COVID-19 (Wuhan Coronavirus): The Disease & Its Spread (Per Se)

Swifty

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I've had that 'un. Also a dental one where the needle has to go into one's nostril!
My worst felt one, though, was from a particularly sadistic nurse, taking a blood sample, when she used quite a "wide" cannula up in the 'web' between my index and second finger of my right hand.
Now that hurt!
I've only had one bad experience. I was in for an alcohol detox years ago (plus other non alcohol related complications so I ended up in A&E) ... the duty doctor clearly was keen on piss heads like me and, if I'm being honest, I don't blame him. Hospital staff have enough patients to worry about who aren't there through there own fault.

I was wheeled into a side room, an older fella doctor who looked like Richard Dawkins came in and gave me a very cross look, I was embarrassed with myself so left him to it. The first needle he put in, he rotated it while it was inside me which was extremely painful and caused me to cry out .. my entire left hand was covered in blood. I apologised to him for shouting out and he grinned then he told a nurse to clean me up who also gave me a studied filthy look and tossed some tissue on a table next to me and said "You can clean yourself up" .. so I got off the bed on wheels when they'd left and washed the blood off my hand .. I knew they were being horrible to me on purpose, a short sharp shock treatment to tell me to stop being such a dick. I could have deliberately not cleaned my hand, taken a pic of it with my phone and been a dick by reporting them when I was being wheeled up to the ward to become an inpatient but the truth is, this was mostly my own fault and the were rescuing me. Then he came back into the room and said "Sorry, there's another one I forgot" .... at this point, I'd realised I was dealing with an over worked, over tired doctor who I'm 99% sure to this day had deliberately decided to be sadistic to me but what can you do? .. other than cause a scene? .. punch him in self defence? (and then security would have wheeled me out sharpish because I was a piece of shit alcoholic/alcohol dependant) ... so the second needle went into my right arm, then out of my skin then back in again and he took my blood again that way. It didn't hurt or make such a mess this time ..

People who know, both professionals and 'seasoned' patients (which I wasn't but I am an ex NHS ward worker) will tell you that most doctors are notoriously crap at taking bloods. They have to when they have to and that's it, so anyone reading this who wants to minimise discomfort levels or is just frankly flat out terrified (fair enough) ... think of an as non disruptive way as possible to ask if a nurse can take your bloods instead if and when you're not lucky enough to get a phlebotomist doing it instead. You rarely even feel it when a phlebotomist does it.
 

Mythopoeika

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I've only had one bad experience. I was in for an alcohol detox years ago (plus other non alcohol related complications so I ended up in A&E) ... the duty doctor clearly was keen on piss heads like me and, if I'm being honest, I don't blame him. Hospital staff have enough patients to worry about who aren't there through there own fault.

I was wheeled into a side room, an older fella doctor who looked like Richard Dawkins came in and gave me a very cross look, I was embarrassed with myself so left him to it. The first needle he put in, he rotated it while it was inside me which was extremely painful and caused me to cry out .. my entire left hand was covered in blood. I apologised to him for shouting out and he grinned then he told a nurse to clean me up who also gave me a studied filthy look and tossed some tissue on a table next to me and said "You can clean yourself up" .. so I got off the bed on wheels when they'd left and washed the blood off my hand .. I knew they were being horrible to me on purpose, a short sharp shock treatment to tell me to stop being such a dick. I could have deliberately not cleaned my hand, taken a pic of it with my phone and been a dick by reporting them when I was being wheeled up to the ward to become an inpatient but the truth is, this was mostly my own fault and the were rescuing me. Then he came back into the room and said "Sorry, there's another one I forgot" .... at this point, I'd realised I was dealing with an over worked, over tired doctor who I'm 99% sure to this day had deliberately decided to be sadistic to me but what can you do? .. other than cause a scene? .. punch him in self defence? (and then security would have wheeled me out sharpish because I was a piece of shit alcoholic/alcohol dependant) ... so the second needle went into my right arm, then out of my skin then back in again and he took my blood again that way. It didn't hurt or make such a mess this time ..
They were being a bit unprofessional towards you, perhaps.

People who know, both professionals and 'seasoned' patients (which I wasn't but I am an ex NHS ward worker) will tell you that most doctors are notoriously crap at taking bloods. They have to when they have to and that's it, so anyone reading this who wants to minimise discomfort levels or is just frankly flat out terrified (fair enough) ... think of an as non disruptive way as possible to ask if a nurse can take your bloods instead if and when you're not lucky enough to get a phlebotomist doing it instead. You rarely even feel it when a phlebotomist does it.
I've had experience with even seasoned phlebotomists messing it up, usually because they can't find my vein.
 

Swifty

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They were being a bit unprofessional towards you, perhaps.



I've had experience with even seasoned phlebotomists messing it up, usually because they can't find my vein.
They were definitely unprofessional towards me IMO Mytho .. although I was the dickhead who drank too much so it's a 50/50 situation, I could have fallen when I was told to clean myself up. I wasn't drunk but as a patient, I was in their care and had received NHS sound wave treatment that was the only cause of my collapse when I'd got back home so paramedics had brought me back under those conditions only.

I've been lucky with phlebotomists and also lucky than I have bulbous veins.

I remember back when I was working on the wards 20 years ago and a young woman who was so jaundiced that her skin looked like someone had coloured it in with a fluorescent yellow marker pen because of alcohol abuse. The whites of her eyes were also yellow and she'd been diagnosed with brain damage, she couldn't speak properly, only in 'squeaking' grunts ..

I was upset because some 'professional' co workers were slagging her off out of earshot so I was tasked with washing and feeding her instead by the ward Sister. It's not our job to judge people. I used to chat to her, tell her what the weather was doing, anything to let her know that she was cared about.

People forget that NHS staff are human as well. I didn't enjoy being abused by those staff members but it can happen. And none of them, including the lapse from grace pricks who chose to hurt me should be charged for parking their car at work. They might cheer up a bit instead and good patient care could become a knock on effect. The staff are also human.
 
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Analogue Boy

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When I was getting my first cataract done, I was in the chair and the rather fetching Dr. V- - B - - -n walked in to give me my first eye injection.
Later on, I had to have another. I will never forget her thick foreign accent as she said ‘Zis will probably hurt James... but there has to be a ...villain... hasn’t there?’

I have never had a better 007 moment.*

*Apart from a Christmas do where we had an indoor funfair and I was in a tux and splattered the woman on the hammer a frog stall so hard the frog hit her and slid slowly down the side of her face and she barred me from the stall. And I did stunts on the dodgems and didn’t throw up.
 

Analogue Boy

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Here’s a Top Tip. When you’re going for a covid vaccination, go in saying ‘Name, Rank and Number‘ and then saying ‘Your Truth Serum won’t work on me ............................. You fat 5G puppet of the New World Order‘. And then start slurring ‘Icke is right. Blancmange is the way!’

Either that or drop off a stool sample sprinkled with glitter and nicely wrapped with the message ‘Happy New Year‘ on it.
 

Swifty

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Here’s a Top Tip. When you’re going for a covid vaccination, go in saying ‘Name, Rank and Number‘ and then saying ‘Your Truth Serum won’t work on me ............................. You fat 5G puppet of the New World Order‘. And then start slurring ‘Icke is right. Blancmange is the way!’

Either that or drop off a stool sample sprinkled with glitter and nicely wrapped with the message ‘Happy New Year‘ on it.
*cut.paste*
 

Mythopoeika

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Here’s a Top Tip. When you’re going for a covid vaccination, go in saying ‘Name, Rank and Number‘ and then saying ‘Your Truth Serum won’t work on me ............................. You fat 5G puppet of the New World Order‘. And then start slurring ‘Icke is right. Blancmange is the way!’

Either that or drop off a stool sample sprinkled with glitter and nicely wrapped with the message ‘Happy New Year‘ on it.
Blancmange is the way!
 

Analogue Boy

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In this lockdown, I really am going to miss the traditional New Year Bowling session. Particularly as they closed the local Bowling Centre and turned it into a Matalan. But if THEY want to up the ante, I suppose I could ram raid the shop window and take out a few mannequins.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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I've had that 'un. Also a dental one where the needle has to go into one's nostril!
My worst felt one, though, was from a particularly sadistic nurse, taking a blood sample, when she used quite a "wide" cannula up in the 'web' between my index and second finger of my right hand.
Now that hurt!
WTF? Up the nostril! I'd leg it.
 

GingerTabby

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The only needle I have felt, was one dental one in the roof of mouth that dentist warned me I'd feel.
I too have had that needle in the roof of my mouth. The pain was intense but mercifully brief. The dentist didn't warn me about it beforehand and in hindsight that was probably for the best. Had I anticipated considerable pain, I very likely would have become tense and made the situation worse.
 

EnolaGaia

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Newly published study results indicate brain damage can result from COVID-19 infections even when the brain's tissues aren't infested with the coronavirus.
NIH Researchers Uncover Brain Damage in COVID-19 Patients, Despite No Infection of the Brain

Results from a study of 19 deceased patients suggests brain damage is a byproduct of a patient’s illness.

In an in-depth study of how COVID-19 affects a patient’s brain, National Institutes of Health researchers consistently spotted hallmarks of damage caused by thinning and leaky brain blood vessels in tissue samples from patients who died shortly after contracting the disease. In addition, they saw no signs of SARS-CoV-2 in the tissue samples, suggesting the damage was not caused by a direct viral attack on the brain. The results were published as a correspondence in the New England Journal of Medicine.

“We found that the brains of patients who contract infection from SARS-CoV-2 may be susceptible to microvascular blood vessel damage. Our results suggest that this may be caused by the body’s inflammatory response to the virus” said Avindra Nath, M.D., clinical director at the NIH’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) and the senior author of the study. “We hope these results will help doctors understand the full spectrum of problems patients may suffer so that we can come up with better treatments.”

Although COVID-19 is primarily a respiratory disease, patients often experience neurological problems including headaches, delirium, cognitive dysfunction, dizziness, fatigue, and loss of the sense of smell. The disease may also cause patients to suffer strokes and other neuropathologies. Several studies have shown that the disease can cause inflammation and blood vessel damage. In one of these studies, the researchers found evidence of small amounts of SARS-CoV-2 in some patients’ brains. Nevertheless, scientists are still trying to understand how the disease affects the brain. ...
FULL STORY:
https://scitechdaily.com/nih-resear...9-patients-despite-no-infection-of-the-brain/

PUBLISHED REPORT:
“Microvascular Injury in the Brains of Patients with COVID-19”
Lee MH, Perl DP, Nair G, Li W, Maric D, Murray H, Dodd SJ, Koretsky AP, Watts JA, Cheung V, Masliah E, Horkayne-Szakaly I, Jones R, Stram MN, Moncur J, Hefti M, Folkerth RD, Nath A.
30 December 2020, New England Journal of Medicine.
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMc2033369
 

Tempest63

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To be fair, the shops around our town morphed into coffee shops, barbers, betting and charity shops well before lockdown. A few have claimed increase in rents forced general shop closure. Then I noticed ARTWORK on the windows of people inside wandering around luxurious goods. That seemed more bizarre to me than this dystopian lockdown closure.
Our town is chock a block with Estate Agents and”Property Managers”. The latest one has opened on the site of a former funeral directors...bad timing it would appear on behalf of both parties.
 

Lb8535

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Our town is chock a block with Estate Agents and”Property Managers”. The latest one has opened on the site of a former funeral directors...bad timing it would appear on behalf of both parties.
It depends. In many semi-rural or small town areas in the US, sales and prices are way up.
 

Cochise

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Newly published study results indicate brain damage can result from COVID-19 infections even when the brain's tissues aren't infested with the coronavirus.


FULL STORY:
https://scitechdaily.com/nih-resear...9-patients-despite-no-infection-of-the-brain/

PUBLISHED REPORT:
“Microvascular Injury in the Brains of Patients with COVID-19”
Lee MH, Perl DP, Nair G, Li W, Maric D, Murray H, Dodd SJ, Koretsky AP, Watts JA, Cheung V, Masliah E, Horkayne-Szakaly I, Jones R, Stram MN, Moncur J, Hefti M, Folkerth RD, Nath A.
30 December 2020, New England Journal of Medicine.
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMc2033369
To be honest that seems a bit premature. As an alert to look out for it - fine, but lacking an actual mechanism we are in the 'correlation is not causation' realm. It's a bit like 'Long Covid' - there might well be such a thing, but there needs to be evidence it's not the same as the long term effects one can get from other viral infections.

e.g.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects

edit: Of course the good thing that may come out of this is better understanding of the long term effects of viruses generally - they don't seem to have got the attention they might have, being somewhat associated with what the military used to call malingering.
 
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SketchyMagpie

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To be honest that seems a bit premature. As an alert to look out for it - fine, but lacking an actual mechanism we are in the 'correlation is not causation' realm. It's a bit like 'Long Covid' - there might well be such a thing, but there needs to be evidence it's not the same as the long term effects one can get from other viral infections.

e.g.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects
I have a friend (in America) who works as a neurologist and she's been telling me since June/July that they're seeing evidence that covid infection causes brain damage in enough patients for it to be a worry, so this news doesn't surprise me (though this won't, obviously, be the evidence you're looking for, just sharing what I've been told).
 

Cochise

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I have a friend (in America) who works as a neurologist and she's been telling me since June/July that they're seeing evidence that covid infection causes brain damage in enough patients for it to be a worry, so this news doesn't surprise me (though this won't, obviously, be the evidence you're looking for, just sharing what I've been told).
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but there has to be a mechanism - which of course may be very difficult to find. You also have to wonder what effect the general situation could be having on people's brain function, for example the long periods of isolation especially for single people.

Humans (well, all living things) are so ridiculously complicated it's enormously difficult to link cause and effect where the effects are not immediate and obvious.
 

Trevp666

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My late mother, at some point in summer '19, was unwell with a flu-like virus, not badly though, but about 2 or 3 weeks afterwards she got this blotchy, itchy red rash over about 80% of her body.
When the doc arrived to check her, she said it was a 'post viral rash', gave her some paracetamol and antihistamines and said to call her again if it hadn't cleared up by the weekend.
It did indeed clear up by the weekend.
Before that though I had never been aware of 'post viral' anything, especially rashes.
 

Min Bannister

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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but there has to be a mechanism - which of course may be very difficult to find. You also have to wonder what effect the general situation could be having on people's brain function, for example the long periods of isolation especially for single people.

Humans (well, all living things) are so ridiculously complicated it's enormously difficult to link cause and effect where the effects are not immediate and obvious.
It's not too difficult. A long period of reduced oxygen to the brain causes damage, this is already known. They are just arguing about the exact mechanism.
More here.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-reveals-oxygen-brain.html
 

Cochise

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It's not too difficult. A long period of reduced oxygen to the brain causes damage, this is already known. They are just arguing about the exact mechanism.
More here.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-reveals-oxygen-brain.html
The point being, of course, that oxygen deprivation is not specific to Covid-19, which is why it is important to get treatment if you are having severe difficulty in breathing. It almost seems like everything is being rediscovered from scratch because Covid-19.

Presumably most doctors know that reduction of oxygen to the brain can cause damage so why would it need a paper regarding Covid-19 which we have known since at least February causes a reduction of oxygen in the bloodstream and hence the brain.

I assume the paper is trying to suggest something else, otherwise it would seem entirely superfluous.
 

EnolaGaia

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The research most recently cited only concerns brain damage where there's no evidence of direct coronavirus infection of the brain tissue. It's not referring to brain damage from O2 deprivation, but rather damage clearly attributable to blood vessel deterioration (another COVID outcome that's long been established).

Earlier published research had already established that the virus can attack / infect nerve and brain tissues directly, as well as indicating the infection path led from the nasal cavity.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but there has to be a mechanism - which of course may be very difficult to find. You also have to wonder what effect the general situation could be having on people's brain function, for example the long periods of isolation especially for single people.

Humans (well, all living things) are so ridiculously complicated it's enormously difficult to link cause and effect where the effects are not immediate and obvious.
I dunno science but in the summer, my GP diagnosed me with "post covid syndrome". I actually picked him up on it (or rather, thought I'd make him clarify) and said "Do you mean post viral syndrome". He just looked me right in the eye and said, very emphatically "No, 'Post covid syndrome'". Not sure if it's his field or not - certainly of all the GPs I had phone consults with, (and saw this one once, in person), - he was the only one who seemed interested in covid to the point he'd done a bit of reading round it.

But FWIW, drs - well, one dr - thinks there's a distinction.

In other news, kind of related, I saw a piece the other day that trumpeted the scientists had found a new long covid symptom. Hair loss. We've been saying this for more than six months, people with long covid... Totally ignored, then suddenly it's canonical.

There is some crossover, from the little I have read, between this and any post viral syndrome, but I think some of the stuff like forgetting words, your hair falling out like you've been in a nuclear war, and continuance of shortness of breath, is covid-specific. Especially the shortness of breath. It is like nothing else. Jury's still out on why we're experiencing it.

Re. military malingering, my great uncle was frog-marched to St James Hospital, in Leeds, when home on leave from the trenches in 1917. He was bright yellow from the mustard gas. He didn't want to go to the medics but family took one look at him and dragged him there. (He was a corporal). He was promptly told off for "malingering" and "making things up" and "trying to get out of the front line" (not true, his brother told me he totally didn't want to even go to the drs). At the end of that leave he went back to the trenches (passing through Etaples at the precise time of the mutiny) and died the following month at Passchendaele. What a malingerer!
 

Ghost In The Machine

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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but there has to be a mechanism - which of course may be very difficult to find. You also have to wonder what effect the general situation could be having on people's brain function, for example the long periods of isolation especially for single people.

Humans (well, all living things) are so ridiculously complicated it's enormously difficult to link cause and effect where the effects are not immediate and obvious.
No, sadly, I am surrounded by family and work with words for a living. Some very simple ones and things like names of people I've known for, oh, 50 years - drop out of my mind, now. No family history whatsoever of dementia, btw, and was experiencing this only several months after covid - at first thought it was just tiredness, etc. Then started to read others' accounts of identical experience. There is a mechanism, btw and it is already known - this thing isn't just in the lungs, or upper respiratory tract but is vascular which means it can hightail it to any part of your body whatsoever. Brain being one favourite destination. It's already understood, that bit.

Discussion I've seen of this in newspapers, scientific papers etc, seem to make it sound like the neuro damage is from fairly early on. And it is - in terms of loss of sense of smell and taste (my GP said those are markers of neuro damage). But for me the forgetting words didn't start til months AFTER covid, showing something is going on, long after you're "recovered". This seems to be a common experience for folk with long covid.

Bear in mind most of us with long covid had a mild initial illness, and weren't even hospitalised. I'm guessing the 30% asymptomatic won't be at risk of this, as much, because their bodies did a better job of fighting it off in the first place, and/or they had a lower initial viral load.

Fun fact about the new variant - it seems to be giving people a higher viral load as the protein spike in the virus is "stickier"... I notice this is being played down at the moment. But it doesn't take Einstein to figure out the possible consequences.
 

Cochise

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No, sadly, I am surrounded by family and work with words for a living. Some very simple ones and things like names of people I've known for, oh, 50 years - drop out of my mind, now. No family history whatsoever of dementia, btw, and was experiencing this only several months after covid - at first thought it was just tiredness, etc. Then started to read others' accounts of identical experience. There is a mechanism, btw and it is already known - this thing isn't just in the lungs, or upper respiratory tract but is vascular which means it can hightail it to any part of your body whatsoever. Brain being one favourite destination. It's already understood, that bit.

Discussion I've seen of this in newspapers, scientific papers etc, seem to make it sound like the neuro damage is from fairly early on. And it is - in terms of loss of sense of smell and taste (my GP said those are markers of neuro damage). But for me the forgetting words didn't start til months AFTER covid, showing something is going on, long after you're "recovered". This seems to be a common experience for folk with long covid.

Bear in mind most of us with long covid had a mild initial illness, and weren't even hospitalised. I'm guessing the 30% asymptomatic won't be at risk of this, as much, because their bodies did a better job of fighting it off in the first place, and/or they had a lower initial viral load.

Fun fact about the new variant - it seems to be giving people a higher viral load as the protein spike in the virus is "stickier"... I notice this is being played down at the moment. But it doesn't take Einstein to figure out the possible consequences.
To be honest, I suspect I had it in March - there are reasons why it didn't seem like a normal cold/chill. My sense of smell is rubbish anyway so probably wouldn't notice anything there.

You've worried me a bit because I've been finding it hard to recall some words in conversation - not problems when writing. Been going on for three or four months. but also could be to do with the health problems I had back in the summer. Or getting old. Or becoming hypochondriac through isolation.

It is going to take a long time for the experts to work out exactly what is going on, and I tend to be a bit obsessed with logic rather than the human side of things - 40 odd years of working with programs and data can do that to you I guess.
 

Lb8535

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No, sadly, I am surrounded by family and work with words for a living. Some very simple ones and things like names of people I've known for, oh, 50 years - drop out of my mind, now. No family history whatsoever of dementia, btw, and was experiencing this only several months after covid - at first thought it was just tiredness, etc. Then started to read others' accounts of identical experience. There is a mechanism, btw and it is already known - this thing isn't just in the lungs, or upper respiratory tract but is vascular which means it can hightail it to any part of your body whatsoever. Brain being one favourite destination. It's already understood, that bit.

Discussion I've seen of this in newspapers, scientific papers etc, seem to make it sound like the neuro damage is from fairly early on. And it is - in terms of loss of sense of smell and taste (my GP said those are markers of neuro damage). But for me the forgetting words didn't start til months AFTER covid, showing something is going on, long after you're "recovered". This seems to be a common experience for folk with long covid.

Bear in mind most of us with long covid had a mild initial illness, and weren't even hospitalised. I'm guessing the 30% asymptomatic won't be at risk of this, as much, because their bodies did a better job of fighting it off in the first place, and/or they had a lower initial viral load.

Fun fact about the new variant - it seems to be giving people a higher viral load as the protein spike in the virus is "stickier"... I notice this is being played down at the moment. But it doesn't take Einstein to figure out the possible consequences.
At my age I notice and worry about memory loss- specifically the nouns and names of things go and come back. This kind of memory loss can also be caused by persistent lack of sleep and persistent anxiety. Both of course can stem from being ill or in the pandemic.
 

Mythopoeika

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Really grim for U.S. January 1, 2021

A milestone of 20 million positive tests.

Fauci claims the worst dark days yet to come.
Not all of those will be deaths, but yes - it's bad.
 
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