COVID-19: Non-Medical Effects (Responses; Disruptions; Etc.)

Cloudbusting

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No, it's about the impact on people who:
- have lost their jobs or businesses
- will die of cancer/heart disease/other treatable illnesses because the NHS is not diagnosing or treating them
- are suffering with their mental health
- cannot see their families for what might be their last Christmas (think elderly/terminally ill)
- etc. etc.

We should not be decimating the entire economy, and people's lives, over this. Precautions should be taken where necessary for those that need it, and help/support should be given to people who feel they need to isolate/shield. But it should be down to the individual whether or not they want to:
- go to work / work from home
- see their families / don't see their families
- open their business / close their business
- travel / not travel
- etc. etc.


I realise this will be an unpopular view on here, but I'm no less entitled to say it than anyone else's view. We all have a voice. :btime:
You've raised reasonable and fair points. I probably sit in what you'd call the 'popular opinion camp' on here and yet I've often played devil's advocate in my head, thinking, COVID is causing so much damage beyond direct deaths, so what if we just let it be and attempted to protect the extremely vulnerable etc?

I think we're lucky that COVID doesn't have a high mortality rate and that medical professionals have learnt how to treat and manage the symptoms in a more effective way. However, the bugger of this disease is that it spreads so easily, so if we switched to that approach, I feel there's a real risk hospitals would become swamped very quickly. From that we could reach a point where COVID patients could be turned away (to potentially fatal consequences), and the NHS would struggle to provide other essential services such as cancer treatment. I also think it would be nigh on impossible for society to truly protect the extremely vulnerable in these circumstances.

I'm sure I'll be told that the NHS hasn't struggled and has coped adequately so far, but from what I've heard from those who work in it that's not the case. The lockdowns/restrictions of course have helped to stem the stream of patients so far too.

So that's where my head is currently at... if we were looking at a long term future with no effective vaccine my viewpoint might be different. Like you say we're all entitled to opinion and these are my current thoughts, I'm not saying that I'm stating fact.

P.S. I am planning on having Christmas with family though, even if it's rather scaled back!
 

CALGACUS03

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From The Guardian

You know when you're been watching too much porn when the paragraph..

“It’s absolutely crazy that you can get a tattoo but not go to the pub,” said Kieran Devine. “You can have a facial where someone is standing inches away from you but you can’t go to a well-run pub with table service – it’s complete madness.”
reads far worse than it was intended!:eek:
 

hunck

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Calls for Danish mink to be dug up

The two burial sites in Jutland are highly controversial - one is near a bathing lake and the other not far from a source of drinking water.

The discovery of a mutated form of the virus prompted a cull of nearly 17 million mink

The government has admitted that the cull was mishandled - but now politicians are arguing about how best to dispose of more than 10,000 tonnes of dead mink.

The grisly mass burial got even more macabre when there were reports of buried mink resurfacing because of the nitrogen and phosphorus gases produced by their decay.

Law experts quoted by Danish TV2 say the government went ahead with mass burial without getting an environmental impact assessment.
The opposition Liberal Party (Venstre) says the mink should be dug up and loaded into containers of manure, which would allegedly be a safer disposal method.

She admitted that mass burial had not been the best method - incineration would have been preferable - but the spread of Covid-19 on mink farms had made the disposal urgent and there had been no other quick way to handle such a quantity of dead animals.
 

Kondoru

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Im not sure I want to get banished to Cornwall.
 

charliebrown

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Our families stayed separated during the U.S. Thanksgiving, making a strange Thanksgiving.

What to do about Christmas?
 

maximus otter

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Month delay to cancer treatment raises death risk by up to 13%, study suggests

04/11/2020


A one month delay to a cancer patient’s treatment could raise their risk of dying from the disease, research suggests.

The earlier a tumour is spotted, the higher a patient’s hopes of recovery, with advanced cancer being more difficult to treat.

By July, up to 2 million routine breast, bowel and cervical cancer screenings were said to have been postponed as a result of the UK’s first coronavirus lockdown. Guidelines also reportedly advised radiotherapy, a go-to cancer treatment, be delayed or avoided in certain circumstances.

With people in England preparing to spend at least the next month at home, officials have repeatedly stressed the NHS is open for business, with screenings expected to go ahead.

This appears to be critical to a cancer patient’s survival, with scientists from Queen’s University in Kingston, Canada, reporting a four-week delay could raise their death risk by up to 13%.

When the first lockdown was imposed on 23 March...the number of people visiting their GP with suspected cancer symptoms who were then referred for tests dropped by 60% in April, figures revealed.

At the end of May, urgent referrals were down 45% compared with pre-pandemic levels.

...the scientists found an eight-week delay to breast cancer surgery increased the risk of death by 17%, rising to 26% when the operation was postponed by 12 weeks.

If every breast cancer patient in the UK had their surgery pushed back three months, for example during the first lockdown, 1,400 “extra” deaths would occur that year, the results suggest.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/me...13-study-suggests/ar-BB1aHrqZ?MSCC=1604189772

maximus otter
 

EnolaGaia

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Pandemic-era restrictions make it difficult for couples to marry - especially if they're coming from different nations. A European location has become a picturesque quickie marriage hotspot owing to these conditions. The location? Gibraltar ...
'Place of love': Gibraltar becomes marriage hotspot in pandemic

... Gibraltar requires minimum bureaucracy to get married and there are fewer border restrictions than other places, which has helped turn it into a wedding hotspot during the pandemic.

Couples just need to present their passports and birth certificates, and stay in the territory overnight either before or after their wedding. They then need to have their marriage registered by the authorities in their home country. ...

Wedding planners have reported huge demand from couples from outside the territory.

“It is absolutely insane. We just can’t get enough slots and spaces,” said Leanne Hindle, the director of wedding events company Marry Abroad Simply.

Many weddings held in Gibraltar involve couples of different nationalities in long-distance relationships who could not travel to each other’s countries to get married because of virus travel restrictions. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ibraltar-becomes-marriage-hotspot-in-pandemic
 
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Xanatic*

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Santa Claus is 1600 years old, that puts him in the risk group.

For this black friday shit it seems consumerism won out over caution here. Overcrowded shops. Was it the same for the UK?
 

Ogdred Weary

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Santa Claus is 1600 years old, that puts him in the risk group.

For this black friday shit it seems consumerism won out over caution here. Overcrowded shops. Was it the same for the UK?
"Non-essential" shops are closed in England, so the bulk of the UK. I can imagine people inundating Cardiff/Glasgow/Edinburgh, maybe even Newport and Swansea though.
 

Ogdred Weary

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My nephew is rather worried about Santa Claus catching covid. My sister had to reassure him that he has been well-isolated up at the North Pole.
I hope his reindeer and elves are social distancing.
 

Beresford

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"Non-essential" shops are closed in England, so the bulk of the UK. I can imagine people inundating Cardiff/Glasgow/Edinburgh, maybe even Newport and Swansea though.
Non-essential shops are closed in Glasgow, as well as in a number of other towns in Scotland. They are open in Edinburgh, no idea how busy have been.
 

maximus otter

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Bars, restaurants, cinemas and sports venues could turn away anyone who hasn't had a Covid-19 vaccine

Restaurants, bars and cinemas may turn customers away if they have not had a Covid jab, the new minister for the mass vaccine roll-out suggested tonight.

Nadhim Zahawi indicated that although an injection would be voluntary, some venues – including sports grounds – might insist on proof of one in return for granting entry.

The minister said individuals would have to decide for themselves but would be given the 'strong message' that jabs were good for their family, community and country.

Airlines have already been examining the idea of asking for 'immunity passports' as a condition of flying.

Some experts tonight said they were uneasy about such schemes and raised concerns over data privacy and human rights.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...as-turn-customers-without-Covid-jab-away.html

Asked if it would become virtually impossible to do anything without the vaccine, Zahawi said: "I think people have to make a decision but I think you'll probably find many service providers will want to engage in this in the way they did with the app."

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/uk-covid-vaccine-bars/2020/11/30/id/999347/

maximus otter
 

Beresford

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Bars, restaurants, cinemas and sports venues could turn away anyone who hasn't had a Covid-19 vaccine

Restaurants, bars and cinemas may turn customers away if they have not had a Covid jab, the new minister for the mass vaccine roll-out suggested tonight.

Nadhim Zahawi indicated that although an injection would be voluntary, some venues – including sports grounds – might insist on proof of one in return for granting entry.

The minister said individuals would have to decide for themselves but would be given the 'strong message' that jabs were good for their family, community and country.

Airlines have already been examining the idea of asking for 'immunity passports' as a condition of flying.

Some experts tonight said they were uneasy about such schemes and raised concerns over data privacy and human rights.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...as-turn-customers-without-Covid-jab-away.html

Asked if it would become virtually impossible to do anything without the vaccine, Zahawi said: "I think people have to make a decision but I think you'll probably find many service providers will want to engage in this in the way they did with the app."

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/uk-covid-vaccine-bars/2020/11/30/id/999347/

maximus otter
Not happening, according to a more senior member of the UK Government.
 

maximus otter

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Beresford

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“However, asked about the possibility of vaccine passports, Mr Gove told BBC Breakfast: "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, that's not the plan." “

(From linked item above).

Hardly a ringing rejection of the idea, is it?

maximus otter
There are probably many technical and legal reasons why it won't happen, but I don't try to predict anything after the year we've had.
 

EnolaGaia

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The owner of a UK tequila bar attempted to register his business as a religion to circumvent lockdown measures.
Tequila bar attempts to reclassify business as a religion in hopes of remaining open during the pandemic

Bars must remain closed in Nottingham – but places of worship are allowed to operate

The owner of a tequila bar in England is attempting to register his establishment as a religion in the hopes of meeting the regulations to keep his business operational during the pandemic.

James Aspell, the proprietor of 400 Rabbits, has admitted that his stunt is mostly aimed at raising awareness for the plight of England’s bar industry. Nottingham, where 400 Rabbits operates, is currently designated as a Tier Three area by the U.K. government, meaning it can only remain open for takeout or delivery.

But Aspell told Fox News he takes issue with the rules, questioning why other establishments – such as a nearby Christmas market – are still allowed to operate under the same tier. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/tequila-bar-reclassify-religion-remaining-open-pandemic
 

Stormkhan

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Thing is, all this talk of "essential/non-essential" shops, re-branding of bars as religions :rolleyes: and a brief conversation over the definition of a "substantial meal" by one "official" twerp stated to include scotch eggs, all points to two things:
1) The eagerness of anyone to look for loopholes in regulations, instead of embracing the 'spirit' of the law.
2) A lack of analysis by legal professions of said regulations.
Bottom line is - do what you want and IF said Council/Trading Standards/Police roll up, argue the toss with them. They've better things to do so will probably not think the fuss is worth it.
Probably.
More likely, said officialdom will sigh and shake their heads at the incisive argument put forward - then issue closure or a fine and suggest you can show off your "barrack-room" legal skills in a Magistrates Court.
 

Ogdred Weary

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I suppose a substantial meal means ordering a main course rather than a bar snack or snacks?
 

Lobeydosser

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Thing is, all this talk of "essential/non-essential" shops, re-branding of bars as religions :rolleyes: and a brief conversation over the definition of a "substantial meal" by one "official" twerp stated to include scotch eggs, all points to two things:
1) The eagerness of anyone to look for loopholes in regulations, instead of embracing the 'spirit' of the law.
2) A lack of analysis by legal professions of said regulations.
Bottom line is - do what you want and IF said Council/Trading Standards/Police roll up, argue the toss with them. They've better things to do so will probably not think the fuss is worth it.
Probably.
More likely, said officialdom will sigh and shake their heads at the incisive argument put forward - then issue closure or a fine and suggest you can show off your "barrack-room" legal skills in a Magistrates Court.
This is pretty much what I've seen since we went into tier 4 here in Glasgow - only hairdressers closed - most other shops have carried on as they were the week before - some like bookshops with click and collect and the Brewdog "pub" along the road seems to have decided it's actually a restuarant, so as well as carry out there are still folk inside with food and drink - bit harsh on the more traditional pubs hereabouts who have been closed pretty much the whole time. (and in normal times have better food as well as drink than the aforementioned place).
I suspect some are waiting to see if they are challenged and will "lawyer" up if need be.
The public meanwhile are actually pretty good - masks everywhere at all times and lots of social distancing.
 
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