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Corpse Mishandling

This is a strange local one. A guy was shot outside of his workplace and robbed. A person witnessed it and does nothing, just shaking his head and walking away. A minute later, three different people walk by the body and some continue to rob the corpse further.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/vi...tlanta-restaurant/JZLLCGRDWZHFPIIDY6XKRVDUZM/
ATLANTA — Atlanta police have released new surveillance video in the deadly shooting of a security guard outside an Atlanta restaurant.

Anthony Frazier, 51, was shot and killed Monday around 7 p.m. outside the American Wings and Seafood restaurant on Cleveland Avenue. Surveillance video shows the suspect walking up to Frazier from behind dressed in a black long sleeve t-shirt with graphics on it, a black ballcap with a Nike logo, and carrying a camouflage backpack. The video appears to show a gun in his right hand.

Police said the suspect shot Frazier from behind as the guard got out of his SUV. After the shooting, the video shows the man going through the guard’s pockets and walking away. In the video, investigators believe a man sitting on the curb saw and heard what happened. He can be seen shaking his head and walking past Frazier’s body.

The video shows several other people walking past Frazier’s body. Police said they are asking for the public’s help to identify the suspect and others seen in the video for questioning.

This is the footage... it is raw even with the body blurred... they also cut out the actual shooting so be warned. What you will see are
 

Body found in barrel in Lake Mead may date back to 1980s, more likely to appear as water recedes, Las Vegas police say


The body found in a barrel at Lake Mead on Sunday may have been underwater for as long as four decades and more bodies are likely to appear as the lake recedes due to severe drought, Las Vegas Metro police homicide Lt. Ray Spencer [said].

Police suspect the person was killed in the 1980s based on personal items in the barrel, Spencer said. He would not elaborate on the person’s cause of death or the items found, citing the ongoing investigation.

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A photo shared with the I-Team showed what looked like skeletal remains in the barrel.

The area where the barrel was discovered is near the Hemenway Harbor boat ramp. Crews have had to extend the ramp hundreds of feet over the past decades to get it closer to the water.

In the 1980s, what is now beach would have been several dozen feet underwater.

https://www.8newsnow.com/i-team/i-t...appear-as-water-recedes-las-vegas-police-say/

maximus otter
 
This is like the family feuds of old...

Woman charged with felony after spitting on corpse in casket at funeral home, records show​


corpsemishanding.jpg


TYLER, Texas (KLTV/Gray News) – A Texas woman was charged with a felony after spitting on a corpse at a funeral home during a viewing, arrest records show.

According to an arrest affidavit, Laurie Lynn Hinds, 51, walked into a funeral home in Tyler, Texas, on Nov. 29, walked straight up to the casket, and spit on the corpse.
https://www.wlbt.com/2022/06/14/wom...ting-corpse-casket-funeral-home-records-show/
 

Scientists May Have Found Where the Bodies of Waterloo Went


On June 18, 1815, the Duke of Wellington defeated Napoleon’s army at Waterloo, marking the end of the First French Empire. For eight grueling hours, the armies exchanged cannon shots, gunfire and sabre strikes, leaving 50,000 soldiers captured, wounded or dead. The battle was one of the deadliest of the century, but to the bewilderment of archaeologists, only one full skeleton has been found to this day.

In a study published in the Journal of Conflict Archaeology, an expert argues that the bodies haven’t been found because their bodies were used to make fertilizer.

iu


Tony Pollard, author of the study and director of the Centre for Battlefield Archaeology at the University of Glasgow, used written accounts and artwork from early visitors to conclude that deceased soldiers were buried in several mass graves, each containing thousands of corpses.

“The bodies of the dead were clearly disposed of at numerous locations across the battlefield, so it is somewhat surprising that there is no reliable record of a mass grave ever being encountered,” says Pollard in a press release.

Pollard then collated newspaper clippings from the era to demonstrate that people commonly looted human bones and sold them to make fertilizer. For example, one clipping from The London Observer in 1822 estimates that “more than a million bushels of ‘human and inhuman bones’ were imported from the continent of Europe into the port of Hull.”

“European battlefields may have provided a convenient source of bone that could be ground down into bone-meal, an effective form of fertilizer,” Pollard says in a press release. He adds that locals who watched or helped with the burials might have guided grave diggers to the grave sites.

“Many came to steal the belongings of the dead, some even stole teeth to make into dentures, while others came to simply observe what had happened,” Pollard says in a press release. “It’s likely that an agent of a purveyor of bones would arrive at the battlefield with high expectations of securing their prize.”

“On the basis of these accounts, backed up by the well attested importance of bone meal in the practice of agriculture, the emptying of mass graves at Waterloo in order to obtain bones seems feasible, and the likely conclusion,” Pollard concludes in a press release.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/th...-have-found-where-the-bodies-of-waterloo-went

From paywalled Telegraph version:

The neighbourhood of Leipsic, Austerlitz, Waterloo, and of all the places where, during the late bloody war, the principal battles were fought, have been swept alike of the bones of the hero and of the horse which he rode.”

The account suggested most of the bones were sent to Doncaster, “...and sold to farmers to manure their lands”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-finally-solve-mystery-missing-waterloo-dead/

maximus otter
 
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From this excellent book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show...g?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=2Zt5W82zAV&rank=1

Philip did not rely solely on the living to mobilize supernatural assistance for his cause: he also sought the intercession of the saints. He displayed a ‘holy greed’ (in Sigüenza’s words) for relics, beginning in 1550 when he travelled through Cologne on his Grand Tour and came upon ‘a huge trove of heads and bones’ of presumed saints. Philip and his entourage bought many of them and took them back to Spain. Seven years later, when his troops captured the town of St Quentin from the French, the king took under his personal protection ‘many relics’ including ‘the body of St Quentin and the head of St Andrew’ and placed them ‘with great reverence’ upon ‘the altar of his chapel’ in the camp, before sending them back to Spain.14 In 1567, at his request, the pope granted Philip permission to collect relics wherever he wished, and over the next thirty years he assembled at the Escorial, among thousands of religious items, 12 entire bodies, 144 heads and 306 limbs of various saints – a total of 7,422 relics, many of them with a label attached written in the king’s own hand (see plate 14).15
 
Another case of an epic fail in funeral home operations, this time in Indiana ...
31 bodies, some decomposing, found at Indiana funeral home

Police are investigating after more than 30 bodies, some decomposing, were found inside a southern Indiana funeral home.

Police in the Louisville suburb of Jeffersonville responded to Lankford Funeral Home and Family Center on Friday evening and found 31 bodies, including some some “in the advanced stages of decomposition,” Maj. Isaac Parker said.

He said the county coroner’s office had reported a strong odor emanating from the building. Inside, officers wearing hazmat gear found bodies “in different places around the building.” Some of the bodies had been at the funeral home since March, Parker said. Police also found the cremated remains of 16 people.

“It was a very unpleasant scene,” Parker said. ...

The owner of the funeral home has been speaking with police since Friday, Parker said, and an investigation is ongoing. ...
FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/indiana-jeffersonville-0bb0e2474ef1ce4f889f98062e26609e
 
A Colorado funeral home operator and her mother conspired for years to fake donor certifications and sell cadavers and body parts to research institutions rather than cremating them (as they told families they'd done).
Colorado funeral home owner accused of selling body parts pleads guilty

A Colorado funeral home operator accused of illegally selling body parts and giving clients fake ashes has pleaded guilty to mail fraud in federal court.

... Megan Hess faces a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison after entering the plea Tuesday in Grand Junction. Other charges against Hess will be dropped under a plea agreement ...

Hess, 45, and her mother, Shirley Koch, operated the Sunset Mesa Funeral Home in Montrose. They were arrested in 2020 and charged with six counts of mail fraud and three counts of illegal transportation of hazardous materials.

A grand jury indictment said that from 2010 through 2018, Hess and Koch offered to cremate bodies and provide the remains to families at a cost of $1,000 or more, but many of the cremations never occurred.

Hess had created a nonprofit organization in 2009 called Sunset Mesa Funeral Foundation as a body-broker service doing business as Donor Services ...

On dozens of occasions, Hess and Koch transferred bodies or body parts to third parties for research without families’ knowledge, according to the U.S. Justice Department. The transfers were done through Sunset Mesa Funeral Foundation and Donor Services, authorities said. ...

Hess and Koch also shipped bodies and body parts that tested positive for, or belonged to people who died from, infectious diseases including Hepatitis B and C, and HIV, despite certifying to buyers that the remains were disease-free ...
FULL STORY: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ed-selling-body-parts-pleads-guilty-rcna36830
 

Scientists May Have Found Where the Bodies of Waterloo Went


On June 18, 1815, the Duke of Wellington defeated Napoleon’s army at Waterloo, marking the end of the First French Empire. For eight grueling hours, the armies exchanged cannon shots, gunfire and sabre strikes, leaving 50,000 soldiers captured, wounded or dead. The battle was one of the deadliest of the century, but to the bewilderment of archaeologists, only one full skeleton has been found to this day.

In a study published in the Journal of Conflict Archaeology, an expert argues that the bodies haven’t been found because their bodies were used to make fertilizer.

iu


Tony Pollard, author of the study and director of the Centre for Battlefield Archaeology at the University of Glasgow, used written accounts and artwork from early visitors to conclude that deceased soldiers were buried in several mass graves, each containing thousands of corpses.

“The bodies of the dead were clearly disposed of at numerous locations across the battlefield, so it is somewhat surprising that there is no reliable record of a mass grave ever being encountered,” says Pollard in a press release.

Pollard then collated newspaper clippings from the era to demonstrate that people commonly looted human bones and sold them to make fertilizer. For example, one clipping from The London Observer in 1822 estimates that “more than a million bushels of ‘human and inhuman bones’ were imported from the continent of Europe into the port of Hull.”

“European battlefields may have provided a convenient source of bone that could be ground down into bone-meal, an effective form of fertilizer,” Pollard says in a press release. He adds that locals who watched or helped with the burials might have guided grave diggers to the grave sites.

“Many came to steal the belongings of the dead, some even stole teeth to make into dentures, while others came to simply observe what had happened,” Pollard says in a press release. “It’s likely that an agent of a purveyor of bones would arrive at the battlefield with high expectations of securing their prize.”

“On the basis of these accounts, backed up by the well attested importance of bone meal in the practice of agriculture, the emptying of mass graves at Waterloo in order to obtain bones seems feasible, and the likely conclusion,” Pollard concludes in a press release.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/th...-have-found-where-the-bodies-of-waterloo-went

From paywalled Telegraph version:

The neighbourhood of Leipsic, Austerlitz, Waterloo, and of all the places where, during the late bloody war, the principal battles were fought, have been swept alike of the bones of the hero and of the horse which he rode.”

The account suggested most of the bones were sent to Doncaster, “...and sold to farmers to manure their lands”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-finally-solve-mystery-missing-waterloo-dead/

maximus otter

More remains rediscovered.

Skeletons of soldiers who died at the Battle of Waterloo in Belgium in 1815 have been unearthed by archaeologists.

Experts say the discoveries are "incredibly rare" on a Napoleonic battlefield and further excavation is under way to learn more. Teams found remains of humans and horses in the dig, which resumed this year for the first time since 2019.

"We won't get any closer to the harsh reality of Waterloo than this," said one of the project's directors.
Prof Tony Pollard, director of the Centre for Battlefield Archaeology at the University of Glasgow and an archaeological director at the Waterloo Uncovered charity, has been closely involved in the excavations.

"I've been a battlefield archaeologist for 20 years and have never seen anything like it," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62148618
 
Human remains were inadvisably (and illegally ... ) shipped via FedEx to a distant lab for tests to help ascertain whether and how the deceased was (presumably) murdered. That was 3 years ago. The shipment is still MIA, and both the deceased's family and law enforcement still have no closure on the matter.
FedEx box containing suspected murder victim's body has been missing for 3 years

The remains of a suspected murder victim are still missing after they were sent in a FedEx box three years earlier.

Jeffrey Merriweather, 32, died in Atlanta, Georgia, in 2019, and his remains were sent to the Fulton County Medical Examiner, then to a facility in St. Louis for more testing.

Officials sent the body for testing to understand how the body decomposed so quickly after his suspected murder, but the shipment never arrived. The shipment also may have broken federal law, according to officials.

The National Funeral Directors Association says that only the U.S. Postal Service can legally ship human remains and it must follow specific protocols.

A FedEx spokesperson said that “shipments of this nature are prohibited within the FedEx network." ...
FULL STORY: https://komonews.com/news/nation-wo...der-victims-body-has-been-missing-for-3-years
 
A family go to a storage facility in South Auckland, New Zealand and buy some items. They open up two suitcases that are part of the lot and..

Human remains found in two suitcases bought at auction in New Zealand contained the bodies of two young children, detectives have said.
The bodies had probably been in storage for several years and the victims were thought to have been aged between five and 10 when they died, they said.
Items found with the cases are being studied in an attempt to identify them.

Horrifying. More at the link.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62588994
 
This Pennsylvania man apparently obtains human remains / body parts and resells them on Facebook as curiosities. Some of his past acquisitions have been technically legal. His most recent acquisitions from Arkansas have brought down state and federal investigations upon his head.
Police: Pennsylvania man tried to buy stolen human remains

A Pennsylvania man was charged with abuse of a corpse, receiving stolen property and other charges after police say he allegedly tried to buy stolen human remains from an Arkansas woman for possible resale on Facebook.

A spokeswoman for the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences in Little Rock confirmed that the remains were to be donated to UAMS’s facility. UAMS spokeswoman Leslie Taylor said they were instead stolen from Arkansas Central Mortuary Services in Little Rock by a female mortuary employee and sold, adding that there is an open federal investigation. ...

East Pennsboro Township Police in Pennsylvania announced the arrest of and charges against 40-year-old Jeremy Lee Pauley ... Pauley had been arrested on July 22 and had an initial court appearance Thursday. ...

On a Facebook page under his name, Pauley has posted pictures of bags and stacks of femurs, one captioned, “Picked up more medical bones to sort through.” The Facebook page he uses to market his body parts is called “The Grand Wunderkammer,” “Vendors of the odd and unusual, museum exhibits, guest lectures, live entertainment, and so much more! Strange, curious, and unique in every way possible!” ...

Pauley, who described himself as a collector of what he called “oddities,” including human body parts, said the remains were acquired legally when first contacted by police ... Police initially found what they described as older human remains including full skeletons that they determined were legally obtained.

However, after a second tip about newer remains in Pauley’s home, investigators returned to the house to find more recent purchases. Police found three five-gallon buckets containing assorted body parts— including of children— and federal and state law enforcement agents intercepted packages addressed to Pauley from the Arkansas woman that contained body parts. ...

Pauley told investigators that he intended to resell the body parts, according to the affidavit. Investigators allege that Pauley arranged to pay the Arkansas woman $4,000 for the body parts through Facebook Messenger. ...
FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/science-...niversity-of-9fc76b513a4eb1b2ba9c9c94635d9ab6

BONUS: Interesting photo of the arrested man ...

Pauley-2208.jpeg
 
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I've often wondered who is qualified to certify a death in the UK.

"...only a medical practitioner who has attended the deceased for their last illness, and can state the cause of death to the best of their knowledge and belief, will be allowed to complete Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD). In addition, the attending medical practitioner must meet the requirements set out in paragraph 1(b); if not, paragraph 1(c) will apply.

b. In addition to 1(a), an attending medical practitioner* with GMC registration will be able to complete the MCCD process if they saw the deceased during their final illness up to 28 days before death, or viewed the body in person after death; otherwise 1(c) will apply.

  • i. The 28 day provision (the ‘last seen alive’ requirement), initially introduced in response to the coronavirus pandemic, has now been made permanent through a change to regulations and included in the MCCD guidance**. ‘Seen’ in this context includes consultation using video technology. However, it does not include consultation by telephone/audio only.
  • ii. Seeing the deceased after death (i.e. viewing the body) will need to be in person and includes verifying the death.
*An “attending medical practitioner” in this document means a medical practitioner who meets the attendance requirement in paragraph 1 (a)

**Prior to the Coronavirus Act 2020, it was a requirement that the medical practitioner had attended the deceased within 14 days.

c. Requirements are different if the attending medical practitioner did not see the deceased in the 28 days before death, or the deceased was not seen after death by the attending medical practitioner. While the MCCD can still be completed by the attending medical practitioner if they meet the requirements in 1(a), the registrar is obliged to refer the death to the coroner before registration. Preferably the attending medical practitioner should notify the coroner beforehand, to avoid distress to the bereaved. The coroner will then consider if the case requires further investigation, and if not, will complete Form 100A and send this to the registrar to allow registration."

https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...oners-after-the-coronavirus-act-2020-expires/

maximus otter
 
Thanks, very informative. But I've been watching a fair few documentaries about the ambulance service recently, and paramedics seem to be able to decide when someone's dead. Just wondering who can determine when someone's dead.
 
Thanks, very informative. But I've been watching a fair few documentaries about the ambulance service recently, and paramedics seem to be able to decide when someone's dead. Just wondering who can determine when someone's dead.

I can't speak to the UK situation, but ...

In the USA, "pronouncing" someone's death is not the same thing as "certifying" the death. "Pronouncing" only covers the fact of death and the official time of death. "Certifying" the death goes further to include statements about the manner and cause of death.

Death certificates have a medical portion that includes the pronouncement details and further sections that have to be filled out by an authorized certifier. If the manner of death requires it, further death certificate sections have to be filled out when a medical examiner gets involved.

Depending on state laws and regulations, an authorized professional other than a physician (and other than the deceased's attending physician, if any ... ) may be authorized to pronounce death. First-responding paramedics are authorized to pronounce death in some states. In other states they must consult a physician (e.g., by phone) to effectuate a pronouncement. In yet other states they can't officially pronounce death, even if they've discontinued care when the patient is obviously gone.
 
This would fit several threads:

Gell-Mann and Hartle acknowledged their intellectual debt to Everett [the inventor of the many worlds model of quantum physics] and saw their ideas as an extension of his work.
But Everett didn’t live to see Gell-Mann’s work, or Deutsch’s. On July 19, 1982, Everett died of a heart attack at the age of fifty-one. In accordance with his wishes, his family had him cremated, and left his ashes out with the trash.
 
This New Jersey funeral home screwed up just about everything that could be screwed up in a woman's 2020 funeral. They'll have to explain themselves in court now that the bereaved daughter (a lawyer) has filed a lawsuit.
Funeral home buried woman in wrong cemetery, someone else’s clothes, suit says

A New Jersey woman was buried in the wrong cemetery and in someone else’s clothes in late 2020 by a funeral service that bungled their response to the error, a lawsuit filed in Monmouth County alleges.

Janet Kay, of Lakewood, died in her sleep on Oct. 3, 2020. She was 82.

The mishandling of her services over the next few days by Bloomfield-Cooper Jewish Chapels caused her husband Leroy Kay emotional distress, suffering and anguish, and violated the couple’s Jewish faith, the lawsuit says. ...

Their daughter, prominent Trenton attorney Robin Kay Lord, filed the suit for her father ...

Leroy Kay hired Bloomfield-Cooper’s Manalapan location to handle his wife’s services. ...

Bloomfield-Cooper took possession of Kay’s body the day she died and her family members provided specific clothing and jewelry that she requested for her burial. The family made it “abundantly clear” to Bloomfield-Cooper representatives that they feared a mix-up in the clothing and jewelry.

The services called for Kay to be interred in Mount Sinai Cemetery in Marlboro’s Morganville neighborhood the next day, Oct. 4, 2020.

Instead, her remains were transported to a funeral service in northern New Jersey and buried there, in the wrong clothes, and with another woman’s jewelry and wedding ring on her body, according to the lawsuit ...

Kay’s family learned of the mistake two days later when they went to the Morganville cemetery for a service, and a Bloomfield-Cooper representative asked Leroy Kay questions that indicated they lost Janet’s body, the suit says.

The response got worse, the suit says.

A Bloomfield-Cooper representative made a FaceTime call to Leroy Kay with family members looking on in which he displayed a woman who was not Janet Kay, but wearing her clothing and jewelry, according to the suit. Leroy Kay could not look, and the image caused aghast onlookers to scream, the suit says.

The family held their service without Janet’s body. ...

During a celebration meal after the service, a Bloomfield-Cooper representative arrived to have Leroy sign exhumation papers and explained that Janet’s body was improperly tagged during Tahara, the Jewish washing ritual, according to the suit.

On Oct. 7, 2020, Bloomfield-Cooper exhumed Janet’s body from the erroneous cemetery and the next day, Robin Kay Lord went to their Manalapan office to confirm the identity of her mother. The family buried Janet Kay during a smaller ceremony later that day. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.nj.com/monmouth/2022/09...emetery-someone-elses-clothes-suits-says.html
 
Thanks, very informative. But I've been watching a fair few documentaries about the ambulance service recently, and paramedics seem to be able to decide when someone's dead. Just wondering who can determine when someone's dead.
When I was a driver on the railways I was driving a train that was involved in a suicide on the main line between the last stop before Brighton (Preston Park) and Brighton (in the UK). He was standing in the middle of the track with his arms outstretched and a big smile on his face. It later turned out to be an 18 year old college student. I did the usual stuff, contacted the signalman, identified myself, train reporting number, location, current off and lines blocked and all local signals (controlled and semi automatic) to red and got a confirmation that had been done.

The signalman requested I ascertain the 'condition' of the 'casualty'. So I did. When I then contacted the signalman and said the kiddie was dead I was told that only the police doctor, as the police had been called, can pronounce him dead and until that time, the person is to be either a victim or casualty. My view was bollocks and I described the scene in detail and added he is definitely dead. The signalman repeated I was not qualified to say that.

Edit: Minor details added. Edit again: I am conscious that the mods, who do an incredibly good job btw, can see my editing before and, obviously, after the editing was done.
 
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When I was a driver on the railways I was driving a train that was involved in a suicide on the main line between the last stop before Brighton (Preston Park) and Brighton (in the UK). He was standing in the middle of the track with his arms outstretched and a big smile on his face. It later turned out to be an 18 year old college student. I did the usual stuff, contacted the signalman, identified myself, train reporting number, location, current off and lines blocked and all local signals (controlled and semi automatic) to red and got a confirmation that had been done.

The signalman requested I ascertain the 'condition' of the 'casualty'. So I did. When I then contacted the signalman and said the kiddie was dead I was told that only the police doctor, as the police had been called, can pronounce him dead and until that time, the person is to be either a victim or casualty. My view was bollocks and I described the scene in detail and added he is definitely dead. The signalman repeated I was not qualified to say that.

Edit: Minor details added. Edit again: I am conscious that the mods, who do an incredibly good job btw, can see my editing before and, obviously, after the editing was done.
I suppose being a pedantic arse is quite a desirable quality in a signalman.
 
I suppose being a pedantic arse is quite a desirable quality in a signalman.
It is essential. Everything the signalman does and says is monitored and recorded and their knowledge of the rules and regulations is extensive.

I could have been disciplined for saying the person was dead but there again all I'd have to say was I was traumatised and my boss (the Train Crew Supervisor) knew it. I did have to go and see him about it. All he said was if there's a next time, don't, and why are all train drivers such argumentative bastards, now fuck off. Or words very much to that effect including the swearing which was normal and accepted as part of railway life.
 
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Signalman was right. I read of a case not all that long ago where some-one had put their head on the tracks outside a Station. Although the head and body were separated by quite a distance, the Station had to close and wait 3 hours for the Coroner's Office to turn up and declare the victim was dead.
 
I heard directly from the driver concerned of an incident where a person standing in the track was hit by a 12 carriage train doing 90mph. What happens in those situations, and sorry to be graphic, is the upper or top part of the body explodes into pieces while the bottom three quarters goes under the train and then gets bounced up and down between the trackbed and all the components, wheel axles, etc of the underside of the train. It acts like a high speed shredding machine. Usually, and I've heard this from track workers during engineering works whilst driving locos pulling rails on wagons, etc, when there's loads of down time, there can be, but not always, virtually no discernible body parts, just small bits spread over anything up to half a mile.

(With the suicide I posted about, it was at a relatively low speed at 34mph.)

Then, and sorry to be graphic again, after the usually long wait for a qualified person to declare the 'casualty' dead, and then another long wait for what body parts remain discernible to be removed, birds like magpies and crows have been at the edible bits. Gruesome I know, but that is nature for you.

That driver of the 90mph train had the same. He was told he wasn't qualified to say the mess spread over a long distance was 'dead'. Then at the inquest, the same driver was amazed to find out that a coroners report was read out. What did they do, go along the track with a litter picker and put the bits into a carrier bag? How does that then get investigated and laid out on a mortuary table to ascertain the cause of death which is stating the bleeding obvious? Sometimes rules are just plain sick and stupid and then the relatives have to listen to this uncaring crap. It's bad enough for them as it is without all the beaurocrasy.


/SPOILER]
 
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It is essential. Everything the signalman does and says is monitored and recorded and their knowledge of the rules and regulations is extensive.

I could have been disciplined for saying the person was dead but there again all I'd have to say was I was traumatised and my boss (the Train Crew Supervisor) knew it. I did have to go and see him about it. All he said was if there's a next time, don't, and why are all train drivers such argumentative bastards, now fuck off. Or words very much to that effect including the swearing which was normal and accepted as part of railway life.
They should have given you trauma counselling after that.
 
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