Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Endlessly Amazed

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Note however that the various experiments that I have seen assume "room temperature" at upwards of 65 F. One of the characteristics of C19 is that it survives much better at colder temperatures, to the extent that if frozen it appeared to be immortal, (ie - in your freezer). This should be taken into account when dealing with uninsulated garages in the northern part of the country, where surface survival might be pretty long with the exception of surfaces like cloth where the stuff is completely dried out very fast. I wish I could give the source for the immortality info, but I did a lot of reading from professional testing environments early on because the data was so all over the map.

Yes - excellent points! The possibility of viable Covid on surfaces turned me into a disinfecting freak with packages. I guess it doesn't hurt to disinfect even for a slight risk.
 

Beresford

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During the worst of the pandemic the death rate hardly increased at all. Spend some time, do your own research and go on the Office for National Statistics and check it all out.

What I find odd is that all the people I know who have covid 19 now, or recently, are all vaccinated.

I'll keep my views to myself although it's obvious what I'm thinking.
That isn't true. As an example, excess deaths in April 2020 were nearly 44,000. The death rate during the peak was the worst since World War II.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...athsinenglandandwales/march2020todecember2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55631693

With regard to your point about people with COVID being vaccinated, that will be the case when a large majority have received the vaccine. It should also be pointed out that with the exception of over 75s and vulnerable people (who have now had a fourth), most adults received their third jag more than 6 months ago and the effectiveness of that booster will now be waning. These people are now overdue their fourth, and that programme is due to commence in September.
 

kesavaross

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That isn't true. As an example, excess deaths in April 2020 were nearly 44,000. The death rate during the peak was the worst since World War II.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...athsinenglandandwales/march2020todecember2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55631693

With regard to your point about people with COVID being vaccinated, that will be the case when a large majority have received the vaccine. It should also be pointed out that with the exception of over 75s and vulnerable people (who have now had a fourth), most adults received their third jag more than 6 months ago and the effectiveness of that booster will now be waning. These people are now overdue their fourth, and that programme is due to commence in September.
I shall check the ONS again.

This vaccine is becoming less like a vaccine as time goes by. So now it's a booster every 6 months or so presumably for the rest of the persons life. First it was just one shot to end the pandemic, then two, then a booster and now another booster.

It was a nurse who lives on my floor who said nearly every patient with just covid or ill with something else plus covid are virtually all vaccinated and it's been like that for over a year. Her own view was it was a pretty useless vaccine.
 

Mythopoeika

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This vaccine is becoming less like a vaccine as time goes by. So now it's a booster every 6 months or so presumably for the rest of the persons life. First it was just one shot to end the pandemic, then two, then a booster and now another booster.
Funny, that. I did predict that something like this would happen.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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I shall check the ONS again.

This vaccine is becoming less like a vaccine as time goes by. So now it's a booster every 6 months or so presumably for the rest of the persons life. First it was just one shot to end the pandemic, then two, then a booster and now another booster.

It was a nurse who lives on my floor who said nearly every patient with just covid or ill with something else plus covid are virtually all vaccinated and it's been like that for over a year. Her own view was it was a pretty useless vaccine.

Please post your ONS findings here.

The annual flu shot here in the US is a vaccine, but it does not confer complete immunity to the person. It is formulated months before the actual infection season when most people get sick. It is formulated as a best guess of which flu strains are the most likely to occur. The covid vaccine is the same. In both cases, the virus mutates on an ongoing basis, which makes it impossible to foresee what it will be months in the future.

I think that the initial covid vaccines (and social distancing) did reduce greatly the pandemic in the US. The pandemic meaning the high rate of very ill or dying people. In the US, the hospitals are no longer full and overwhelmed by covid patients.

That you know a nurse who has the opinion the covid vaccine is useless does not refute the millions of cases of evidence of the changing death rate - from periods of no vaccine to vaccine - from different countries.

What is your definition of a vaccine?
 

kesavaross

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Please post your ONS findings here.

The annual flu shot here in the US is a vaccine, but it does not confer complete immunity to the person. It is formulated months before the actual infection season when most people get sick. It is formulated as a best guess of which flu strains are the most likely to occur. The covid vaccine is the same. In both cases, the virus mutates on an ongoing basis, which makes it impossible to foresee what it will be months in the future.

I think that the initial covid vaccines (and social distancing) did reduce greatly the pandemic in the US. The pandemic meaning the high rate of very ill or dying people. In the US, the hospitals are no longer full and overwhelmed by covid patients.

That you know a nurse who has the opinion the covid vaccine is useless does not refute the millions of cases of evidence of the changing death rate - from periods of no vaccine to vaccine - from different countries.

What is your definition of a vaccine?
With any pandemic the infection rate goes up to start with, it peaks, and then naturally goes down. With Covid, it may, and I stress the 'may', not have been the actual vaccine that caused a reduction in numbers.

My definition of a vaccine without looking the word up, is something that prevents 99% or so of the recipients of catching what ever it was they were vaccinated against.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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With any pandemic the infection rate goes up to start with, it peaks, and then naturally goes down. With Covid, it may, and I stress the 'may', not have been the actual vaccine that caused a reduction in numbers.

My definition of a vaccine without looking the word up, is something that prevents 99% or so of the recipients of catching what ever it was they were vaccinated against.
Thank you for giving your definition of a vaccine. Mine is different.

The evidence, at least in the US, from 2021, is that the people who received the vaccine and subsequently got sick, had very different results than the people in the same time period who did not receive the vaccine and got sick. The medical research community had the ability to track and record the different covid strains at that time, so this was an apples-to-apples comparison. I found this evidence convincing.

If a covid vaccine was not available, then the pandemic would have, as you wrote, increased, peaked, and then gone down. However, this may have taken years in which millions of people died and other millions had been permanently damaged. I prefer an outcome in which the number of people killed or damaged is reduced.
 

uair01

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Here is an excellent review of a book on the lab leak versus natural sources hypotheses. It critiques the initial unanimous rejection of the lab leak hypothesis. But it concludes that neither hypothesis can be proved nor disproved yet. It also describes the Bayesian change of mind of the author of the summary. Enjoyable!

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/your-book-review-viral
 

kesavaross

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Thank you for giving your definition of a vaccine. Mine is different.

The evidence, at least in the US, from 2021, is that the people who received the vaccine and subsequently got sick, had very different results than the people in the same time period who did not receive the vaccine and got sick. The medical research community had the ability to track and record the different covid strains at that time, so this was an apples-to-apples comparison. I found this evidence convincing.

If a covid vaccine was not available, then the pandemic would have, as you wrote, increased, peaked, and then gone down. However, this may have taken years in which millions of people died and other millions had been permanently damaged. I prefer an outcome in which the number of people killed or damaged is reduced.
Just out of interest, before I look it up, what's your definition of a vaccine?

This pandemic was in the main serious only to those either old and frail, immune compromised or already seriously ill. For the over whelming majority who got covid, they recovered.

For the people who received the vaccine and got covid versus those who got covid but were unvaccinated, was the general health of both groups similar before catching covid or were they different?

A comparison video I watched ages ago done by a properly qualified statistician came to the opposite conclusion. I've now no way of finding that video as I don't remember his name.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Just out of interest, before I look it up, what's your definition of a vaccine?

This pandemic was in the main serious only to those either old and frail, immune compromised or already seriously ill. For the over whelming majority who got covid, they recovered.

For the people who received the vaccine and got covid versus those who got covid but were unvaccinated, was the general health of both groups similar before catching covid or were they different?

A comparison video I watched ages ago done by a properly qualified statistician came to the opposite conclusion. I've now no way of finding that video as I don't remember his name.

My definition: a substance which when administered (usually an injection or orally given) will reduce or stop a future infection.

from: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine

Definition of vaccine

1: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as
a: an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)a trivalent influenza vaccineoral polio vaccineMany vaccines are made from the virus itself, either weakened or killed, which will induce antibodies to bind and kill a live virus. Measles vaccines are just that, weakened (or attenuated) measles viruses.— Ann Finkbeiner et al.… a tetanus toxoid-containing vaccine might be recommended for wound management in a pregnant woman if [greater than or equal to] 5 years have elapsed … .— Mark Sawyer et al.In addition the subunit used in a vaccine must be carefully chosen, because not all components of a pathogen represent beneficial immunological targets.— Thomas J. Matthews and Dani P. Bolognesi
b: a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)… Moderna's coronavirus vaccine … works by injecting a small piece of mRNA from the coronavirus that codes for the virus' spike protein. … mRNA vaccine spurs the body to produce the spike protein internally. That, in turn, triggers an immune response.— Susie Neilson et al. The revolutionary messenger RNA vaccines that are now available have been over a decade in development. … Messenger RNA enters the cell cytoplasm and produces protein from the spike of the Covid-19 virus.— Thomas F. Cozza Viral vector vaccines, another recent type of vaccine, are similar to DNA and RNA vaccines, but the virus's genetic information is housed in an attenuated virus (unrelated to the disease-causing virus) that helps to promote host cell fusion and entry.— Priya Kaur
NOTE: Vaccines may contain adjuvants (such as aluminum hydroxide) designed to enhance the strength and duration of the body's immune response.
2: a preparation or immunotherapy that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against noninfectious substances, agents, or diseases The U.S. Army is also testing a ricin vaccine and has reported success in mice.— Sue Goetinck Ambrose… many of the most promising new cancer vaccines use dendritic cells to train the immune system to recognize tumor cells.— Patrick Barry

______

"For the people who received the vaccine and got covid versus those who got covid but were unvaccinated, was the general health of both groups similar before catching covid or were they different?"

Answer: these groups were very evenly matched in terms of general health. In other words, a valid comparison.
 

michael59

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Just out of interest, before I look it up, what's your definition of a vaccine?

This pandemic was in the main serious only to those either old and frail, immune compromised or already seriously ill. For the over whelming majority who got covid, they recovered.

For the people who received the vaccine and got covid versus those who got covid but were unvaccinated, was the general health of both groups similar before catching covid or were they different?

A comparison video I watched ages ago done by a properly qualified statistician came to the opposite conclusion. I've now no way of finding that video as I don't remember his name.

Finding anything that may refute the vaccine is becoming more and more difficult to find. The internet, like the news, is being censored.

Like I already said, I was hit by the first wave and have not been ill since. Yet, if I were to want to get vaccinated I would have to take all four shots before I would be considered up to date. Why is that? I have not had a flu shot either, but I would not have to take every flu shot ever given since 1945 before I am considered up to date.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Finding anything that may refute the vaccine is becoming more and more difficult to find. The internet, like the news, is being censored.

Like I already said, I was hit by the first wave and have not been ill since. Yet, if I were to want to get vaccinated I would have to take all four shots before I would be considered up to date. Why is that? I have not had a flu shot either, but I would not have to take every flu shot ever given since 1945 before I am considered up to date.

Re Covid and flu vaccines: both viruses are the same in rapid mutation, and the vaccines are changed to reflect that. However, flu and covid viruses are different in their recency to the human population and other aspects as well. This changes their relative virulence.

Your logic of refuting or disbelieving the different advice about flu and covid vaccines is based on the assumption that both viruses are alike and therefore the vaccine regimen should be the same. Much evidence exists that this is not the case.

I disagree that the news is being censored. If you access medical or epidemiological journals through your local library (in the US and I believe in Canada as well), you can actually read up on this.

That you persist in claiming the "Blast" research is valid and reliable indicates to me that you are not serious about doing the research.
 

michael59

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Re Covid and flu vaccines: both viruses are the same in rapid mutation, and the vaccines are changed to reflect that. However, flu and covid viruses are different in their recency to the human population and other aspects as well. This changes their relative virulence.

Your logic of refuting or disbelieving the different advice about flu and covid vaccines is based on the assumption that both viruses are alike and therefore the vaccine regimen should be the same. Much evidence exists that this is not the case.

I disagree that the news is being censored. If you access medical or epidemiological journals through your local library (in the US and I believe in Canada as well), you can actually read up on this.

That you persist in claiming the "Blast" research is valid and reliable indicates to me that you are not serious about doing the research.

Well, you told me, didn't you! lol

I have been and continue daily to research as much as I can. The fact that my opinion differs from yours and many others is part of life.
 

michael59

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I just want to say that I am not the only person that feels differently about the vaccine. I have posted many doctors that share different opinions in this thread and yet the only one who never gets disputed with is Fauci.




I am posting this one because I'm wondering how long this Journalists tweet will remain before it is taken down. I do not know how to remove the picture but this post is in no way meant to be political.

And although Endlessly Amazed says that I have been making assumptions, I haven't. I am asking a question. I have not persisted in posting and claiming that the Blast research is valid and reliable. I made one post regarding the Blast research.

Your logic of refuting or disbelieving the different advice about flu and covid vaccines is based on the assumption that both viruses are alike and therefore the vaccine regimen should be the same. Much evidence exists that this is not the case.

As to what I quoted above, if you don't ask questions you don't get answers. You are not the authority on Covid19 - no one is because it changes constantly. Yet all we seem to receive from you and JaHaRa is that we just don't understand how a virus works.

This video is 6:31 long and I find the entire clip informative, but the last minute is particularly interesting, @Endlessly Amazed.

Heavily Vaxxed Japan’s Covid Surge Turns Deadly: Hospitalizations Accelerate & Death Toll Growing​



Here is the video that TrialSite News refers to when mentioning Dr. Birx

Dr. Deborah Birx: We 'OVERPLAYED' Vaccines, I Knew They Would NOT Protect Against Infection​


Briahna Joy Gray and Robby Soave react to Dr. Deborah Birx saying her team overplayed vaccines during her time as Donald Trump's White House coronavirus response coordinator. Rising is a weekday morning show with bipartisan hosts that breaks the mold of morning TV by taking viewers inside the halls of Washington power like never before. The show leans into the day's political cycle with cutting edge analysis from DC insiders who can predict what is going to happen. It also sets the day's political agenda by breaking exclusive news with a team of scoop-driven reporters and demanding answers during interviews with the country's most important political newsmakers.
 

Lb8535

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What isn't being said is that is exactly the same for many other coronaviruses that have been around and mutating for years. Those also kill people as well except it doesn't or didn't get plastered and broadcast all over the papers and media. It was just accepted as a part of life. It's also the same for many other common cold and influenza viruses. Most surfaces are covered in bacteria as well. For instance, when a door is opened say into a shop, how many other people have touched that door?

During the worst of the pandemic the death rate hardly increased at all. Spend some time, do your own research and go on the Office for National Statistics and check it all out.

What I find odd is that all the people I know who have covid 19 now, or recently, are all vaccinated. My neighbour who lives in the flat below mine has covid yet again and has tested positive. This is the 3rd or 4th time he's had it. He, last week out of genuine concern, yet again, has put a note through everyones door on his floor and the one above and below. (I live in a tower block). He wrote he's feeling bad, sore throat, temperature, etc, but thank god he's had the vaccine three times or it could be a lot worse. So how am I supposed to catch covid from him? Through a 9 inch concrete floor? If he's staying indoors until he tests negative.... He's fallen victim to the fear factor as opposed to the common sense factor.

I'll keep my views to myself although it's obvious what I'm thinking.
All those people who are sick now and are vaccinated are also not hospitalized. Which is the point of the vaccination.
 

Lb8535

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Yes - excellent points! The possibility of viable Covid on surfaces turned me into a disinfecting freak with packages. I guess it doesn't hurt to disinfect even for a slight risk.
Yes I've modified a little over the last two years, but interesting that the various CDC notes on contagion have made me more aware of other sources of disease. Overall I'm more careful about all groceries and take-out than I was and probably will remain so. In the course of which I've been astounded at the volume of wrapping and boxes I throw out before the ultimate contents come into the house. We have way too much in pretty unnecessary cartons in the western world.
 

Ringo

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Yes I've modified a little over the last two years, but interesting that the various CDC notes on contagion have made me more aware of other sources of disease. Overall I'm more careful about all groceries and take-out than I was and probably will remain so. In the course of which I've been astounded at the volume of wrapping and boxes I throw out before the ultimate contents come into the house. We have way too much in pretty unnecessary cartons in the western world.
Yep. Recycling is a civic duty and national sport here in Sweden. Each household seperates their own cardboard, glass, plastic, metal, newspapers and food waste and then has to dispose of it in the appropriate containers placed around the city. It doesn't get collected for you. Which means each household has a cupboard or a garage full of bags of recycling until someone makes the treck to the recycling centre.

There you have to seperate coloured glass from clear, hard plastics from soft, metal caps taken off bottles, plastic srew tops taken off cardbord milk and yoghurt conatiners, newspapers from envelopes, electrical from household, polystyrene can't go in the same as plastic etc etc.

But when it comes to cardboard when have mountains of the stuff each week. The boxes are always too large for the contents and ordering from Amazon is a nightmare waiting to happen.

Hint to cereal makers - why not make the contents settle yourself before you put them into a smaller cardboard box?

Edit: Edited to include a little sunday rant.
 

JahaRa

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I just want to say that I am not the only person that feels differently about the vaccine. I have posted many doctors that share different opinions in this thread and yet the only one who never gets disputed with is Fauci.




I am posting this one because I'm wondering how long this Journalists tweet will remain before it is taken down. I do not know how to remove the picture but this post is in no way meant to be political.

And although Endlessly Amazed says that I have been making assumptions, I haven't. I am asking a question. I have not persisted in posting and claiming that the Blast research is valid and reliable. I made one post regarding the Blast research.



As to what I quoted above, if you don't ask questions you don't get answers. You are not the authority on Covid19 - no one is because it changes constantly. Yet all we seem to receive from you and JaHaRa is that we just don't understand how a virus works.

This video is 6:31 long and I find the entire clip informative, but the last minute is particularly interesting, @Endlessly Amazed.

Heavily Vaxxed Japan’s Covid Surge Turns Deadly: Hospitalizations Accelerate & Death Toll Growing​



Here is the video that TrialSite News refers to when mentioning Dr. Birx

Dr. Deborah Birx: We 'OVERPLAYED' Vaccines, I Knew They Would NOT Protect Against Infection​

1. Doctors are human, they will not all agree on anything; 2. Some doctors will say anything for money (Dr. Oz is a good example); 3. a lot of the so called Doctors on Youtube spouting nonsense about many different subjects are not really doctors (Dr. Phil is a good example of that).
 

marhawkman

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Kesavaross - you are in the UK. Could you please post some sources for your claim that the death rate hardly increased at all in your country?

I am in the US, and here it was deadly. I've posted about this on this thread before, but perhaps you did not read it. In any case, take a look at the "Covid disease" thread and the details I posted there - link below. I disagree that covid/SARS is no more deadly than other corona viruses. It was an astonishing killer in 2020-2021 in the US, and from what I gathered from news sources in other countries as well.

https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...its-spread-per-se.66968/page-184#post-2168987
Well, the trick is in how you measure deaths. Many of the official figures include anyone who "may" have had Covid-19 as a contributing factor, and not a direct cause of death. And generally not carefully analyzed.

Note how he said "death rate"... not Covid-19. IE the number of people in the country that died in general, and not from any specific cause. How many of the deaths attributed to Covid-19 are actually people who would have died even if they hadn't contracted it?
 

kesavaross

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Well, the trick is in how you measure deaths. Many of the official figures include anyone who "may" have had Covid-19 as a contributing factor, and not a direct cause of death. And generally not carefully analyzed.

Note how he said "death rate"... not Covid-19. IE the number of people in the country that died in general, and not from any specific cause. How many of the deaths attributed to Covid-19 are actually people who would have died even if they hadn't contracted it?
I may be missing the point and without wishing to sound trite. How do measure deaths, simply by counting the number of dead people and comparing it to previous years before covid.

Find anything on the net that is contrary to what the government and media says is getting harder and harder. Censorship is well and truly here.
 

kesavaross

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I find this statement utterly contrary to my experience.
Try and find anything on the social media networks that is not fully in line with the agenda being pushed by the government and media.

I don't know how you can say my statement is contrary to your experience. If you are only getting one side of a story skilfully presented then surely.......

There are numerous alternative social media websites as well as innumerable whats app, telegraph groups etc. Some of the professionals who post videos, blogs, etc are amongst the most highly qualified in the world. There are literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of videos.

There have beens numerous calls for an open debate on tv and god knows how many open letters sent to the government and the media yet there hasn't been a single mention about them from any main stream outlet. I'd call that censorship.
 

kesavaross

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marhawkman

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Try and find anything on the social media networks that is not fully in line with the agenda being pushed by the government and media.

I don't know how you can say my statement is contrary to your experience. If you are only getting one side of a story skilfully presented,

There are numerous alternative social media websites as well as innumerable whats app, telegraph groups etc. Some of the professionals who post videos, blogs, etc are amongst the most highly qualified in the world. There are literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of videos.

There have beens numerous calls for an open debate on tv and god knows how many open letters sent to the government and the media yet there hasn't been a single mention about them from any main stream outlet. I'd call that censorship.
Yeah, early pandemic the US CDC had a page on their site about the expected symptoms which showed that the virus had over a 50% rate of asymptomatic infection and less than 10% serious illness. Good luck finding anything that has actual infection statistics now. I've tried.
 

kesavaross

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Yeah, early pandemic the US CDC had a page on their site about the expected symptoms which showed that the virus had over a 50% rate of asymptomatic infection and less than 10% serious illness. Good luck finding anything that has actual infection statistics now. I've tried.
I've all but given up. As soon as I think I'm getting somewhere along comes something to muddy the waters. Trying to get a straight answer from the CDC website, or the NHS, or ONS, etc, is becoming a joke unless I want information that they want me to have.

Go back a year and the information I wanted was relatively easy to find.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Well, the trick is in how you measure deaths. Many of the official figures include anyone who "may" have had Covid-19 as a contributing factor, and not a direct cause of death. And generally not carefully analyzed.

Note how he said "death rate"... not Covid-19. IE the number of people in the country that died in general, and not from any specific cause. How many of the deaths attributed to Covid-19 are actually people who would have died even if they hadn't contracted it?

Assuming you are not just being rhetorical in your question: for the US, good data exists publicly which answers this. Below is an excerpt from another discussion. Link to full comment with all sources.

2019: death rate 8.7 per 1000. Life expectancy: 78.8 years. US deaths all causes: 2,854,838, an increase of 0.55% over previous year.

2020: death rate 10.27 per 1000. Life expectancy: 77 years. This is a remarkable decrease in life expectancy. US deaths all causes: 3,383,729, an increase of 18.5% over previous year. 350000 est. persons died from Covid.

“The drop in life expectancy in 2020 was the largest one-year decline since World War II, when life expectancy declined 2.9 years between 1942 and 1943.” “The decline in life expectancy between 2019 and 2020 can primarily be attributed to deaths from the pandemic, as COVID-19 deaths contributed to nearly three-fourths or 74% of the decline.”

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): The Disease & Its Spread (Per Se) | Page 184 | The Forteana Forums
 

marhawkman

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Assuming you are not just being rhetorical in your question: for the US, good data exists publicly which answers this. Below is an excerpt from another discussion. Link to full comment with all sources.

2019: death rate 8.7 per 1000. Life expectancy: 78.8 years. US deaths all causes: 2,854,838, an increase of 0.55% over previous year.

2020: death rate 10.27 per 1000. Life expectancy: 77 years. This is a remarkable decrease in life expectancy. US deaths all causes: 3,383,729, an increase of 18.5% over previous year. 350000 est. persons died from Covid.

“The drop in life expectancy in 2020 was the largest one-year decline since World War II, when life expectancy declined 2.9 years between 1942 and 1943.” “The decline in life expectancy between 2019 and 2020 can primarily be attributed to deaths from the pandemic, as COVID-19 deaths contributed to nearly three-fourths or 74% of the decline.”

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): The Disease & Its Spread (Per Se) | Page 184 | The Forteana Forums
Well, one of your sources shows that number of deaths per year in the US was steadily increasing over the last decade: https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/deaths/table/ I wonder why the chart stops at 2019? Anyways it has total deaths as 2.4M in 2000 and 2.85M in 2019.

This one, which has a dramatic chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf
shows life expectancy was slowly increasing? Until 2020.

Now to find actual total mortality figures for 2020 or 2021.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm

Hmm ok this is interesting... total deaths in 2020 increased to 3.38M(total increase of ~530K)... But only 384.5k are blamed on Covid-19? Hmm..... then in 2021 numbers creep up to 3.46M(increase from previous year of 80k) deaths, 460.5k(up only 76k) blamed on Covid... Um... That's a rather drastic mortality rate increase in general, and even the US CDC isn't trying to blame it all on Covid.

Of course none of this analysis even touches on whether the figure blamed on Covid is even correct. See.. those figures for Covid deaths are: "§ Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19 as an underlying or contributing cause of death, with International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision code U07.1."
Including presumed contributing factors seems a bit much....
 

Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,611
Well, one of your sources shows that number of deaths per year in the US was steadily increasing over the last decade: https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/deaths/table/ I wonder why the chart stops at 2019? Anyways it has total deaths as 2.4M in 2000 and 2.85M in 2019.

This one, which has a dramatic chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf
shows life expectancy was slowly increasing? Until 2020.

Now to find actual total mortality figures for 2020 or 2021.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm

Hmm ok this is interesting... total deaths in 2020 increased to 3.38M(total increase of ~530K)... But only 384.5k are blamed on Covid-19? Hmm..... then in 2021 numbers creep up to 3.46M(increase from previous year of 80k) deaths, 460.5k(up only 76k) blamed on Covid... Um... That's a rather drastic mortality rate increase in general, and even the US CDC isn't trying to blame it all on Covid.

Of course none of this analysis even touches on whether the figure blamed on Covid is even correct. See.. those figures for Covid deaths are: "§ Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19 as an underlying or contributing cause of death, with International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision code U07.1."
Including presumed contributing factors seems a bit much....
Given the ongoing disputes about how to count "covid" deaths, the change in total deaths in any given population is a good measure of post-covid/pre-covid increase unless there was something else significant going on in that population over the same time period, which in the case of the US there wasn't.
 
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