Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

marhawkman

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Given the ongoing disputes about how to count "covid" deaths, the change in total deaths in any given population is a good measure of post-covid/pre-covid increase unless there was something else significant going on in that population over the same time period, which in the case of the US there wasn't.
Well, that's interesting, since... we know there were increased deaths NOT related to Covid. see: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db427.htm
 

Lb8535

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Well, that's interesting, since... we know there were increased deaths NOT related to Covid. see: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db427.htm
I think you're looking at this table.

What are the death rates for the 10 leading causes of death?​

In 2020, 9 of the 10 leading causes of death remained the same as in 2019. The top leading cause was heart disease, followed by cancer (Figure 4). COVID-19, newly added as a cause of death in 2020, became the 3rd leading cause of death. Of the remaining leading causes in 2020 (unintentional injuries, stroke, chronic lower respiratory diseases, Alzheimer disease, diabetes, influenza and pneumonia, and kidney disease), 5 causes changed ranks from 2019. Unintentional injuries, the 3rd leading cause in 2019, became the 4th leading cause in 2020. Chronic lower respiratory diseases, the 4th leading cause in 2019, became the 6th. Alzheimer disease, the 6th leading cause in 2019, became the 7th. Diabetes, the 7th leading cause in 2019, became the 8th. Kidney disease, the 8th leading cause in 2019, became the 10th leading cause in 2020. Stroke, and influenza and pneumonia, remained the 5th and 9th leading causes, respectively (1). Suicide dropped from the list of 10 leading causes in 2020. Causes of death are ranked according to number of deaths (1). The 10 leading causes accounted for 74.1% of all deaths in the United States in 2020.

From 2019 to 2020, age-adjusted death rates increased for 6 of 10 leading causes of death and decreased for 2. The rate increased 4.1% for heart disease (from 161.5 in 2019 to 168.2 in 2020), 16.8% for unintentional injuries (49.3 to 57.6), 4.9% for stroke (37.0 to 38.8), 8.7% for Alzheimer disease (29.8 to 32.4), 14.8% for diabetes (21.6 to 24.8), and 5.7% for influenza and pneumonia (12.3 to 13.0). Rates decreased 1.4% for cancer (146.2 to 144.1) and 4.7% for chronic lower respiratory diseases (38.2 to 36.4). The rate for kidney disease remained unchanged.

Data comparisons from 2019 to 2020 for COVID-19 are not applicable because COVID-19 was a new cause in 2020.

Figure 4. Age-adjusted death rates for the 10 leading causes of death in 2020: United States, 2019 and 2020

Figure 4 is a horizontal bar graph showing the age-adjusted death rates for the 10 leading causes of death in the United States 2020. It compares 2019 rates for the same causes. image icon
*COVID-19 became an official cause of death in 2020; rates for 2019 are not applicable.
1Statistically significant increase in age-adjusted death rate from 2019 to 2020 (p < 0.05).
2Statistically significant decrease in age-adjusted death rate from 2019 to 2020 (p < 0.05).
NOTES: A total of 3,383,729 resident deaths were registered in the United States in 2020. The 10 leading causes of death accounted for 74.1% of all deaths in the United States in 2020. Causes of death are ranked according to number of deaths. Rankings for 2019 data are not shown. Data table for Figure 4 includes the number of deaths for leading causes and the percentage of total deaths. Access data table for Figure 4pdf icon.
SOURCE: National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics System, Mortality.


That's why I said look at total increase. Many of the classes above can be related to the initial and pre-vaccine form of the virus infection. Cancer and heart disease deaths due to covid may very well lag because the effects of reduced pre-emptive medical care won't show up for a few years. Unintentional injuries is perplexing. Why on earth?
 

michael59

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Endlessly Amazed

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Well, one of your sources shows that number of deaths per year in the US was steadily increasing over the last decade: https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/deaths/table/ I wonder why the chart stops at 2019? Anyways it has total deaths as 2.4M in 2000 and 2.85M in 2019.

This one, which has a dramatic chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf
shows life expectancy was slowly increasing? Until 2020.

Now to find actual total mortality figures for 2020 or 2021.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm

Hmm ok this is interesting... total deaths in 2020 increased to 3.38M(total increase of ~530K)... But only 384.5k are blamed on Covid-19? Hmm..... then in 2021 numbers creep up to 3.46M(increase from previous year of 80k) deaths, 460.5k(up only 76k) blamed on Covid... Um... That's a rather drastic mortality rate increase in general, and even the US CDC isn't trying to blame it all on Covid.

Of course none of this analysis even touches on whether the figure blamed on Covid is even correct. See.. those figures for Covid deaths are: "§ Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19 as an underlying or contributing cause of death, with International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision code U07.1."
Including presumed contributing factors seems a bit much....

You are, apparently, never satisfied with the official data. and that's OK. I now understand.

I accept that, for the Covid epidemic in the US, some imprecision or inaccuracy of the data will exist. Even so, I find the CDC descriptions of different causes of death, including the one of covid contributing to death, useful. I am grateful to live in a country which collects and publishes such data.

There is much science behind the figures, and I am not an epidemiologist nor virologist, so my understanding of it is limited by my personal understanding. With that personal limitation, I do not draw the conclusions that the government, the big pharmaceutical companies, G-7 or 9 or 20, the military-industrial complex, the lizard overlords, or any other conspiracy is responsible for Covid or manipulating the response to it. The usual all-too-human combination of good intentions, bad intentions, incomplete communications, diverse goals, inadequate budgets, etc., are enough to explain the situation. For me, that is. Obviously you, Michael59, Kesavaross, and a few others draw different conclusions.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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I may be missing the point and without wishing to sound trite. How do measure deaths, simply by counting the number of dead people and comparing it to previous years before covid.

Find anything on the net that is contrary to what the government and media says is getting harder and harder. Censorship is well and truly here.
I'm with michael59, kesavaross, marhawkman, and all those who know that censorship is alive and well.
 

kesavaross

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I'm glad for you. So, for the rest of us, can you offer any evidence specific to covid and the covid vaccine?
The simple fact that not one dissenting voice has been heard on any main stream or social media despite the protests by top virologists, scientists, doctors, immunologists and thousand upon thousand of others.
 

uair01

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On Twitter someone has (for us well known, see UFO's) conspiracy thoughts and then someone replies with an Emily Dickinson poem. Neat!

Walter Kirn @walterkirn
Some days I’m so paranoid I’m paranoid about paranoia itself. What if “conspiracy theories” ( the “lab leak theory,” say) are really ways for the powers that be to introduce the truth about certain matters in an early, limited way that can gradually be amplified later?

MB @Ialwaysliked
Als antwoord op @walterkirn

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —

Dickinson
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Just the simple fact that our government has yet to release all the paperwork and information they have on the JFK assassination alone,
prompts distrust.
Almost 60 years later, and we are not allowed to know the truth.
We have a right to know.
You all can believe whatever you'd like, that's the way it is.
 

JahaRa

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The simple fact that not one dissenting voice has been heard on any main stream or social media despite the protests by top virologists, scientists, doctors, immunologists and thousand upon thousand of others.
If not one dissenting voice on main stream media then who are the dissenting virologists, scientists, doctors, immunologists and how do you know they are dissenting if what they say is being suppressed?
 

marhawkman

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If not one dissenting voice on main stream media then who are the dissenting virologists, scientists, doctors, immunologists and how do you know they are dissenting if what they say is being suppressed?
Well, one example is that "Blast your way to the truth" paper. which was self published on a private blog.
 

JahaRa

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Well, one example is that "Blast your way to the truth" paper. which was self published on a private blog.
And what are the credentials of the author? Did you verify the credentials? Many people on youtube claim to be doctors, but they have no experience in virology, immunology, biology, etc. You have to vet the credentials, not take their word for it. A Dr. Monroe is an example of that
 

kesavaross

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If not one dissenting voice on main stream media then who are the dissenting virologists, scientists, doctors, immunologists and how do you know they are dissenting if what they say is being suppressed?
Numerous alternative video and audio hosting websites appeared or became more well known after the start of the pandemic for that very reason - rumble, bit chute, odysee,

Numerous groups also appeared on what's app, telegram, etc. The only one I can remember on telegram is Medical Freedom Alliance. There are many others.

The sheer amount of proper scientific and medical knowledge on these websites is staggering. Virtually all of it saying something very very different to government advisers, big Pharma, and Fauci and ilk. And, most important of all, no money, vested interests and big Pharma connections are involved.

Added after.

It's not that information was being suppressed. It was being kept out of all medias. They wouldn't print a word but instead called anything that did not agree 100% with what was being said as 'fake news' which was a very clever tactic to keep the public obediently and submissively doing as they were being told.
 
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Ronnie Jersey

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The sheer amount of proper scientific and medical knowledge on these websites is staggering. Virtually all of it saying something very very different to government advisers, big Pharma, and Fauci and ilk. And, most important of all, no money, vested interests and big Pharma connections are involved.

Added after.

It's not that information was being suppressed. It was being kept out of all medias. They wouldn't print a word but instead called anything that did not agree 100% with what was being said as 'fake news' which was a very clever tactic to keep the public obediently and submissively doing as they were being told.
That's it in a nutshell - 'keep the public obediently and submissively doing as they were being told'.
And in this area, it seems the few cases existing seem to be of dwindling strength.
 

michael59

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Numerous alternative video and audio hosting websites appeared or became more well known after the start of the pandemic for that very reason - rumble, bit chute, odysee,

Numerous groups also appeared on what's app, telegram, etc. The only one I can remember on telegram is Medical Freedom Alliance. There are many others.

The sheer amount of proper scientific and medical knowledge on these websites is staggering. Virtually all of it saying something very very different to government advisers, big Pharma, and Fauci and ilk. And, most important of all, no money, vested interests and big Pharma connections are involved.

Added after.

It's not that information was being suppressed. It was being kept out of all medias. They wouldn't print a word but instead called anything that did not agree 100% with what was being said as 'fake news' which was a very clever tactic to keep the public obediently and submissively doing as they were being told.

I don't trust them. If you have to work that hard to get people to take a medicine, then how can you not expect people to question why. This is after all, a conspiracy thread, so I don't understand the hostility toward those of us that differ from the conformed opinion.

This really moved me and expresses exactly how I feel about things like mass vaccinations, lock downs and mandates:

 

Endlessly Amazed

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Just the simple fact that our government has yet to release all the paperwork and information they have on the JFK assassination alone,
prompts distrust.
Almost 60 years later, and we are not allowed to know the truth.
We have a right to know.
You all can believe whatever you'd like, that's the way it is.

What does the JFK assassination have to do with Covid? Do you think that the same people are or were conspiring in the two events, separated by 57 years?!?

Again, "So, for the rest of us, can you offer any evidence specific to covid and the covid vaccine?"
 

Ronnie Jersey

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What does the JFK assassination have to do with Covid? Do you think that the same people are or were conspiring in the two events, separated by 57 years?!?

Again, "So, for the rest of us, can you offer any evidence specific to covid and the covid vaccine?"
LOL - seems you are quite irritated when others do not go along with your beliefs,
that's life, it's quite amusing really.
Please take your arguments elsewhere, it's getting boring.
 
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Endlessly Amazed

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LOL - seems you are quite irritated when others do not go along with your beliefs,
that's life, it's quite amusing really.
Please take your arguments elsewhere, it's getting boring.
I am not irritated – much – but rather surprised and puzzled. If you have evidence about the Covid infection and the vaccines, please post it so we may all learn.

I have spent hours (and hours!) watching the videos and reading through the various websites linked here by people who believe/think/know a conspiracy exists. I suspect I am the only non-conspiracy theorist here who has done so - or perhaps the only one who is willing to admit to it.

If you have evidence for what you “know,” then please post it.

EDIT: I have done my homework on the conspiracy aspect: posts 2687, 2690, 2691, 2692, 2701, etc.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims | Page 90 | The Forteana Forums

If you or anyone else could address these comments directly and point out why my observations are wrong, this would support intelligent discussion.
 
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Ronnie Jersey

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And just today our neighborhood found out that 2 recent deaths of men, one in his 30s and one late 40s, were of heart related causes. But they both recently had booster shots, which of course is raising suspicion.
There are many here who refused the vaccine completely, never mind the boosters.
As I was walking away from the conversation, the last thing I heard was, "They can forget any monkeypox vaccine, that's not going to happen!"
LOL
 

JahaRa

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And just today our neighborhood found out that 2 recent deaths of men, one in his 30s and one late 40s, were of heart related causes. But they both recently had booster shots, which of course is raising suspicion.
There are many here who refused the vaccine completely, never mind the boosters.
As I was walking away from the conversation, the last thing I heard was, "They can forget any monkeypox vaccine, that's not going to happen!"
LOL
That seems illogical. That's like saying that all softballs are spherical and all oranges are spherical so all softballs are oranges. There has to be investigation. Did the two men mentioned have heart problems diagnosed or undiagnosed? If undiagnosed a good coroner can tell if they had pre-existing conditions that led to their death. Important informatioin was left out, implying there is a link with no evidence of a link.
 

Sardan2

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And just today our neighborhood found out that 2 recent deaths of men, one in his 30s and one late 40s, were of heart related causes. But they both recently had booster shots, which of course is raising suspicion.

What exactly is suspicious? How many who have had the vaccine haven’t had heart issues? How many had heart issues before the vaccine?

Correlation does not equal causation.
 

marhawkman

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That seems illogical. That's like saying that all softballs are spherical and all oranges are spherical so all softballs are oranges. There has to be investigation. Did the two men mentioned have heart problems diagnosed or undiagnosed? If undiagnosed a good coroner can tell if they had pre-existing conditions that led to their death. Important informatioin was left out, implying there is a link with no evidence of a link.
Oh yeah... remember this:
db427-fig4.png

Um yeah, I know, I know "but that's not causation!" Meh. It does give one reason to believe a lot of investigation needs done. I tried looking up a breakdown of cause of death by age on the CDC site but... nope. Most available data is from 2019 or older. Hmm what can I find elsewhere?
https://getsure.org/leading-causes-of-death-by-age/
This is the most current data available, as there is a two-year lag — e.g., the 2021 figures will not be published until March 2023.
Hmmm........
 

Lb8535

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Oh yeah... remember this:
db427-fig4.png

Um yeah, I know, I know "but that's not causation!" Meh. It does give one reason to believe a lot of investigation needs done. I tried looking up a breakdown of cause of death by age on the CDC site but... nope. Most available data is from 2019 or older. Hmm what can I find elsewhere?
https://getsure.org/leading-causes-of-death-by-age/

Hmmm........
Everything that people didn't go to their doctors for in 2020 is going to have an increased death rate.
 

Beresford

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Odd that isn't it. So it now takes almost 2 years to compile data that prior to covid took around 6 to 8 weeks.
The graph you refer to was published in December 2021, so took around 11 months to be published. That isn't unreasonable. The figures would of course have been compiled before then but it takes time for figures to be checked, confirmed and interpreted. The fact that COVID was the third biggest cause death in 2020 shows how severe its impact was that year.
 

stu neville

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Before we go ahy further, a general point about this thread.

As with any such contentious subject matter, especially one as emotionally charged as this any discussion that can imply there may be ulterior motives involved will invariably spark rigorous debate, as it should.

We keep receiving reports about various posts, usually citing harassment or bullying tones regarding the opinions or posts of individuals, as if they are being singled out. As a result I've gone back and looked at the posts in question in the wider context of the thread, and in my judgement this is not the case. There have been a number of posts that state as fact things that are actually conjecture at best and in some cases extreme fringe theories. These things will inevitably be challenged, and it is both unrealistic and unreasonable to expect every statement you make to be just absolutely and uncritically accepted, especially when they run contrary to the experience and opinion of many others. Within usual parameters you can say what you wish, but you must equally be prepared to debate and defend your viewpoint.

If the discussion becomes a personal attack, or ad hominem, then of course we will take action, but straight examination of statements presented as factual do not constitute bullying or harassment, and future reports predicated on this basis will be disregarded by the moderation team.

Back to topic.
 

Coal

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Hmm...


Covid Vaccines Are Killing One in Every 800 Over-60s and Should Be Withdrawn Immediately, Says Leading Vaccine Scientist​


https://dailysceptic.org/2022/08/04...n-immediately-says-leading-vaccine-scientist/

. Theo Schetters, a vaccinologist based in the Netherlands who has played a leading role in the development of a number of vaccines, has analysed the official data from the Dutch Government and found a very close correlation between when fourth vaccine doses were administered in the country and the number of excess deaths, as shown in the chart below. Importantly, in the Netherlands the booster rollout in different regions was staggered over a number of weeks allowing an analysis by region, which confirms the effect.


image-1.png


Dr. Schetters, who is a recipient of the Medal of Honour of the Faculty of Pharmacy at the University of Montpellier in France, told Dr. Robert Malone, an inventor of mRNA vaccine technology, that medical doctors are currently seeing “all sorts of symptoms that they do not know what it is” and that “in the Netherlands now it’s very clear that there is a good correlation between the number of vaccinations that are given to people and the number of people that die within a week after that”. It is essential to look at all-cause mortality, he said, as the vaccine “potentially affects all organs”.
 

Sprite666

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Surely as Forteans we should ask questions from every angle. And yet anyone who asks questions in social, or any other type of media such as "when someone catches covid, and thanks their stars that they're jabbed or it could be so much worse, have they ever wondered if actually, it would have been a lot better without the jab"

Or " how can a long term assessment be done on a new vaccine? If this cannot be done due to the emergency situation, how can a claim of safe and effective be made?"

And my personal favorite "Government ordered us to remain indoors. But they felt safe enough to party. The most important people in the country arguably........ what did they know that we don't that made them feel so safe?"

Any of these valid questions with no answers that I can find, should be asked. But if we ask we are banned from social media rather than being provided with solid evidence. And labelled as nut jobs in some cases (not here I might add)
 
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