Cows

[brownmane]

I just thought that I would post this link about aggression in cattle. Some breeds are more aggressive than others, as well as cattle raised for beef vs dairy production have differing levels of aggression. And a single animal can just simply have an aggressive personality.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression_in_cattle

I grew up with holstein dairy cattle, they are general a more gentle breed, but I knew which ones to be more leery of. After reading the wiki article, I was surprised that cows can be more aggressive than bulls, though the explanation makes sense. We didn't have bulls on the farm, but they are so huge that I was afraid of any bull.

Cattle will be more aggressive (not sure if this is the correct word) when they become familiar with people, and sometimes will unintentionally hurt them. I'm sure that that is part of the issue they are facing in India.

 

[ramonmercado]

The cow should be in the dock.

A farming company is to face a trial after a primary school teacher was killed by a cow.

Marian Clode was flipped over a fence as she walked along a path during a family break in Northumberland in 2016. The 61-year-old, of Greater Manchester, had been staying at a holiday cottage at Swinhoe Farm, near Belford.

On Friday at Newcastle Crown Court, JM Nixon and Son denied failing to ensure the health and safety of persons other than employees.

It is alleged it failed to make sure people were not exposed to risks from the movement of cattle. A trial, which could last about eight days, has been listed to start in November.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-63842275

 

[RaM]

Cows strike again.

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...s-going-to-die-when-she-was-attacked-by-a-cow

 

[brownmane]

Cows strike again.

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...s-going-to-die-when-she-was-attacked-by-a-cow

Personally, I don't understand why people walk through cattle pastures. Here, we certainly don't. It is someone's farm and unless you know the owner, you wouldn't. Good grief, some farms have bison. Would anyone walk through those fields? Nope. The fences for them are at least ten feet high.

Maybe signs "beware of cattle" should be used. People seem to be ignorant of the fact that animals can be spooked by anything and that some cattle are just nasty. I would never just nonchalantly walk through any field that I don't know. Any field I have ever cut across, as a kid walking the back way (ie not following the roads) to my gma's, I knew they were my uncle's crop fields. Even then, if the corn was high, I was constantly aware that machinery could be running and I would not be seen, so I got to the fence area asap. I never actually did this when I knew people were combining because you can't be seen nor heard.

 

[RaM]

Many fields have public rights of way across and if you get someone who doesn't see
cows as a threat especially if they have a dog with them the people not the cows then
things can get a bit dangerous, I had horses and have been in lots of fields with cows
and the only problem I have had was one gave me a nuge trying to see what I was doing
I looked round and about 6 of them were behind me didn't know they were there but
they were just being nosey. If they seemed agitated then I would not go in but get
someone intent on exercising there right of way no matter what then who knows.

 

[brownmane]

Many fields have public rights of way across and if you get someone who doesn't see
cows as a threat especially if they have a dog with them the people not the cows then
things can get a bit dangerous, I had horses and have been in lots of fields with cows
and the only problem I have had was one gave me a nuge trying to see what I was doing
I looked round and about 6 of them were behind me didn't know they were there but
they were just being nosey. If they seemed agitated then I would not go in but get
someone intent on exercising there right of way no matter what then who knows.

And having a dog can make it worse.

 

[ramonmercado]

Who is killing the cows?

Investigators have been left baffled after dozens of cows have been killed in gruesome ways with some reported to have missing tails and vicious bite marks.

The bovine killings have happened in the White River National Forest area in Colorado with so far around 40 animals having been killed.

Park rangers initially thought wolves might be responsible, but now they're not so sure.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife region manager Travis Black says teams have found no evidence that wolves were responsible, reports the Express.

“It’s perplexing,” Black said. “We’re scratching our heads a little bit. We don’t know exactly what has occurred up there.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/dozens-cows-mysteriously-killed-bite-28643978

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Many fields have public rights of way across and if you get someone who doesn't see
cows as a threat especially if they have a dog with them the people not the cows then
things can get a bit dangerous, I had horses and have been in lots of fields with cows
and the only problem I have had was one gave me a nuge trying to see what I was doing
I looked round and about 6 of them were behind me didn't know they were there but
they were just being nosey. If they seemed agitated then I would not go in but get
someone intent on exercising there right of way no matter what then who knows.

I am in the US, so forgive me if this is obvious to UKers: why do private lands have public access? Are these shortcuts to towns or bus stops? What is the rationale? Is it because so little public land, as forests and meadows, is available to the public to enjoy for walks that privately-owned pasturage is the substitute?

In the US, private land is only available to non-owners by permission. Public lands, owned by the Federal government, state, county, tribal lands, etc., all have different types of access permissions; but most is open to the public almost everywhere. The main exceptions to this are sites for archeology, endangered species reintroduction, dangerous areas like volcanoes, mining, some fragile watersheds, and active timbering.

Here, for public lands which are leased to private entities for grazing livestock, a stranger still has access because it is fundamentally public land. However, I would still be very cautious about being on foot in an area with cattle nearby. I have written several times about my adventures with cows (fucking bastards!): accidentally causing a stampede at night, being threatened by a bison-cow hybrid on a road, etc.

In the US west, cattle are essentially wild or feral animals having contact with the ranchers once or twice a year. The grazing area is huge; sometimes tens of thousands of acres for a single ranch.

 

[Lb8535]

I am in the US, so forgive me if this is obvious to UKers: why do private lands have public access? Are these shortcuts to towns or bus stops? What is the rationale? Is it because so little public land, as forests and meadows, is available to the public to enjoy for walks that privately-owned pasturage is the substitute?

In the US, private land is only available to non-owners by permission. Public lands, owned by the Federal government, state, county, tribal lands, etc., all have different types of access permissions; but most is open to the public almost everywhere. The main exceptions to this are sites for archeology, endangered species reintroduction, dangerous areas like volcanoes, mining, some fragile watersheds, and active timbering.

Here, for public lands which are leased to private entities for grazing livestock, a stranger still has access because it is fundamentally public land. However, I would still be very cautious about being on foot in an area with cattle nearby. I have written several times about my adventures with cows (fucking bastards!): accidentally causing a stampede at night, being threatened by a bison-cow hybrid on a road, etc.

In the US west, cattle are essentially wild or feral animals having contact with the ranchers once or twice a year. The grazing area is huge; sometimes tens of thousands of acres for a single ranch.

Oh dear EA they're going to reply and talk about the ancient rights-of-way. Footpaths dating back to the conquest that can't be blocked off. Violence, lawsuits, fodder for British TV dramas.

 

[brownmane]

Oh dear EA they're going to reply and talk about the ancient rights-of-way. Footpaths dating back to the conquest that can't be blocked off. Violence, lawsuits, fodder for British TV dramas.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Oh dear EA they're going to reply and talk about the ancient rights-of-way. Footpaths dating back to the conquest that can't be blocked off. Violence, lawsuits, fodder for British TV dramas.

?!? WTF? So these are on private property, frequently used as pasturage for livestock, like 1000+ pound cows?!? Where do these paths go? to a store or bus stop or something useful? Why are people walking on these, rightful or not, if the paths are on land containing cows...

Does anyone in the UK think that these paths are cow-free? I find it hard to even compose sentences which do not come across as sarcastic or judgemental. It is not my intention to be anything other than respectful, but I can't figure out why people deliberately are walking in a clear danger. Still waiting for a UKer to tell me so I can know.

Even if these walkers have legal access, under law do they have legal recourse to sue for damages after they are trampled by a cow in a field owned by a farmer?

@brownmane, I will see your hysterical laughter, and raise you.

 

[hunck]

It may sound strange to US folks but in the UK we have public footpaths on which public have a lawful right of way. These are long established & can be hundreds & even thousands of years old, originally linking settlements/villages/churches/schools or trading routes. The Ridgeway for example is a long distance path several thousand years old starting or ending at Avebury & there are others like this. They sometimes cross farmland & can actually pass through the middle of farm buildings. It’s down to walkers to take care & watch out for animals. Dogs should be kept on a lead in these circumstances. Right of way was officially established by law in 1949 & public footpaths are shown on Ordnance Survey maps.

I’ve walked through fields containing cows scores of times & have never been bothered by them. Cows don’t like dogs though & most tramplings seem to happen to people walking dogs.

I doubt those trampled by cows could sue farmers as you use them at your own risk. I’m no legal expert though.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

It may sound strange to US folks but in the UK we have public footpaths on which public have a lawful right of way. These are long established & can be hundreds & even thousands of years old, originally linking settlements/villages/churches/schools or trading routes. The Ridgeway for example is a long distance path several thousand years old starting or ending at Avebury & there are others like this. They sometimes cross farmland & can actually pass through the middle of farm buildings. It’s down to walkers to take care & watch out for animals. Dogs should be kept on a lead in these circumstances. Right of way was officially established by law in 1949 & public footpaths are shown on Ordnance Survey maps.

I’ve walked through fields containing cows scores of times & have never been bothered by them. Cows don’t like dogs though & most tramplings seem to happen to people walking dogs.

I doubt those trampled by cows could sue farmers as you use them at your own risk. I’m no legal expert though.

@hunck, thank you. This all sounds really weird to me, an American. Are the walkers just out and enjoying fresh air and nature, or are they going somewhere specific, like a store?

I personally would never go into a field with strange cattle while having a dog with me, even well-trained and leashed. Here, free range beef cattle are quite feral and can do immense damage in the blink of an eye. I once watched a small group of cows defend their calves against a pack of coyotes. They pushed the calves in the middle and circled the calves, facing outward to the predators. One predator got too close and was stomped by a cow. Within seconds, all the other cows joined in and the coyote was dead and turned into flat mush in about 10 seconds.

 

[brownmane]

@hunck, thank you. This all sounds really weird to me, an American. Are the walkers just out and enjoying fresh air and nature, or are they going somewhere specific, like a store?

I personally would never go into a field with strange cattle while having a dog with me, even well-trained and leashed. Here, free range beef cattle are quite feral and can do immense damage in the blink of an eye. I once watched a small group of cows defend their calves against a pack of coyotes. They pushed the calves in the middle and circled the calves, facing outward to the predators. One predator got too close and was stomped by a cow. Within seconds, all the other cows joined in and the coyote was dead and turned into flat mush in about 10 seconds.

As far as I understand (being Canadian, and not knowing anyone personally from UK), yes people use them for hiking. Again, afaik, these right of ways are in the countryside. People in general are ignorant of animals and, for some reason, think that no domesticated animal can be a danger.

 

[maximus otter]

As far as I understand (being Canadian, and not knowing anyone personally from UK), yes people use them for hiking. Again, afaik, these right of ways are in the countryside. People in general are ignorant of animals and, for some reason, think that no domesticated animal can be a danger.

The situation is complicated and mostly governed by civil law, about which l know even less than criminal law (!). There is a guide here.

Here in the UK, being a small, overcrowded country, we tend to walk to a destination - work, the shops etc. - more often than those in the north American landmass.

Over the centuries, networks of public footpaths and bridlepaths have grown up, and their use of them is now enshrined in Common Law.

lt is common to find that a farmer’s land will have an ancient footpath running across it ( my wife walks to work across a meadow containing cows every day. )

The government’s official guidance to cattle owners regarding safety of the public is here.

maximus otter

 

[hunck]

@hunck, thank you. This all sounds really weird to me, an American. Are the walkers just out and enjoying fresh air and nature, or are they going somewhere specific, like a store?

I personally would never go into a field with strange cattle while having a dog with me, even well-trained and leashed. Here, free range beef cattle are quite feral and can do immense damage in the blink of an eye. I once watched a small group of cows defend their calves against a pack of coyotes. They pushed the calves in the middle and circled the calves, facing outward to the predators. One predator got too close and was stomped by a cow. Within seconds, all the other cows joined in and the coyote was dead and turned into flat mush in about 10 seconds.

Generally just walking for pleasure/fresh air/exercise/enjoyment of countryside. If there's a pub en route, even better. We're weird like that - there’s a Ramblers Association for enthusiasts. No law against walking to shops though!

Having read about cow tramplings mainly on here I wouldn’t take a dog through a field of cows either & definitely not if there’s calves - as you've said they're very protective. Most public footpaths will stick to field edges.

Unlike the US we don’t have dangerous/hazardous wild animals - cows are probably top of the list. You're unlikely to get mauled by sheep.

 

[ramonmercado]

You're unlikely to get mauled by sheep.

 

[hunck]

Chortle. I’m not sure where that is but they’re driving on the right. British sheep are much more well-behaved.

 

[Tigerhawk]

Undine‏@HorribleSanity
If any of you are writing a murder mystery novel, may I recommend "Licked to death by cows?" (Carlisle Sentinel, 1902)

9:50 PM - 18 Jan 2018

Sounds like a plot from Midsomer Murders....

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Sounds like a plot from Midsomer Murders....

LOL - I just watched Midsomer Murders yesterday, 'The Killings At Badger's Drift'. It was really good!

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

The situation is complicated and mostly governed by civil law, about which l know even less than criminal law (!). There is a guide here.

Here in the UK, being a small, overcrowded country, we tend to walk to a destination - work, the shops etc. - more often than those in the north American landmass.

Over the centuries, networks of public footpaths and bridlepaths have grown up, and their use of them is now enshrined in Common Law.

lt is common to find that a farmer’s land will have an ancient footpath running across it ( my wife walks to work across a meadow containing cows every day. )

The government’s official guidance to cattle owners regarding safety of the public is here.

maximus otter

Thank you for the very helpful links! You guys live in a different country

Americans who live in cities walk to most destinations because parking for cars is scarce and expensive. (The condo I rented near WDC sold individual parking spaces for $35,000 10 years ago.) People who live in suburbs I suspect walk the least.

The idea that private land is by law accessible to the general public is going to take some thought by me before I find it ...acceptable? believable?

Your system seems to work find most of the time, which is probably as much as one can hope for. I think anytime one moves in proximity to cattle, one has some level of risk because the animal's behavior is never completely predictable. Paradoxically, I think that since your country has long-standing traditions of people taking walks through cattle pastures, some people will unconsciously assume it is safe because people have been doing it for a long time.

...When I was a child, growing up in a densely populated neighborhood, my aunts would take me to visit neighbors a few blocks away. We would cut through other people's front and back yards to shorten the journey. I was always told to hurry up and be silent to not disturb the people who lived there. I suspect that this neighborhood tradition no longer exists.

 

[maximus otter]

Cows can also be a force for good:

On the moove: Police helicopter captures moment cows herd man on the run

A suspect attempted to flee Devon police from the scene after an alleged crime but was later stopped by a herd of cows.

The black-and-white thermal imaging shows the man slowly walking as the pack of cows follows behind him through the field.

National Police Air Service tweeted the video on 6 December with the words: "Watch the moment a man on the run from Devon and Cornwall Police was herded up by a group of cows in Devon and mooved out of their field into the arms of waiting police officers."

"However we did have to remind the cows not to take the law into their own hoofs."

In the footage, the man is then caught by Devon and Cornwall Police.

https://news.sky.com/story/on-the-m...ures-moment-cows-herd-man-on-the-run-12763425

maximus otter

 

[brownmane]

What an idiot. He's lucky it's not a big ram. Again, people really have no respect for animals. The sheep obviously felt threatened by the bike and then other people decide that it is better not to give it space.

Ever had a goose or swan attack? I would not be one to stand around giving it a second shot. Any animal is dangerous when threatened.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

What an idiot. He's lucky it's not a big ram. Again, people really have no respect for animals. The sheep obviously felt threatened by the bike and then other people decide that it is better not to give it space.

Ever had a goose or swan attack? I would not be one to stand around giving it a second shot. Any animal is dangerous when threatened.

I so agree - even approaching a little cat I put my hand out first, palm up, for them to smell and decide if they will allow me to approach them or not. So important to have respect for animals.

 

[Floyd1]

@hunck, thank you. This all sounds really weird to me, an American. Are the walkers just out and enjoying fresh air and nature, or are they going somewhere specific, like a store?

Where I live there are hundreds of paths across fields in just a small area. Some clearly signed, others not so much.

Sometimes the farmer has planted crops and left a gap where the path goes (or should have done anyway).

In my case here, they aren't used to get somewhere as such, but purely for exercise, and by ramblers and/or dog walkers.
A lot of them are not much use; maybe they only cut the corner through a field for a short distance and then you're back to a main road for a while before another path goes off again, others go on for miles and you can do a good circuit if you wish, often incorporating canal-side paths and disused railway lines as well (most are overgrown here or have been converted back to fields, but where I grew up they have been turned into places for walkers and cyclists).

There is even a public right of way through the golf-club here (hence my growing collection of golf balls which I intend to sell back to them at a later date).

Most of the people who use these paths are very responsible sorts that don't leave litter or leave gates open etc so the farmers don't mind too much. I haven't been chased by a farmer since I was younger and I walk miles and miles on these paths and bridleways.

 

[ChasFink]

@Endlessly Amazed -
Respectfully, I think you need to look beyond your own neighborhood. While not exceptionally common, various types of easements (right of way on private land) do exist in the U.S. - they can be granted to certain people, like neighbors, or to the public.

Sometimes they have restrictions: there wes a case recently where a landowner had an agreement with (IIRC) the parks department to use his road only for tree maintenance, but they posted it as a public road.

In New York City, there is also the concept of privately owned public space: companies are allowed to build in a certain area with the proviso that some of that space, usually the lobby, is open to the public as if it were public land.

As for cows, I remember my college summer abroad in Poland. We had a couple of days rest in the mountainous resort town of Zakopane. The route down from our hotel to town passed a tiny field with a few animals in it, including a bull. They were all quite friendly and did not mind interacting with passers-by.

 

[Floyd1]

@Endlessly Amazed

As an aside, we have 'rambling clubs', usually retired folk, some of whom live alone, who meet up once a week and go out walking these paths for a day. It's a great way for people to get out and meet others, (especially if their husband or wife has died), and they are feeling depressed sat at home. Also, as in my town, they report any problems such as where signs have fallen down, stiles need fixing or paths need clearing etc. I suppose as the years go by a lot of these 'rights of way' will be forgotten as less and less people walk them. Even now, quite a few that I walk only seem to be used by me.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

@ChasFink - yes, I would love to get out more. Also, I am the first to admit that what I don't know is endless. I don't know of any place in the US where privately owned pasturage for cows is available by law to strangers to take a walk. I do know about some easements for access to another private property for the owners of that second property, but never for strangers just out to take a walk. Also, the Rockefeller easement in NYC, blocked once a year to retain ownership.

Are you on the east coast? Do the states there have British-style rambling easement laws? So much of US traditions are based in state laws, and the British, Spanish, French, Dutch traditions of the settlers.

I am afraid of cows and try to stay away from them. I once accidentally caused a stampede at night and thought I would be killed.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

@Endlessly Amazed

As an aside, we have 'rambling clubs', usually retired folk, some of whom live alone, who meet up once a week and go out walking these paths for a day. It's a great way for people to get out and meet others, (especially if their husband or wife has died), and they are feeling depressed sat at home. Also, as in my town, they report any problems such as where signs have fallen down, stiles need fixing or paths need clearing etc. I suppose as the years go by a lot of these 'rights of way' will be forgotten as less and less people walk them. Even now, quite a few that I walk only seem to be used by me.

@Floyd1 - those rambling clubs sound wonderful. As does living in a green, verdant landscape. I currently live in the desert, which is beautiful; but I do miss trees and grass.

How does someone find the local rambling club where you live?

 

[ChasFink]

Are you on the east coast? Do the states there have British-style rambling easement laws?

I'm on Long Island, too close to city life to know about public easements on cow pastures. I'm inclined to think, though, that anywhere population is spread out and private lands are large there must be some public roads on otherwise private land. There was another case where two parcels of private land met two parcels of public land in a four-corners situation. I believe the courts ruled that people had the right to step from one piece of public land to the other, even though it meant technically occupying the airspace of the private land.