COVID-19 Pandemic: Lessons Learned & Changes It's Justified

Roland Deschain

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So we’ve all seen the clear blue sky, breathed the clean air and seen the wildlife wander about empty streets. So what epiphanys have you had or what changes in behaviour do we need?

Me I’d like to see aviation fuel taxed properly killing casual aviation and accurately costing food miles.

I’d like NHS employees (under a certain income- not surgeons) sorted, no tax, more credits whatever it takes, it wouldn’t actually have to mean more budget for the nhs just a slight shift in the tax burden. Actually extend that to all caring professions. Who is looking after your old Mum?

Whats you’re bug bear?
 

Naughty_Felid

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I would like to see more manufacturing come back here.
As a nation, we need to be more prepared.
Sigh, and who would work these jobs?

How would these companies survive against companies in Asia, etc with lower overheads and a cheaper workforce?

Maybe the government could subsidize these companies - oh no that's too much like nationalization.

It's ok we're a part of a massive trade block...errr.
 

Analogue Boy

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I would like to see more manufacturing come back here.
As a nation, we need to be more prepared.
I’ve been saying for years that the old shipyards that provided work for whole communities should be revamped to provide apprenticeships in marine, industrial and tech design. I’ve also thought imports would only remain cheap while we have the ability to manufacture the same goods ourselves.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Manufacturing was dismantled in the UK during 80's as it had been failing for decades. Whether you agree with it or not, that's why it was done. The failure to invest the money made by flogging off our nationalized industries back into the country to prevent the booms and busts was criminal though. It also caused us to have figures of 12 million unemployed.

The wealthy are more wealthy the poorer are poorer. What has changed is you have a couple of generations who have no idea what it's like to get up at 05:00 to go to work or come home at midnight after finishing a shift. The boom to force kids through university rather than a trade, (which is now looked down on), has given us a generation of kids with bits of paper with "media studies" written on it, the rise of this type of study replaced that of the sciences which at least would have been a useful qualification.

Hence the "Polish" builders and plumber stereotypes, Like the fruit pickers people came over to do jobs we no longer want to do. The loss of apprenticeships and social clubs also prevented generations of kids from getting mentoring and guidance from the elders.

People don't want to buy stuff made in the UK if it means they can buy it for half the price from China. Changing the mindset of a population so far removed from manufacturing is going to be very difficult.
 
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tuco

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Manufacturing was dismantled in the UK during 80's as it had been failing for decades. Whether you agree with it or not, that's why it was done. The failure to invest the money made by flogging off our nationalized industries back into the country to prevent the booms and busts was criminal though. It also caused us to have figures of 12 million unemployed.

The wealthy are more wealthy the poorer are poorer. What has changed is you have a couple of generations who have no idea what it's like to get up at 05:00 to go to work or come home at midnight after finishing a shift. The boom to force kids through university rather than a trade, (which is now looked down on), has given us a generation of kids with bits of paper with "media studies" written on it, the rise of this type of study replaced that of the sciences which at least would have been a useful qualification.

Hence the "Polish" builders and plumber stereotypes, Like the fruit pickers people came over to do jobs we no longer want to do. Changing the mindset of a population so far removed from manufacturing is going to be very difficult. The loss of apprenticeships and social clubs also prevented generations of kids from getting mentoring and guidance from the elders.

People don't want to buy stuff made in the UK if it means they can buy it for half the price from China. Changing the mindset of a population so far removed from manufacturing is going to be very difficult.
I would really like to disagree with you, but you seem to have put it in a fucking nutshell.
 

Cochise

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Manufacturing was dismantled in the UK during 80's as it had been failing for decades. Whether you agree with it or not, that's why it was done. The failure to invest the money made by flogging off our nationalized industries back into the country to prevent the booms and busts was criminal though. It also caused us to have figures of 12 million unemployed.

The wealthy are more wealthy the poorer are poorer. What has changed is you have a couple of generations who have no idea what it's like to get up at 05:00 to go to work or come home at midnight after finishing a shift. The boom to force kids through university rather than a trade, (which is now looked down on), has given us a generation of kids with bits of paper with "media studies" written on it, the rise of this type of study replaced that of the sciences which at least would have been a useful qualification.

Hence the "Polish" builders and plumber stereotypes, Like the fruit pickers people came over to do jobs we no longer want to do. Changing the mindset of a population so far removed from manufacturing is going to be very difficult. The loss of apprenticeships and social clubs also prevented generations of kids from getting mentoring and guidance from the elders.

People don't want to buy stuff made in the UK if it means they can buy it for half the price from China. Changing the mindset of a population so far removed from manufacturing is going to be very difficult.
I don't think you and I often agree, but like Tuco I can't argue with what you've put. Our motorbike industry died in the 60's because it was still selling 1930's designs while the Japanese were forging ahead. Car industry died in the 80's for basically similar reasons, plus a total not necessarily unjustifed disrespect between bosses and workers. Margaret Thatcher killed our computer industry more-or-less at a stroke. I could go on but it's too depressing.

On the ecological point, the throw-away society has a lot to answer for as well. One point you could make in favour of the better British made stuff was that it would basically last for as long as you wanted provided the appropriate care was given. People stopped caring for things, they got an attitude that it should 'just work' . And then on top of that you have the apparently ceaseless demand for 'new features' most of which no-one ever uses. Indeed we have manufactures deliberately making things that can't be upgraded or which will kill themselves after a certain time limit unless you pay what amounts to a ransom.
 

Comfortably Numb

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Any else seen this coming from a mile off..

It was inevitable considering the massive drop in crime rates and absence of both neds and drunks making life miserable. From Sky News:

Coronavirus: Only 9% of Britons want life to return to 'normal' once lockdown is over

People have noticed significant changes during the lockdown, including cleaner air, more wildlife and stronger communities.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coro...turn-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-11974459
 

gordonrutter

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Any else seen this coming from a mile off..

It was inevitable considering the massive drop in crime rates and absence of both neds and drunks making life miserable. From Sky News:

Coronavirus: Only 9% of Britons want life to return to 'normal' once lockdown is over

People have noticed significant changes during the lockdown, including cleaner air, more wildlife and stronger communities.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coro...turn-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-11974459
I keep checking for families of foxes and nerds of deer walking down the roads but to be honest less fox action than normal :(
 

Mr Mischief

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Any else seen this coming from a mile off..

It was inevitable considering the massive drop in crime rates and absence of both neds and drunks making life miserable. From Sky News:

Coronavirus: Only 9% of Britons want life to return to 'normal' once lockdown is over

People have noticed significant changes during the lockdown, including cleaner air, more wildlife and stronger communities.
I was expecting some social changes but not to the extent of 91% of the population wanting it to continue. More old bill on the street was always going to result in lowering anti social behaviour and other low level crime, this is outweighed by the perpetually offended spending more time on Twatter and reporting hurt feelings. Not been out of the house myself but my mom says people are chatting in the supermarket while they queue, something which I've rarely witnessed. Once lockdown actually ends though, how many of those 91% are going to carry on with the same attitudes they had when they were limited as to what they could do?
 

Cochise

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I was expecting some social changes but not to the extent of 91% of the population wanting it to continue. More old bill on the street was always going to result in lowering anti social behaviour and other low level crime, this is outweighed by the perpetually offended spending more time on Twatter and reporting hurt feelings. Not been out of the house myself but my mom says people are chatting in the supermarket while they queue, something which I've rarely witnessed. Once lockdown actually ends though, how many of those 91% are going to carry on with the same attitudes they had when they were limited as to what they could do?
There was an absence of neds and drunks around here and next to no crime before. Plenty of weed smoked, though. Personally I can't wait until things get back to normal, but in all probability they never will.

Edit - while commercial aviation has declined, the RAF seem to be trying to make up for it - very frequent low-flying training / practice going on. Most of the planes seem to be F-15s? Are those the one with the twin tail fin?
 
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Kondoru

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I like it quieter. The village has changed. Oddly seeming more busy as everyone is out and about with purpose.

Saw a Muntjac yesterday (But he or his kin have been around some years now)

Heaven knows what will happen to my aim to get a Heritage job now.

Naughty Felid, you have a very valid point.
 

maximus otter

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Saw a Muntjac yesterday (But he or his kin have been around some years now)
When I were a lad, back in t'Seventies, DEFRA estimated that there were about 5,000 muntjac in the UK.

In 2009, the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology estimated that their population had grown to 150,000, and was increasing at about 8.2% year on year.

My calculator suggests that - if 8.2% is accurate - we now have over 285,000...

maximus otter
 

Mr Mischief

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There was an absence of neds and drunks around here and next to no crime before. Plenty of weed smoked, though. Personally I can't wait until things get back to normal, but in all probability they never will.

Edit - while commercial aviation has declined, the RAF seem to be trying to make up for it - very frequent low-flying training / practice going on. Most of the planes seem to be F-15s? Are those the one with the twin tail fin?
The only twin tail the RAF/Navy owns is the F-35, could quite easily be those as they're having to train like mad to get them ready for carrier service. USAF have also got F-15's based here and they use the Welsh valleys for low level training.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Of course people want all these things but will no one think of the profits for the poor billionaires, haven't they suffered enough?

People might want cleaner air and "more wildlife" whatever the hell that means but they won't want to be deprived of cheap holidays or cheap crap they can buy on a whim either.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Coronavirus will change nothing
The Black Death shows that after a pandemic, life goes on as before
BY BEN GUMMER


Three years ago, I chaired a meeting of COBRA, called in response to pandemic flu. It felt deadly serious, even if it was only a simulation of what would happen were flu-induced mass-mortality to come to these shores. Officials had run through the “early stages” of the epidemic, but now they wanted to expose ministers to some of the appalling choices that would have to be made as the crisis hit its peak.

It was a sobering affair. We discussed the public health measures with which we are all now familiar; the treatment of patients on intensive care; and the cold storage, burial and cremation of the bodies of the many dead.

It was a weird moment, for — as a parliamentary candidate before my first election, holed up in a cottage in Suffolk — I had written a history of the Black Death in the British Isles. I reflected then that however carefully scientists, doctors and officials planned for this event, historical experience suggested that the human reaction to pandemic disease is not always what utilitarians might expect.

Now the rehearsal has become real. We must contend with the greatest pandemic threat the world has seen for a century.


Full Article:
https://unherd.com/2020/03/coronavirus-will-change-nothing/?=refinnar
 
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Yithian

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Coronavirus will change nothing
The Black Death shows that after a pandemic, life goes on as before
BY BEN GUMMER


Three years ago, I chaired a meeting of COBRA, called in response to pandemic flu. It felt deadly serious, even if it was only a simulation of what would happen were flu-induced mass-mortality to come to these shores. Officials had run through the “early stages” of the epidemic, but now they wanted to expose ministers to some of the appalling choices that would have to be made as the crisis hit its peak.

It was a sobering affair. We discussed the public health measures with which we are all now familiar; the treatment of patients on intensive care; and the cold storage, burial and cremation of the bodies of the many dead.

It was a weird moment, for — as a parliamentary candidate before my first election, holed up in a cottage in Suffolk — I had written a history of the Black Death in the British Isles. I reflected then that however carefully scientists, doctors and officials planned for this event, historical experience suggested that the human reaction to pandemic disease is not always what utilitarians might expect.

Now the rehearsal has become real. We must contend with the greatest pandemic threat the world has seen for a century.

Full Article:
https://unherd.com/2020/03/coronavirus-will-change-nothing/?=refinnar
Please do not post bare links without comment.

Assembling other people's posts correctly is extra work for us moderators.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Please do not post bare links without comment.

Assembling other people's posts correctly is extra work for us moderators.
Sorry Yith, I was uncertain about much text from a link we are supposed to include - copyright concerns etc
 

Kondoru

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People might want cleaner air and "more wildlife" whatever the hell that means but they won't want to be deprived of cheap holidays or cheap crap they can buy on a whim either.
I think that covers it.

People have learned if they dont travel or consume, then environmental problems go away of their own accord.

And the Green Movement dont want that....
 

cycleboy2

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I think that covers it.

People have learned if they dont travel or consume, then environmental problems go away of their own accord.

And the Green Movement dont want that....
I think, Kondoru, that is exactly what the Green movement want – a move to a cleaner, greener, less-consumption-obsessed future without having to fight any entrenched political and social constructs.
 

Analogue Boy

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I think, Kondoru, that is exactly what the Green movement want – a move to a cleaner, greener, less-consumption-obsessed future without having to fight any entrenched political and social constructs.
Just a pity that most of us are miserable and living in a domestic hellscape.
I can’t see it catching on.
 

Kondoru

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You have a very valid point cycleboy, but a lot of the Green movement seem to be interested in problems and not solutions.

I read an article some years back on the problems innate in the Cotton industry (cant recall where I saw this). It was all about pollution and water consumption, not about more efficient processing with less chemicals, or less wasteful irrigation systems (or less thirsty crops) or, heaven forbid, not consuming as much cotton and using the cotton artefacts we do own for longer...
 

Ogdred Weary

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I think that covers it.

People have learned if they dont travel or consume, then environmental problems go away of their own accord.

And the Green Movement dont want that....
There are many suspect figures and organisations within the Green Movement but if you think that people "not travelling and consuming" means "environmental problems go away of their own accord" you are profoundly in error.
 

Kondoru

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Its an oversimplification. You are right there.

But, its interesting that we are noticing an immediate difference.
 

maximus otter

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Just a pity that most of us are miserable and living in a domestic hellscape.
Really? l’m not.

l’d suggest that the reduction in car travel, plus the human need for stimulation, is resulting in more people noticing wildlife. Try going for a walk in the country following these simple suggestions:

a) Wear clothing in natural colours.

b) Walk slowly, stopping frequently beside trees or hedges.

c) Keep quiet.

d) Look all around you. A pair of binoculars would be a great asset.

e) Above all, turn your ****ing phone off, and stick it in a back pocket.

- And l think you’ll find that nature is, as it always has been, all around you.

maximus otter
 

Shady

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What is a ned? I am trying to figure it out from your posts, but nope, i cant. I know they called horses neddies, is that it?
 

Yithian

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What is a ned? I am trying to figure it out from your posts, but nope, i cant. I know they called horses neddies, is that it?
ned (plural neds) (Scotland, slang, derogatory, offensive) A person, usually a youth, of low social standing and education, a violent disposition and with a particular style of dress (typically sportswear or Burberry), speech and behaviour.
 

cycleboy2

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Really? l’m not.

l’d suggest that the reduction in car travel, plus the human need for stimulation, is resulting in more people noticing wildlife. Try going for a walk in the country following these simple suggestions:

a) Wear clothing in natural colours.

b) Walk slowly, stopping frequently beside trees or hedges.

c) Keep quiet.

d) Look all around you. A pair of binoculars would be a great asset.

e) Above all, turn your ****ing phone off, and stick it in a back pocket.

- And l think you’ll find that nature is, as it always has been, all around you.

maximus otter
And Maximus, in your case f) carry a big gun!!

Like you, I'm also not in a hellscape.
 

maximus otter

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And Maximus, in your case f) carry a big gun!!

Like you, I'm also not in a hellscape.
:)

By simply obeying suggestions (a) to (e) above, I have had wildlife including deer, squirrels and hares, walk to within feet of me with total unconcern.

Conversely, I have repeatedly had to point out to other people what was going on around them, because they'd forgotten Nature's old hint about us having two ears yet only one mouth. Most recently on a walk in a local park, when two people walked towards us, phones in hands, yapping to one another, and were astonished when I pointed out to them the muntjac buck I was watching only 40 yards away from us.

maximus otter
 

Shady

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ned (plural neds) (Scotland, slang, derogatory, offensive) A person, usually a youth, of low social standing and education, a violent disposition and with a particular style of dress (typically sportswear or Burberry), speech and behaviour.
Aha thank you, so Scottish equivilant of our Chav maybe
 
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