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Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

That seems very unlikely to me.

If they were putting the car in it means that the front was open.

And having worked in garages for years I can assure you that you will not die immediately from breathing in a bit of exhaust fume.
It isn't a wise thing to do, but it isn't instantly fatal.
 
I'm also thinking that stress and frustration when it wasn't straightforwards (?backwards) mean that they would be breathing harder :(
 
Does anyone have a picture of the "bag"?
 
Frideswide said:
Does anyone have a picture of the "bag"?
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There is indeed a product on sale which matches the description - Permabag

Perhaps it's something like that? If so, it looks a tight fit. You don't drive into it though, you drive onto it and wrap it over the top.

I'm wondering if, should that be the sort of thing they used, they found the space available too small to walk round the sides of the car and had resorted to half-assembling the bag instead. Maybe hooking the top of the bag to the roof of the garage, and reversing into it?

That would probably be quite difficult to do and might take several attempts. They could have been there all afternoon, trying different ways, until the fumes built up.

There's a lesson for us all here: know when you're beaten and give up.
 
INT21 said:
That seems very unlikely to me. If they were putting the car in it means that the front was open.
And having worked in garages for years I can assure you that you will not die immediately from breathing in a bit of exhaust fume.
It isn't a wise thing to do, but it isn't instantly fatal.
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Umm... what if they're really bad at parking? You know, they keep going in and out, and can't line it up properly, and the bag keeps filling up with exhaust. Never underestimate human incompetence; it is easily as dangerous as assuming human competence.
 
The couple were well respected members of the club I am in. They were stashing their collection away for winter. The "bag" referred to is a long established method of keeping high end cars from deterioration. Usually referred to as a cocoon or similar they are kept inflated or have a lightweight frame and dehumidified. Cost a fortune. The gentleman from what I have been told suffered a heart attack probably induced by the onset of CO2 poisoning. His wife found him and emergency services asked her to drag him out of the garage. She did but had collapsed also with a heart attack by the time the ambulance arrived. She died some hours later. Dreadful tragedy - I've been incredibly careful messing with cars in garages since learning of this.
 
How dreadful PeteS. It just goes to show that very weird and often fatal accidents can occur and how things can escalate.
 
PeteS said:
The couple were well respected members of the club I am in. They were stashing their collection away for winter. The "bag" referred to is a long established method of keeping high end cars from deterioration. Usually referred to as a cocoon or similar they are kept inflated or have a lightweight frame and dehumidified. Cost a fortune. The gentleman from what I have been told suffered a heart attack probably induced by the onset of CO2 poisoning. His wife found him and emergency services asked her to drag him out of the garage. She did but had collapsed also with a heart attack by the time the ambulance arrived. She died some hours later. Dreadful tragedy - I've been incredibly careful messing with cars in garages since learning of this.
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That's a great explanation, thank you. An awful business. A little close to home for you.

Makes me wonder if this is why, when you go to get your car serviced or whatever, the work area is always open to the elements? Apart from making it easier to get vehicles in and out. Natural ventilation.

We've seen lots of accounts on here of people dying quickly from suffocation caused by fumes in confined places. A few years back a couple died that way on a canal boat. It can even happen in tents; someone took a portable barbecue inside one to keep it dry overnight, thinking it was extinguished when it was still smouldering, and died in their sleep.
 
AlchoPwn said:
Umm... what if they're really bad at parking? You know, they keep going in and out, and can't line it up properly, and the bag keeps filling up with exhaust. Never underestimate human incompetence; it is easily as dangerous as assuming human competence.
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It is indeed very sad and unfortunate,
But I still have problems understanding that, if they were lining the car up, one would assume the front was still open. And thus there would be no build-up of gas.
This would happen if the bag was closed and the engine was running.

Escargot,
The doors are open in those places because the owners do not want to pay the cost of heating them. They would rather the mechanics worked in the cold.
I would never work in such a place.
The normal procedure is to get your vevicle in the garage and shut the door. Only open it if the engine is running. Or use a pipe to direct the gas out.
 
INT21 said:
It is indeed very sad and unfortunate, But I still have problems understanding that, if they were lining the car up, one would assume the front was still open. And thus there would be no build-up of gas. This would happen if the bag was closed and the engine was running.
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Now assume that the person is standing in the bag (holding it open for the car) in a poorly ventilated garage with the exhaust basically inflating the bag like a hot air balloon, except with carbon monoxide. The person holding the bag open passes out, and the other person rushes in to help them and passes out. If you've ever been affected by carbon monoxide, you know you don't get much of a window to act, and clearly the right answer would have been to open the garage door, but people often make the wrong diagnosis in a situation.
 
INT21 said:
The doors are open in those places because the owners do not want to pay the cost of heating them. They would rather the mechanics worked in the cold.
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That doesn't make sense.
 
AlchoPwn said:
Now assume that the person is standing in the bag (holding it open for the car) in a poorly ventilated garage with the exhaust basically inflating the bag like a hot air balloon, except with carbon monoxide. The person holding the bag open passes out, and the other person rushes in to help them and passes out. If you've ever been affected by carbon monoxide, you know you don't get much of a window to act, and clearly the right answer would have been to open the garage door, but people often make the wrong diagnosis in a situation.
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No offence AP but it didn't happen like that at all, but since this is a very very sensitive subject to many I won't go on about it.
 
escargot said:
That doesn't make sense.
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It certainly does.

The cost of heating a garage is very high.

You may not have noticed but the places with the doors open are generally exhaust and tire fitting shops. They are constantly having vehicles coming and going. Thus the expensive heat is being wasted every time the door opens. They just leave the door open and don't bother with heat. Some have radiant heaters, but most of the heat is wasted.

A garage that is carrying out jobs that may take hours will be able to retain the heat with the doors shut.

No mechanic in his right mind will want to spend eight hours a say in an open fronted workshop.
 
AlchoPwn said:
If you've ever been affected by carbon monoxide, you know you don't get much of a window to act, and clearly the right answer would have been to open the garage door, but people often make the wrong diagnosis in a situation.
Click to expand...
It's also the case that one lungful of almost any gas without any oxygen will put you out like a light. Not withstanding the CO, if someone got a big breath of (say) exhaust fumes that had no oxygen in it to speak of, they'd probably pass out right away and then succumb to asphyxia and/CO posing while unconscious.
 
Coal said:
It's also the case that one lungful of almost any gas without any oxygen will put you out like a light. Not withstanding the CO, if someone got a big breath of (say) exhaust fumes that had no oxygen in it to speak of, they'd probably pass out right away and then succumb to asphyxia and/CO posing while unconscious.
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My Mum revealed to me at the weekend that she and my Dad nearly died on their honeymoon from CO gassing.
They'd stayed in a Temperance hotel which had a dodgy heating system and they felt ill. My Dad worked out what was wrong and staggered off to reception to complain. They were put in a different room. These days, that whole hotel would have been shut down.
 
Coal said:
It's also the case that one lungful of almost any gas without any oxygen will put you out like a light. Not withstanding the CO, if someone got a big breath of (say) exhaust fumes that had no oxygen in it to speak of, they'd probably pass out right away and then succumb to asphyxia and/CO posing while unconscious.
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Yup. And CO poisoning can be an incredibly insidious - as well as rapid - process. I think many people tend to assume that lethality always announces itself in some way prior to its action - which is not the case.

When he left the army my brother worked with another ex-soldier who had set up a company installing wood burners and fireplaces. When some rich, whinging baby-boomer compained about all the regs and red-tape involved in putting a log-burner in his kitchen, and suggested that it was all just a way of squeezing more money out of him, it was calmly explained to him that putting a bomb in his kitchen would be hardly more dangerous than a badly fitted burner. Which is not far off the mark.
 
AnonyJoolz said:
This ^ people dying as a slave to shiny posh stuff, what a waste.
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Unless you're a car nut, you won't understand. For some it is actually a way of life and takes up virtually every waking hour. I'm a car nut but not in that category. Agree it's a waste though, but not really any different from coming a cropper for the sake of a nice walk in the hills, paddling in the oceans, climbing a mountain, breaking your neck kicking a ball about a field, and all other human activity which, on the face of it, appears wholly unnecessary to other people.
 
PeteS said:
Unless you're a car nut, you won't understand. For some it is actually a way of life and takes up virtually every waking hour. I'm a car nut but not in that category. Agree it's a waste though, but not really any different from coming a cropper for the sake of a nice walk in the hills, paddling in the oceans, climbing a mountain, breaking your neck kicking a ball about a field, and all other human activity which, on the face of it, appears wholly unnecessary to other people.
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I'm not a car nut. If they'd died driving the thing, having fun, thoroughly enjoying what they do then fair enough. That's never a waste even if others can't understand. I will fly in smallish aircraft over the Himalayas every other year or so (which is still statistically safer than driving to an airport in London) to visit family & friends in a country I love, but some folks think I'm mad.

It's the idea that they wanted to keep their shiny posh stuff looking so shiny that it killed them that is such a waste in my own view.
 
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