COVID-19 / Coronavirus: Disinformation, Fake News & Scams

Naughty_Felid

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Ex-celebs/famous people are seeing there's a potential payday to spreading all this conspiracy nonsense. They've seen Icke make a living from it, it's not difficult all you need to do is sign on up on Twitter, then hope one of the Red Tops will come to interview you.

You have to sacrifice your self-respect and integrity - but it pays the bills and gets a tiny bit of the limelight back to ease that aching neediness.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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"aside from Vox, who are ultra-conservative nutters "

Thankfully still only polling around 10% of the votes. If they ever win power, I would fear for the people of Gibraltar, 99% of whom reject Spanish control - especially if Spain embraces neo-Francoist fascism.
 

hunck

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The one that the UK government is stocking up on?

maximus otter
Far be it from me to defend this government but according to that report:

UK scientists have been examining whether the drug can be used to treat the disease, rather than prevent it. The UK does not at present recommend its use.

A source with knowledge of the contract said the drug was being bought in bulk so that if it proves to be effective as a treatment there is a ready supply. “All of the drugs being purchased can be used to treat other conditions too so they don’t really go to waste if they aren’t proved effective for Covid,” the source said.
 

PeteS

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Thinks.... Government app.
Thinks..... Previous Government IT Projects.
Thinks.... Nah. I’m good.

What I don”t get about an app is that if I’m in a car park next to a guy with his windows closed and his bluetooth contacts mine and I respond, do I have to follow up and self-isolate again. If the person next door connects via bluetooth, do I then have to self-isolate even though we’re a thin wall apart? What is the range and does it recognise walls, windows and doors?
Seems that glaring gaps in the security of these tracing apps have already been found and reported. And the third party contractors responsible for developing the UK app have already had to apologise for leaking personal details of several hundred UK volunteer participants. If anything was 100% predictable it was this.
 

Cochise

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I can't help feeling that the mood of the nation is going to change somewhat when they realise there are no jobs to go back to, no University courses, etc. etc. I was in Liverpool yesterday (taking my dog to the animal hospital) and everyone seemed to be enjoying their holiday.

We've collectively lost our marbles over this. Come and revisit these messages this time next year.
 

cycleboy2

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I can't help feeling that the mood of the nation is going to change somewhat when they realise there are no jobs to go back to, no University courses, etc. etc. I was in Liverpool yesterday (taking my dog to the animal hospital) and everyone seemed to be enjoying their holiday.

We've collectively lost our marbles over this. Come and revisit these messages this time next year.
Yes and no. We have, after all, suffered in the region of 55,000 deaths (to date), which I suspect makes a lot of people pretty angry.

I know it's difficult to compare countries but the likes of supposed economic basket case Greece (166 deaths), Hong Kong (four deaths in a densely populated country), New Zealand (21 deaths), Australia (100) and perhaps the most apt comparison Germany (8270 deaths) show how different countries have coped much better. Throw in Senegal (30) and Ghana (31) and it's pretty clear that the United Kingdom (or England in particular) has objectively handled the situation very, very badly. We were one of the latest European countries to suffer badly but chose not to learn – how we didn't stop a lot of flights coming in much earlier is a mystery to me and even now the ONS reckons we had 137,000 cases in the first two weeks of May. However you cut the cloth, it doesn't look great.
 
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Cochise

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Yes and no. We have, after all, suffered in the region of 55,000 deaths (to date), which I suspect makes a lot of people pretty angry.

I know it's difficult to compare countries but the likes of supposed economic basket case Greece (166 deaths), Hong Kong (four deaths in a densely populated country), New Zealand (21 deaths), Australia (100) and perhaps the most apt comparison Germany (8270 deaths) show how different countries have coped much better. Throw in Senegal (30) and Ghana (31) and it's pretty clear that the United Kingdom (or England in particular) has objectively handled the situation very, very badly. We were one of the latest European countries to suffer badly but chose not to learn – how we didn't stop a lot of flights coming in much earlier is a mystery to me and even now the ONS reckons we had 137,000 cases. However you cut the cloth, it doesn't look great.
We dithered. It is debatable which strategy is the best, but it is clearly important (looking at the countries that have fared better than us) to decide early and stick to it. In the case of lockdown , which of course has enormous economic consequences - and poverty causes deaths - it has to be early and as short as possible.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Yes and no. We have, after all, suffered in the region of 55,000 deaths (to date), which I suspect makes a lot of people pretty angry.

I know it's difficult to compare countries but the likes of supposed economic basket case Greece (166 deaths), Hong Kong (four deaths in a densely populated country), New Zealand (21 deaths), Australia (100) and perhaps the most apt comparison Germany (8270 deaths) show how different countries have coped much better. Throw in Senegal (30) and Ghana (31) and it's pretty clear that the United Kingdom (or England in particular) has objectively handled the situation very, very badly. We were one of the latest European countries to suffer badly but chose not to learn – how we didn't stop a lot of flights coming in much earlier is a mystery to me and even now the ONS reckons we had 137,000 cases in the first two weeks of May. However you cut the cloth, it doesn't look great.
Deaths do seem to be lower in warmer countries, whether that's anything to do with the weather hasn't been established. Some poorer countries may have lower deaths simply because they don't have the testing facilities and are only recording those fatalities where they have been able to test.

That said, it doesn't look good by any measure and I'm not surprised that we and the Septics have the highest death rates in Western countries.
 

maximus otter

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...I'm not surprised that we and the Septics have the highest death rates in Western countries.
Nope, it’s Belgium.

What we need to do is establish consistent stats. Are we counting:

a) People who die of C19, or;

b) People who died displaying C19-like symptoms, or;

c) People who died with C19?

I think we’d be surprised at the numbers if we went with (a) which - to my mind - is the only number that really matters.

At the moment the Apocalypse Industry can quote any mix ‘n match of all three, as long as it suits the narrative.

maximus otter
 

ramonmercado

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That'll teach him!

A pastor and former presidential candidate in Cameroon who claimed he had cured coronavirus via laying hands has reportedly died of the infection.

Frankline Ndifor died on Saturday at the age of 39, Voice of America reported. The authorities had to use force to enter Ndifor’s residence because his followers, who believed he was a prophet, had blocked entry as they prayed for his resurrection.

“This is a pastor that has been laying hands [on the sick] and claiming that he cures COVID-19,” one of his followers, Rigobert Che, told VOA. “If you, the person that claims that you are curing COVID-19, you are dead, what about the fellow people that were affected by the COVID-19? Now that he is dead, I do not know how the people that he was laying hands on will be healed.”

Dr. Gaelle Nnanga told VOA Ndifor’s followers called him to the scene. Upon arrival, Nnanga found the pastor in “agony.” Ndifor died less than 10 minutes later.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/frankline-ndifor-pastor-cameroon_n_5ec60a00c5b6dfc078e0f7ee
 

Ogdred Weary

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That'll teach him!

A pastor and former presidential candidate in Cameroon who claimed he had cured coronavirus via laying hands has reportedly died of the infection.

Frankline Ndifor died on Saturday at the age of 39, Voice of America reported. The authorities had to use force to enter Ndifor’s residence because his followers, who believed he was a prophet, had blocked entry as they prayed for his resurrection.

“This is a pastor that has been laying hands [on the sick] and claiming that he cures COVID-19,” one of his followers, Rigobert Che, told VOA. “If you, the person that claims that you are curing COVID-19, you are dead, what about the fellow people that were affected by the COVID-19? Now that he is dead, I do not know how the people that he was laying hands on will be healed.”

Dr. Gaelle Nnanga told VOA Ndifor’s followers called him to the scene. Upon arrival, Nnanga found the pastor in “agony.” Ndifor died less than 10 minutes later.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/frankline-ndifor-pastor-cameroon_n_5ec60a00c5b6dfc078e0f7ee
He was a hero, selflessly absorbing all the covid from others.
 

maximus otter

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TwitFace reports British army ambulances seen massing on M25 for lockdown crackdown.”

maximus otter
 
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cycleboy2

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Nope, it’s Belgium.

What we need to do is establish consistent stats. Are we counting:

a) People who die of C19, or;

b) People who died displaying C19-like symptoms, or;

c) People who died with C19?

I think we’d be surprised at the numbers if we went with (a) which - to my mind - is the only number that really matters.

At the moment the Apocalypse Industry can quote any mix ‘n match of all three, as long as it suits the narrative.

maximus otter
Mr Otter, I accept what you say to some degree (and Belgium has clearly ballsed up at least as badly as the UK and US, though it doesn't have pretensions of being a world power) but pretty much regardless of metric you use, the figures in the UK and US are so massively out of kilter with the countries I mentioned earlier that I think the final narrative will come to the same conclusion. Yes, those distinctions are important, but the UK's figures of deaths over that which would be expected at this time of year (they matter to me because I happen to live in the UK, as do most of my family) are a shitstorm however you read it.

Would I prefer to be in South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Germany, Greece at this time? Yes. No surprise in some cases, but Greece? Even Greece aren't willing to accept UK visitors and in their shoes I'd feel the same way - https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-20...-flights-to-tourist-destinations-from-july-1/
 

PeteS

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QUOTE="Ogdred Weary, post: 1965501, member: 45121"]
Deaths do seem to be lower in warmer countries, whether that's anything to do with the weather hasn't been established. Some poorer countries may have lower deaths simply because they don't have the testing facilities and are only recording those fatalities where they have been able to test.

That said, it doesn't look good by any measure and I'm not surprised that we and the Septics have the highest death rates in Western countries.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think we can really rely on the numbers of deaths reported anyway, could be underestimated or overestimated and as you say recording is probably hit and miss. I do wonder whether the lower death rate in warmer countries has some connection with the fact that populations spend more time outdoors where apparently the chances of infection decrease.
 

PeteS

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What I find truly appalling amongst all this is the huge death rate in care homes in the UK. These were entirely avoidable, exposing the vast shortcomings in infection control in these facilities, exacerbated by the fact that homes were unable to refuse to take in untested and already diagnosed patients from hospitals. Even prior to Covid, such control was entirely incompetent and I hope that action will be taken against the directors of these massive companies who have found to have been negligent. I'm not generally a fan of the blame game, but this issue is dear to my heart. I'm so glad that Ms Petes came out of the care home game just before the crisis started.
 

maximus otter

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...exacerbated by the fact that homes were unable to refuse to take in untested and already diagnosed patients from hospitals. Even prior to Covid, such control was entirely incompetent and I hope that action will be taken against the directors of these massive companies...
The NHS dumps 15,000 untested elderly people out of hospitals, and you want to sue private companies? l’d be interested to see your working here.

maximus otter
 

PeteS

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The NHS dumps 15,000 untested elderly people out of hospitals, and you want to sue private companies? l’d be interested to see your working here.

maximus otter
"Dumps" being the operative word of course.
The abysmal infection control in the homes themselves should be the main criteria to establish whether negligence has been involved. It's a very fundamental issue in homes, and one which I doubt will ever be resolved. I've witnessed some pretty gross stuff myself even when visiting residents. But don't get me really started on this issue.
 

maximus otter

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"Dumps" being the operative word of course.
The abysmal infection control in the homes themselves should be the main criteria to establish whether negligence has been involved. It's a very fundamental issue in homes, and one which I doubt will ever be resolved. I've witnessed some pretty gross stuff myself even when visiting residents. But don't get me really started on this issue.
My point stands, though: When the sainted NHS wheelbarrows 15,000 potentially-infected OAPs into the private sector, my first inclination would be to take action against the NHS, not the recipients.

maximus otter
 

Min Bannister

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"Dumps" being the operative word of course.
The abysmal infection control in the homes themselves should be the main criteria to establish whether negligence has been involved. It's a very fundamental issue in homes, and one which I doubt will ever be resolved. I've witnessed some pretty gross stuff myself even when visiting residents. But don't get me really started on this issue.
I think even the best run care home in the world would have trouble when people with a highly infectious disease which is especially likely to kill elderly people are deliberately put in them. And the staff aren't even given PPE. It is pretty much manslaughter.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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And, given our very high population and population density, not to mention the U.K. being a major international travel hub and with our substantial Chinese community, that does seem something of a perfect storm for pandemic infection.
It would have been astonishing if we had a lower infection and death rate than more sparsely populated neighbouring countries.
 

Ringo

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There are so many interesting factors to look at in all of this. Both now and more so in a years time.

How reliable are the numbers coming out of different countries? Russia for example. Over 320,000 cases but only 3,000 deaths? Let's not even get started on China. Even Sweden now has slipped from exact daily numbers to numbers including deaths from the past 3 or 4 days.

Population densities - how tightly together live people? For example, England is the most crowded country in Europe. Belgium and the Netherlands are also very "crowded" when you look at landmass/population. The central corridor of the UK is pretty much one big town from bottom to top. The USA has alot of wide open spaces to naturally slow down the spread. Sweden is mostly forest with 3 major cities and then a few minor ones. The virus here has hit the Capital hard but the other cities are lagging behind.

Genetics - it may well turn out that the UK population is genetically more susceptible to the virus than say our French or German cousins.

Environmental factors - maybe years of living in a damp, cold, wet climate has made the UK more vulnerable. I know that asthma levels are more or less the same in the UK as here in Sweden yet ventilation in homes and air quality is better here. The UK has a lot of rising damp, mould indoors, lichen, moss and algae on street walls, pavements. It's wet on an island. Maybe this has a detrimental effect on the lungs?

Culture and Social aspects as Infection vectors - Not just face kissing, shaking hands and not washing hands etc but the pig ignorance of the general population who still gather for barbecues, on beaches, birthdays and then sneak off for lock-ins because "the Government aren't telling me what to do. I'm a grown up and it's my choice".

Legacy health problems - maybe years of working in coal mines and being around that sort of pollution weakened the older generations of the working classes, lessening their ability to ward off the virus.

However you look at it, there is probably a list of 50 or so variables which could explain/distort the figures. It starts to become aparent how hard it would be to create a mathematical model to allow for ALL of this.
 
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