restrictions and vaccinations, even though such claims have no basis in law.

But that has not deterred a newly-formed group calling itself Alpha Men Assemble, which combines anti-vaccine and sovereign citizen beliefs. It has been holding training sessions in several UK locations where volunteers prepare for "direct action", such as breaking through police lines, marching formations and sparring.

https://www.bbc.com/news/59870550

 

[uair01]

This is the blog of Dominic Cummings:
https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/parties-photos-trolleys-variants

If you skip the politics and go straight to: LAB LEAK EVIDENCE, then there is some really interesting information:

This is just a small part, there is more at the link:

Many UK scientists jumped far too fast on the ‘don’t discuss lab leaks / it’s racist to discuss lab leaks’ bus in spring 2020. The UK Government was too quick to echo this consensus publicly (not the trolley’s fault, he was badly advised and to be fair to him he did try to dig into this). There are serious questions to answer about internal HMG work on this subject including classified briefings given to the PM in spring-summer 2020. I can’t discuss these but I can say that I hope the Cabinet Secretary and other key figures at the top of SIS and GCHQ have reviewed performance.

As many have pointed out, despite the enormity of the covid disaster, we are still allowing extremely dangerous research to continue in labs without adequate safety regimes! And of course there is practically no mainstream media coverage, just like in 2019 when I blogged on it!

And we are failing to build many things we should be building, here and across the world, to help detect future natural or manmade pandemic threats and ensure they are suppressed one way or another. Follow @kesvelt and @geochurch for details.

 

[Lb8535]

Some rather dangerous anti-vaxxers.

Opposition to Covid vaccinations has come in many forms, but none stranger than the "sovereign citizen" defence.

It uses defunct ancient English law to try to challenge regulations. Some anti-vaccination protesters outside schools and hospitals have used this to hand out fake legal documents to teachers, parents and health workers. Others have sought to remove Covid patients from intensive care wards, citing non-existent "common law" empowering them to do so.

They also accuse the government of "vaccine genocide" in videos shared on social media.

Some groups have even held training camps for their members. Images have emerged of black-clad men being coached in "direct action" techniques.

Followers of "sovereign citizen" and "freeman on the land" conspiracy theories wrongly believe they possess the legal power to bring leading politicians, civil servants and scientists before so-called "common law courts". They allege "crimes" over Covid restrictions and vaccinations, even though such claims have no basis in law.

But that has not deterred a newly-formed group calling itself Alpha Men Assemble, which combines anti-vaccine and sovereign citizen beliefs. It has been holding training sessions in several UK locations where volunteers prepare for "direct action", such as breaking through police lines, marching formations and sparring.

https://www.bbc.com/news/59870550

I could go on about the stupidity/ignorance demonstrated but I thought these "sov citizen" bozos were restricted to the US? Exactly how can a group claim a non-existent legal status in two different countries with wildly different constitutions and bodies of law? Honestly another example of people feeling so un-empowered in this society that they go right over the flat edge.

 

[kesavaross]

I could go on about the stupidity/ignorance demonstrated but I thought these "sov citizen" bozos were restricted to the US? Exactly how can a group claim a non-existent legal status in two different countries with wildly different constitutions and bodies of law? Honestly another example of people feeling so un-empowered in this society that they go right over the flat edge.

If the story is true that is......

 

[Lb8535]

If the story is true that is......

The same basic info appeared in quite a range of newspapers but a search brings up no web site or fb. From which we deduce that whoever they are they pay a PR person but you have to know someone to get to the web site.

 

[kesavaross]

The same basic info appeared in quite a range of newspapers but a search brings up no web site or fb. From which we deduce that whoever they are they pay a PR person but you have to know someone to get to the web site.

Or we could equally deduce they don't exist.

I'm not stating they do or do not exist. I guess my point is that we read articles and just assume what's been written is true whether it's in one newspaper or lots of them.

Generally speaking these types of stories usually have only one source.

 

[Lb8535]

WEll

Or we could equally deduce they don't exist.

I'm not stating they do or do not exist. I guess my point is that we read articles and just assume what's been written is true whether it's in one newspaper or lots of them.

Generally speaking these types of stories usually have only one source.

They do exist in the US although not in that form. They tend to be tax-dodgers and I've run across a few. And there is a small group who forges house title documents based on their own superior knowledge of the law and you come home to find the locks changed and have to call the police to drag them out. Pests and marks who have always paid someone to teach them about this radical and top secret knowledge.

 

[kesavaross]

WEll
They do exist in the US although not in that form. They tend to be tax-dodgers and I've run across a few. And there is a small group who forges house title documents based on their own superior knowledge of the law and you come home to find the locks changed and have to call the police to drag them out. Pests and marks who have always paid someone to teach them about this radical and top secret knowledge.

Those groups may exist in the US. However my only point was about that article on the BBC website.

 

[uair01]

I could go on about the stupidity/ignorance demonstrated but I thought these "sov citizen" bozos were restricted to the US? Exactly how can a group claim a non-existent legal status in two different countries with wildly different constitutions and bodies of law? Honestly another example of people feeling so un-empowered in this society that they go right over the flat edge.

Nope. They're also blooming in Germany. I'm reading a book on them right now. It's amazing, hilarious, frightening and depressing all mixed together.

Some comments are in English:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/4361762692

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show...h?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=wDdihEMT6G&rank=2

 

[brownmane]

Years (>10) ago pre-pandemic,, a friend of mine talked about the "free man" laws that she believed to exist. So this particular conspiracy idea is not new, nor connected to just one country. Though there was no additional "training" needed to declare yourself a free person.

 

[hunck]

Or we could equally deduce they don't exist.

I'm not stating they do or do not exist. I guess my point is that we read articles and just assume what's been written is true whether it's in one newspaper or lots of them.

Generally speaking these types of stories usually have only one source.

A group of the Alpha Men were filmed on manoeuvres somewhere in a field, can’t remember the location, on Ch 4 news the other night. Some were interviewed. Mostly men but a few women there as well. How many there are in the country I have no idea. There could’ve been around 150 - 200 at the meeting. I don’t doubt they exist.

Unless someone is doing it as a laugh for likes on fb that is.

 

[kamalktk]

All I know if I got two shots and the booster and I still have crap 5g service. I was promised 5g chips in every shot!

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Here a 32 year old man just died of the virus, refused to get vaccinated, ill for weeks and did not go to the hospital.
Other than that, those vaccinated who are testing positive seem to have mild symptoms if any.

 

[Iris]

Yes, just had an email from a friend whose husband won't be vaccinated. They think he got the virus and was quite ill. She is fully vaxed and only had mild symptoms.

 

[michael59]

Here a 32 year old man just died of the virus, refused to get vaccinated, ill for weeks and did not go to the hospital.
Other than that, those vaccinated who are testing positive seem to have mild symptoms if any.

That depends on the variant.

 

[Lb8535]

Not here.

That depends on the variant.

Not here. Last I saw 99.5+% of fully analysed cases ( so people sick enough to actually come to the attention of someone who is counting in a places where they have a gene-sequencing program) are omicron and of those hospitalized a very huge majority are unvaccinated.

 

[michael59]

Not here.
Not here. Last I saw 99.5+% of fully analysed cases ( so people sick enough to actually come to the attention of someone who is counting in a places where they have a gene-sequencing program) are omicron and of those hospitalized a very huge majority are unvaccinated.

Why would you be hospitalized for omicron, it's the same symptoms as a cold? Sometimes even milder symptoms than a cold.

 

[Beresford]

Why would you be hospitalized for omicron, it's the same symptoms as a cold? Sometimes even milder symptoms than a cold.

Not always. It can, and still does, hospitalise some people. And does lead to death in some instances.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I could go on about the stupidity/ignorance demonstrated but I thought these "sov citizen" bozos were restricted to the US? Exactly how can a group claim a non-existent legal status in two different countries with wildly different constitutions and bodies of law?...

I'm pretty sure that most of these movements fall back on a nebulous concept of some sort of natural and universal 'common law' which is actually very different to the legitimate legal concept of common law that is part of the system that acts over a large proportion of the world's population - but which is possibly a confused reference to the ideas of 'unwritten' and 'ancient' which often accompanies descriptions of the latter's development. Actual common law, as evidenced in the English legal system, lacks the complex codification of civil law; this is the 'unwritten' part - one which allows for adaptation, evolution and nuance and is maybe an odd reference for a group, or groups, whose central tenets seem to be based on the concept that some 'laws' are permanent, unadaptable and written in stone.

This (these) movement(s) is (are) not unknown in the UK. 'Freemen of the Land' seemed to be the favoured branding when they first became a thing in the UK. A few years back they even had a billboard campaign based - I seem to recall - on the 'legal name fraud' concept. They - or something very like them - also tried to take over Edinburgh Castle last year. That lot referenced Magna Carta - English common law and Admiralty Law are also often used. I'm pretty sure they are also quite deliberately cuckooing the anti-vax movement.

...They tend to be tax-dodgers and I've run across a few. And there is a small group who forges house title documents based on their own superior knowledge of the law and you come home to find the locks changed and have to call the police to drag them out. Pests and marks who have always paid someone to teach them about this radical and top secret knowledge.

Absolutely.

As I said on the Freemen On The Land / Lawful Rebellion thread (knew we had one somewhere):

To be honest, what really pissed me off about his whole argument - and nothing I've seen has done much to disabuse me of the feeling - was that it was all so grindingly petty. Seems to me that this really isn't a glorious blow for life, liberty and individual freedom - rather a way of justifying bad driving and getting out of paying TV licenses and willingly accrued debts.

I'd forgotten that I also demonstrated (at #11 on that thread ) how you can legitimately use the strawman / legal name fraud to get out of buying a round and/or punch someone in the face. It's all true, I tell you; under our ancient common legal rights as not written down in Welsh Mountain Law and the Seven Protocols of Doncaster you cannot be arrested and imprisoned by the legally illegitimate forces of oppression for such actions.

At least not on a Friday.

In March.

Or something.

 

[Lb8535]

Why would you be hospitalized for omicron, it's the same symptoms as a cold? Sometimes even milder symptoms than a cold.

It's all probability. Very low probability, mostly related to immunocompromised status (age, recent radiation therapy, diabetes, immune system diseases,high bloood pressure). The danger for stillbirth and miscarriage appears to be constant across all variants, as is the probability of a "long covid" infection.

 

[michael59]

Not always. It can, and still does, hospitalise some people. And does lead to death in some instances.

I didn't even notice it when I caught it and I am not vaccinated. I did catch the first wave of covid and therefore I believe it gave me antibodies. I don't believe that antibodies wane over time. Antibodies are like muscles, they have memory.

 

[michael59]

It's all probability. Very low probability, mostly related to immunocompromised status (age, recent radiation therapy, diabetes, immune system diseases,high bloood pressure). The danger for stillbirth and miscarriage appears to be constant across all variants, as is the probability of a "long covid" infection.

Strange. I have all the danger signs that are attributed to a unvaccinated person. I also swear that I was at deaths door with that first wave of covid that I fought for the better part of 6 weeks.

Lets face it. We were all lied to right from the start.

 

[Lb8535]

Strange. I have all the danger signs that are attributed to a unvaccinated person. I also swear that I was at deaths door with that first wave of covid that I fought for the better part of 6 weeks.

Lets face it. We were all lied to right from the start.

I don't follow your reasoning. There seems to be an expectation that whatever happens in the world someone somewhere "knows". It's perfectly possibly in fact likely that no one "knows" - but I accept that in their area of expertise "someone" knows more than I do and the trick is to have the discernment to determine who those "someones" are. I also am fully vaccinated but fall into several risk categories so I expect any infection would be worse for me than for the average person.

 

[EnolaGaia]

... I don't believe that antibodies wane over time. Antibodies are like muscles, they have memory.

The levels of antibodies circulating in one's system will wane over time unless additional antibody production is triggered by infection or vaccination effects.

Whether, and to what extent, your immune system is able to rapidly ramp up antibody protection when re-triggered by a later event is something of an open question.

Research to date suggests the two other deployed components of a healthy immune system defense - B-cells and T-cells - do not consistently weaken much if at all at 6 months post-triggering-event (the longest timespan I've seen for which reliable data has been collected so far).

 

[michael59]

The levels of antibodies circulating in one's system will wane over time unless additional antibody production is triggered by infection or vaccination effects.

Whether, and to what extent, your immune system is able to rapidly ramp up antibody protection when re-triggered by a later event is something of an open question.

Research to date suggests the two other deployed components of a healthy immune system defense - B-cells and T-cells - do not consistently weaken much if at all at 6 months post-triggering-event (the longest timespan I've seen for which reliable data has been collected so far).

I can only go by my own personal experience since I am neither a medical professional or a scientist.

I am not exaggerating when I say that I have gone decades between cold & flu symptoms and even when I had symptoms they lasted a mere 24 hours at best.

 

[michael59]

I don't follow your reasoning.

That's okay, most don't. Thanks for trying.

 

[Solexman]

I can only go by my own personal experience since I am neither a medical professional or a scientist.

I am not exaggerating when I say that I have gone decades between cold & flu symptoms and even when I had symptoms they lasted a mere 24 hours at best.

Lucky you. However many people, the elderly, the ill, the immuno suppressed are not.
So to say you had it and it was really mild so what’s the big deal? Is not really the point.
I was once caught in a flashover fire and survived with minor burns. That doesn’t mean fire can’t kill you.
I was just lucky.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

I can only go by my own personal experience since I am neither a medical professional or a scientist.

I am not exaggerating when I say that I have gone decades between cold & flu symptoms and even when I had symptoms they lasted a mere 24 hours at best.

I am not sure I understand your position completely. It seems to me that you are stating what your symptoms were, and the severity of them - which of course you are in good position to know - and then extrapolate from those symptoms to what many other persons' symptoms should be - which is not backed up by the published medical facts.

Additionally, it seems that using your basis of very mild symptoms leads to your conjecture that medical and governmental authorities are misleading the public about Covid.

If I am wrong in my interpretation of your position, I apologize. Please help us understand. Also, if you could give sources, that would be helpful as well.

My understanding of Covid antibody development and longevity is that this biological defense response is quite specific to the virus, and that a very wide range of responses are possible. Also, the baseline health of the person plays a big role. As does nutrition for immune responses. Covid is a new threat; is airborne; mutates easily, apparently; and has the entire world as a naive population. All these factors make for a complicated disease and complicated health responses.

I am not a physician nor virologist, but for years I was involved in planning for these types of disasters for the US Federal government. So, a kind of semi-educated layman. Based both on my prior professional experience, and my personal experience with long Covid, I think that it is real, can be life-threatening, and that the worst public damage comes from those who willfully mislead the public because it is beneficial to them individually.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Strange. I have all the danger signs that are attributed to a unvaccinated person. I also swear that I was at deaths door with that first wave of covid that I fought for the better part of 6 weeks.

Lets face it. We were all lied to right from the start.

Please tell us:
1. Who were the people who lied - their names and positions?
2. What exactly were the lies?
3. Your sources upon which you base your conclusion that "we were all lied to from the start"?

 

[marhawkman]

I am not sure I understand your position completely. It seems to me that you are stating what your symptoms were, and the severity of them - which of course you are in good position to know - and then extrapolate from those symptoms to what many other persons' symptoms should be - which is not backed up by the published medical facts.

Additionally, it seems that using your basis of very mild symptoms leads to your conjecture that medical and governmental authorities are misleading the public about Covid.

If I am wrong in my interpretation of your position, I apologize. Please help us understand. Also, if you could give sources, that would be helpful as well.

My understanding of Covid antibody development and longevity is that this biological defense response is quite specific to the virus, and that a very wide range of responses are possible. Also, the baseline health of the person plays a big role. As does nutrition for immune responses. Covid is a new threat; is airborne; mutates easily, apparently; and has the entire world as a naive population. All these factors make for a complicated disease and complicated health responses.

I am not a physician nor virologist, but for years I was involved in planning for these types of disasters for the US Federal government. So, a kind of semi-educated layman. Based both on my prior professional experience, and my personal experience with long Covid, I think that it is real, can be life-threatening, and that the worst public damage comes from those who willfully mislead the public because it is beneficial to them individually.

As someone who uses military NBC training as the main source of information... this is a virus where air filtration is needed to ensure safety. Paper masks don't do that.

At any rate, the US CDC used to have figures on their website about the lethality of Covid-19.... Less than 1% and this is NOT factoring out the cases where it's someone listed as a Covid Casualty solely because they were exposed before they died. So the actually figures would be even lower. At that point the figures showed around half the population to get exposed were in fact passive carriers of it, and most of the rest had weak symptoms. Then you add in how we don't actually know the ratio of deaths that are actually due to Covid because the official figures include people who didn't even die of illness.

Sure it's a real virus, and might kill people, but... personal anecdote? More people close to my family have died of the vaccine than the virus. :/