• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Covert Sign Codes (Hobos, Tramps, Gypsies, Criminals, etc.)

A

Anonymous

Guest
I took my dog for a walk this morning at about 8:30 and when I returned home there was a line of stones on the pavement running from my neighbours wall to the kerb. The only explanation I can think of is that kids on their way to school did it, But why? Is there some new fad sweeping the country that I don't know about? or did I interupt groundforce before they could finish?:confused:
 
Must've been kids, barrow - hope they had planning perimission!

Carole
 
Swing the lamp and pull up a sandbag!

Out here in the Desert. On the many tracks that go on for miles and even up in the mountains the local population put stones in lines and mounds next to tracks/roads, with wierd attributes stuck to them as well sometimes like Plastic bottles or toys etc. These are, I am reliably told put there as markers to indicate things such as directions to dwellings or water etc. I think the line of stones was probably meant as a marker to someone. To paint the wall, Break in to the house, get the money from this guy or something similiar.
 
I vaguely remember reading about an old Gypsey Code of symbols that was painted on or near places that were sympathetic to their lifestyle.
The signs would denote properties where they could replenish supplies, or water the horses, or set up camp for the night etc.

Anyone remember more details (it's likely we're all too young to recall the days of horse-drawn Gypsey caravans!)
:)
 
Sounds like the tramp's signs, David.

Things like:- "Good for a feed."

Or:-

"Bad people, will set the dogs on you!!!!"

The other David!!!!!!
 
I think those Romany signs are called 'Patrins' but know know much more about it than that !
 
I've been wondering about this for a while. A few years ago the city council where I live sent out sheets to all the houses in the area (maybe the whole city, I don't know) with a list of symbols which criminals used for carrying out break ins. Apparently these symbols were being scratched on doors in order that other criminals would recognise and use them. There were symbols for woman living alone, nothing here, guard dog, rich couple etc. All of these appartments are inside blocks of flats, they do not open onto the street or any public area. Now, what I'm wondering is why would criminals leave obvious symbols on doors that anyone could see, rather than just spreading the information by word of mouth or at least private correspondence.

Is this something that happens everywhere, am I missing something obvious? I put this in Urban Legends because it all seems a bit unlikely to me although I received one of the sheets myself.
 
Seems incredibly unlikely to me. Why would a criminal want to help another criminal? The whole essence of being a criminal is that you're a selfish twat who doesn't give a shit for anyone else. I mean if a criminal knows a good house to burgle, is he really going to let his competition know about it? What does he get out of it? To start up such a system requires trust that others are going to continue it without abusing the privilige, which, being criminals, they almost certainly wouldn't.
 
The symbols on my sheet were far more simplistic, a little like Nordic runes maybe. I wish I still had it but I moved house and I haven't seen it since. It did seem to be officially sent by the council though and all the neighbours got one too. Everyone was looking at their doors for days and imagining ordinary scratches were something sinister.
 
Sounds like a legpull to me. Some wag has persuaded the officials to take a UL seriously, and then obligingly provided a diagram of the relevant marks.

Incidentally, there are dozens of reasons why such a system would not exist, apart from the fine points made above about criminal selfishness.
Most burglaries are opportunistic. Most burglars are surprisingly young. Time of day is more important in a burglar's decision to enter a property than is its location, and so on. It doesn't make sense to convey any of these things to other criminals as they are individual decisions.

I'd like to see a copy of the diagram, any chance?
 
In England, up to WWII, such symbols were used by tramps, tinkers and gypsies (who called them patrins) to indicate the freindliness, generosity or employment availability in the household. As said before, it's unlikely that the modern criminal is so organised that they have re-created a secret language just to aid strangers and rival 'firms'.
Could just be kids 'doodling' and the UL that relies on modern paranoia about crime has done the rest.
 
Sounded like a wind up to me as well, although I wouldn't have thought it would be so easy to get the council to fall for it too.
 
Slight sidestep - Reminds me of this nugget of "undeworld lore" (if thats the word for it).

I remember years ago some very dodgy associates used to "foam burgular alarms", they claimed if you squirted an aerosol of shaving foam into a burgular alarms vents (in the box on the outside of the building) then it couldnt go off, but the alarm system still worked (so the owner still thought he was safe). Ive fitted burgular alarms before and I thought this was rubbish, but left them to believe it was true.
 
Another thing to think about....
Unlike hoboes or gypsys, who can visit a home more than once for whatever reasons, food, day work etc.
Burglery is most often a one time shot. How many times could they do repete business at the same home?
Peace
=^..^=217
 
BuckeyeJones said:
Another thing to think about....
Unlike hoboes or gypsys, who can visit a home more than once for whatever reasons, food, day work etc.
Burglery is most often a one time shot. How many times could they do repete business at the same home?

Surprisingly often, I believe, because if you burgle a house you are absolutely guaranteed that by the next month the residents will have replaced the all the old stuff you took with brand spanking new stuff which you can nick and sell for a much higher price than you got for their old stuff.
 
Nah, the foam in burglar alarms thing is true, but you've got the wrong kind of foam. What's used is that expanding self-hardening stuff that you use in loft insulation, or for filling in gaps in masonry. You can get in in DIY places in small aerosol cans.

As far as I'm aware, it's more often used for car alarms, than house burgalar alarms. You slide under the car and, if the car's horn is the audible output and there isn't a seperate siren, you fill it up with this stuff, which prevents it working.

I'd imagine it's pretty good for clogging up the moving parts of anything you'd want to tamper with, really.
 
Alistair P said:
Nah, the foam in burglar alarms thing is true, but you've got the wrong kind of foam. What's used is that expanding self-hardening stuff that you use in loft insulation, or for filling in gaps in masonry. You can get in in DIY places in small aerosol cans.

As far as I'm aware, it's more often used for car alarms, than house burgalar alarms. You slide under the car and, if the car's horn is the audible output and there isn't a seperate siren, you fill it up with this stuff, which prevents it working.

I'd imagine it's pretty good for clogging up the moving parts of anything you'd want to tamper with, really.

That sounds like itll work, you can believe how idiots corrupt it into shaving foam tho :)
 
OAP s as repeat targets

Criminals will sell information of vulnerable people to other crims. For example, crim will fix drive way, guttering etc for cash in hand. If victim seems to have a decent amount of cash at hand, their info can be sold or traded with other crims.

this information was recieved from my local police, and i had to deliver info to OAP s on the topic of distraction burglary. A truly horrible offence.
 
My folks live in a small village and the local neighbourhood watch have been round in the last week or so telling people to be warey of piles of sticks outside the house. They have been informed that this a code for the house being a soft target.
I take it with a pinch of salt but they think it's true.
 
I can clearly remember in the sixties, reading a book on scouting, which explained "Tramp marks", these were usually at the gatepost, and told other "gentlemen of the road" valuable information such as 'fierce dog' or 'kind lady' or 'will give food for work'. and they did indeed resemble runic or ogham symbols, being simply scratch marks in various combinations.
 
It's certainly possible that it might happen on a small scale, especially if the burglars were from an extended family or ethnic group which had this as a tradition. Or even just one very active burglar who found it easier than writing down that number 17 had a big dog.

As another link, it's worth mentioning the recent practice of 'warchalking', putting marks to show where wireless internet access is available.-

"Inspired by the signs hobos left each other in the depression-era United States, Jones has developed a set of marks to be chalked on to walls and pavements by the owners or users of wireless networks. Passers-by can then see that the area is covered by an access point, and get online. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/ ... 99,00.html


"
 
It seems like nobody's really sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_railroad
Folklore
Since the 1980s, claims have arisen that quilt designs were used to signal and direct slaves to escape routes and assistance. The first published work documenting an oral history source was in 1999, so it is difficult to evaluate the veracity of these claims. Many accounts also mention spirituals and other songs that contained coded information intended to help navigate the railroad. Songs such as "Steal Away" and other field songs were often passed down purely orally. Tracing their origins and exact meanings is difficult. In any case, a great number of African-American songs of the period deal with themes of freedom and escape, and distinguishing coded information from expression and sentiment may not be possible.

This page seems to be debunking the idea of the quilt meanings:

http://www.ugrrquilt.hartcottagequilts.com/
In 1999, authors Jacqueline Tobin and Raymond Dobard published a remarkable book. Half a dozen years earlier, Tobin wrote, she had been approached by an elderly black woman in Charleston, South Carolina with a surprising story: during the half century before the Civil War, quilts had been used by African-Americans as a means of conveying messages concerning escape on the Underground Railroad. Not surprisingly, the "Underground Railroad Quilt Code," as it came to be known, quickly captured the popular imagination: for generations, a secret code originating in Africa had been "hidden in plain view" in everyday quilts! Quilt stores now sell "Code" books, tour guides and antique dealers use the "Code" to sell antiques, and educators struggling to make sense of Black History Month use "Code" storybooks to teach variations of the story to children in Social Studies classes.

Meanwhile, professional historians and an increasingly vocal group of laymen and women - students of quilt history and the history of African-Americans - have decried the "Quilt Code" as without factual basis, accusing its proponents of sloppy scholarship at best and sheer hucksterism at worst. They wonder why none of the people asserting they learned the "Code" from family oral history claims a single ancestor who actually escaped North. And they complain that just as the history of African-Americans had gained acceptance as worthy of serious study, documented stories of black accomplishments and heroism were being ignored in favor of a convenient pop-culture tale whose dubiousness insults the very culture it ostensibly celebrates.

Which view is correct? Does the "Underground Railroad Quilt Code" have any basis in fact?

In the years since the publication of Hidden in Plain View this writer has studied the "Quilt Code" in depth. Research included conversations with Serena Wilson, niece of Ozella Williams, and lengthy correspondence with Teresa Kemp, Wilson’s daughter, who also promotes the "Quilt Code". I was disappointed that although her emails to me totaled more than 6,000 words, and she not only repeatedly stated that she wanted to answer in detail any questions I had but offered to send me documentary evidence she said her family had kept for generations, when I sent her specific questions regarding the individual quilt blocks described below, Kemp’s emails to me abruptly stopped.

In late July 2004 Kemp again made contact with me, blaming a computer virus for her two-year silence. Over a period of about 10 days she sent me another dozen emails totaling another 3,000 words, none of which answered any of my questions about the "Quilt Code". She did, however, make a number of new claims, including that the Daughters of the Confederacy are somehow behind objections to the "Quilt Code" myth, and that historians reject the "Quilt Code" because they "did not bother to check or get other information".

As she did in 2002, Kemp repeatedly promised to answer specific questions I sent her about the "Quilt Code". She even agreed to send me copies of the evidence she claims to have unearthed. She never sent me anything, nor did she ever reply to follow-up emails asking for their whereabouts. But while Kemp may have abandoned her correspondence with me, she continues to send out notices of lectures and other appearances, and applied for a Federal government grant to teach the "Code".. In 2005 she announced she had opened a "museum" in Atlanta, for which she charges admission.

Does anybody who knows quilts have an expert opinion?
 
On a similar note, reading this post made me wonder just how American hobo symbols originated. Examples:
http://www.slackaction.com/signroll.htm

How could a group of disorganized homeless men invent their own alphabet which would come to be understood nationwide? Can it be entirely explained by boxcar-hopping tramps passing hundreds of different coded symbols along to other men in their predicament as they crisscrossed the country? Logic says that this must be the case but I can't help but remain skeptical.
 
Don't know anything about hobos, but the 2/10 meaning there are thieves about is I'd say quite common code. When my mother worked in a department store 40 odd years ago it was the verbal code the manager used to warn of suspected shoplifters. 2 (eyes) on 10 (fingers)
 
Interesting etymology! I see you're in Australia. So that code was known there back in the day, as well? So when did the language die? I've worked retail, and that phrase means nothing to me.

And this begs the question, with this kind of sophisticated networking, why didn't hobos rule the world?
 
Two answers.

a) No, they are too lazy

or

b) Yes, they do, but they havent noticed yet.
 
I think with hobo symbols, there is more of a direct history for the symbols. They also seem pretty utilitarian.

From THIS SITE
Hobo Sign Language Targeted El Paso
By David Uhl

Graffiti covers scores of walls, businesses and residences in El Paso today, a result of gangs communicating with each other while leaving the general public in the dark. This isn't the first time that distinct groups have used code to converse with each other.

During the Depression thousands of unemployed men turned hobo overnight flocked to Texas because they heard from others traveling the country that there was a town out West called El Paso known for its generosity to beggars. This news reached the vagabonds through a simple system of symbols which could be found on street curbs and buildings nationwide.

A February 8, 1932 El Paso Times article carried the following code used by the hobos of the 1930s to spread world of El Paso's generosity:

1. Two hobos, traveling together, have gone the direction of the arrows.
2. Hobos not welcome. Will be put to work on rock pile, sawing wood, or hard labor.
3. This sign depicts the bars of a jail.
4. Means "OUT" or "GET OUT." Poor pickings.
5. The town itself is no good, but the churches and missions are kindly disposed.
6. This is a good place for hobos to meet other hobos.
7. All the ministers, mission heads, and Christian leaders are disposed to welcome transients.
8. The pendulum indicates that the people here swing back and forth in their attitude toward hobos, sometimes friendly and other times unkind.
9. Represents two rails and a cross tie. Means "Railway Terminal" or "Division Point," a good place to board trains in different directions.
10. This sign represents teeth; it means the police or people are hostile to tramps.
11. This means "the jail is alive with cooties."
12. Keep on moving: the police, the churches, and the people are no good.
13. This is a swell place to stop: these people are bighearted.
14. Food may be had for the asking.
15. The sign for "OK." People are very good, kindly disposed.
16. Best results are secured if two hobos travel together, not so good for a lone hobo.

As a result of its generosity, El Paso came to be known as an "easy mark" for beggars. These men could make from $2 to $5 a day or more panhandling when working men took home much less: Olive D. McGuire, secretary of the El Paso Community Chest, warned townspeople to inspect their curbs and be thrilled of hobos had placed an emblem of lattice work there- a symbol meaning "hobos not welcome." McGuire distributed sheets containing the hobo language and asked residents to send panhandlers to organized agencies for help.

The generosity of El Pasoans has continued through the years even though the city is not affluent. Some restaurants in town give their left-over food to shelters or charity organizations, or they simply give it to the homeless who ask, rather than throwing it away.

Although the hobo sign language no longer exists, many homeless still know that El Paso is a generous city, recently having been named one of the top 50 U.S. cities for charitable giving.

A List of SIGNS AND SYMBOLS

And you can see some examples of hobo art (if anybody's interested) HERE and HERE
 
The Burglars Guide

Saw an article in the Daily Express newspaper today stating that in certain parts of the UK, burglars are using chalk symbols scrawled on the walls of potential properties to burgle.

The symbols denote whether the house contains anything worth stealing, whether an alarm is fitted, wealthy owners, etc, etc.

Aparrently one Malcolm Barton, a former Walsall local councillor, is giving out warning leaflets to community organisations warning them of this menace..

I'm sure I've heard this before somewhere & it bears all the hallmarks of an Urban Legend; local man giving out warning leaflets to community, no first hand evidence from somebody who has found one of these daubings on their wall, that kind of thing..

Has anybody heard of this before, or seen any similar reports?
 
Back
Top