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Cruelty To Animals / Animal Cruelty

Ghost In The Machine

Justified & Ancient
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Mar 17, 2014
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Yorkshire
Male neighbour found guilty earlier this week (we'd recorded through the walls over a period of 5 weeks, the dog yelping/being shouted at/hit by him and his wife). She got a Not Guilty - case was moved to another court at the very last minute. Our local one was set up for the tech side of it but this court refused to listen using headphones - so they couldn't catch all the audio. I'm not sure they even played the section where he said "Belt him", talking to wife whose voice we could also hear - then there's a second silence, then the dog yelped - which to me was suggestive of her doing the beating. (I had seen an incident outside, with a previous dog, initiated by her - grabbing it from a car boot and throwing it on a concrete drive....). Only evidence they could hear was re. this, their 3rd dog in 6 years.

Also not helped by the fact prosecution lawyer/solicitor got covid a few days earlier - he knew the case backwards but had to hand it to someone from another firm right at the last minute...

New lawyer was good but not fully on top of what happened where in each recording.

I gave evidence for about 50 mins, apparently. It was easily one of the worst experiences of my life and I've given evidence for much longer in the stand, twice before.

She claims she owned the dog not him so they might even get it back. Police are now trying to find a way to block this.

Their lawyer looked like he slept under a bridge. He was a vicious bastard - but he kept coming up with a defence that was so weird I got feisty and fought him tooth and claw. I wouldn't answer any of his yes and no closed questions with a yes or no but pretended I was a politician and answered saying whatever it was I wanted to shoehorn in. I'd have behaved myself if the judge started to glare at me but - he just let me, so I went for it. (Magistrates' court but we got a proper judge which was a relief). I think I nearly made the defence lawyer cry! He got so frustrated with me. Judge shut him down a couple of times, but didn't shut me down. So I think he may have been an animal lover.
 

Vardoger

Make mine a 99
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Valaskjalf (Ex. pat.)

Tunn11

Justified & Ancient
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Under the highest tree top in Kent
Is there a marketing opportunity here? Zouma cat toys?
 

Sid

Justified & Ancient
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Nov 19, 2018
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Looks like he thought the cat kicking video would be cool to publish. I wonder what made him think that.
Heard on the news tonight that it was his brother who had taken the video - but both must have thought that this was funny enough to put it out there.
Really, r-e-a-l-l-y dumb and stupid cruel attitude, and act.

Two weeks pay is just a slap on the wrist for such distasteful stupidity.
:(
 

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
7,815
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Wessex and Mercia
Another sponsor - Florida marketing organisation Experience Kissimmee, has ditched West Ham over the cat cruelty.

I suspect Zouma's days as a premiership footballer are numbered.
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
8,016
Don't you think this is all a bit over the top, after all it was a cat. Now if it had been a puppy - hang him. (joking, OK?)
 

hunck

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Jul 13, 2011
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8,133
Location
Hobbs End

Arizona man froze nearly 200 animals in garage freezer

An Arizona man faces animal cruelty charges after 183 dead dogs, rabbits, birds and other animals were found in a freezer, including some that were apparently frozen while alive, officials said.
Mohave county deputies and animal control officers found the animals in a garage freezer on 3 April after a woman reported that Michael Patrick Turland, 43, hadn’t returned snakes she’d lent him for breeding, the sheriff’s office said Thursday in a statement. The freezer was at a home that Turland previously rented in Golden Valley, a rural community in far western Arizona.

The frozen animals included dogs, turtles, lizards, birds, snakes, mice, rats and rabbits, the statement said. “Several of the animals appeared to have been frozen alive due to their body positioning.” The sheriff’s office said they were kept in a “large-sized chest freezer”.

Turland was arrested at the home Wednesday when deputies were told he had returned to the property, the office said.

“When interviewed, Turland eventually admitted to placing some of the animals in the freezer when they were still alive,” the statement said.
Court records didn’t list an attorney who could comment on behalf of Turland, who was arrested on 94 counts of animal cruelty.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Yorkshire
Update - so far, no new dog has appeared and the police managed to persuade the neighbours to let the dog be kept by its fosterers. He has a great life and the RSPCA's brilliant lawyer worked to make sure he came out of kennels after the first year and was fostered. He is used at a local college where people do dog training courses and he is a big favourite of the students. I'm told he is happy and has a lovely life. So I achieved something.

Technically, they could have had it back even though he was in the house and has a 4 year ban from owning a dog - as she could say she owned it. (There's a loophole in the law that I've never seen mentioned).

Local newspaper ran a very brief story (wonder who tipped them off?:)) Gave neighbour's address. Anyone finding that can search online and find their photos. Hopefully this will make their lives hell but that's nothing upto what that little dog went through.

Some local FB groups (one with 25,000 members) have run with the story and others - like this village and the next village's cosy little FB groups - refused to, which means she could go out and buy another puppy tomorrow, locally. TI'm told this is often a problem with local FB groups not wanting their area associated with crims, so they mod any posts about things like animal cruelty even though local newspapers publish photos, names, dobs, even addresses.

What made me laugh was the number of people on various threads where the links to the story did go up, threatening to bash neighbour in face with a bit of wood, or "what I'd do if I was left alone with him" etc etc but the only posts FB has taken down are the ones that describe neighbour as unusually ugly! (Like you can threaten someone but not say they look repulsive - not that I'm surprised - it's FB). Anyway, a few tens of thousands of people have seen my neighbours' photos and if they try to buy a puppy, hopefully, someone will recognise them.

Bad news is she worked in an old folks' home and so could perfectly well go back to a job where she's left alone with the vulnerable elderly.

We heard that a few days before the case, he offered to plead Guilty if she was let off, so we guess this is so she can get a DBS and continue working. The old folks' home that "let go" of her in the village are desperate for employees and will believe her line that he did all the abuse when she was out at work (yet in the recordings submitted to court and therefore authenticated, her voice is on all of them). During all this, another reliable source told us the social services dropped them as a case, and declared them to be a "normal", happy family. Another witness told me that the male neighbour boasted to them that he had social workers onside and doing his bidding.

No sentence, not even a suspended one but one of the largest if not the largest, fine I've seen. He is disqualified from owning a dog for a few years but she isn't.
 

Endlessly Amazed

Endlessly, you know, amazed
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Messages
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Location
Arizona, USA
Update - so far, no new dog has appeared and the police managed to persuade the neighbours to let the dog be kept by its fosterers. He has a great life and the RSPCA's brilliant lawyer worked to make sure he came out of kennels after the first year and was fostered. He is used at a local college where people do dog training courses and he is a big favourite of the students. I'm told he is happy and has a lovely life. So I achieved something.

Technically, they could have had it back even though he was in the house and has a 4 year ban from owning a dog - as she could say she owned it. (There's a loophole in the law that I've never seen mentioned).

Local newspaper ran a very brief story (wonder who tipped them off?:)) Gave neighbour's address. Anyone finding that can search online and find their photos. Hopefully this will make their lives hell but that's nothing upto what that little dog went through.

Some local FB groups (one with 25,000 members) have run with the story and others - like this village and the next village's cosy little FB groups - refused to, which means she could go out and buy another puppy tomorrow, locally. TI'm told this is often a problem with local FB groups not wanting their area associated with crims, so they mod any posts about things like animal cruelty even though local newspapers publish photos, names, dobs, even addresses.

What made me laugh was the number of people on various threads where the links to the story did go up, threatening to bash neighbour in face with a bit of wood, or "what I'd do if I was left alone with him" etc etc but the only posts FB has taken down are the ones that describe neighbour as unusually ugly! (Like you can threaten someone but not say they look repulsive - not that I'm surprised - it's FB). Anyway, a few tens of thousands of people have seen my neighbours' photos and if they try to buy a puppy, hopefully, someone will recognise them.

Bad news is she worked in an old folks' home and so could perfectly well go back to a job where she's left alone with the vulnerable elderly.

We heard that a few days before the case, he offered to plead Guilty if she was let off, so we guess this is so she can get a DBS and continue working. The old folks' home that "let go" of her in the village are desperate for employees and will believe her line that he did all the abuse when she was out at work (yet in the recordings submitted to court and therefore authenticated, her voice is on all of them). During all this, another reliable source told us the social services dropped them as a case, and declared them to be a "normal", happy family. Another witness told me that the male neighbour boasted to them that he had social workers onside and doing his bidding.

No sentence, not even a suspended one but one of the largest if not the largest, fine I've seen. He is disqualified from owning a dog for a few years but she isn't.

I think it was admirable for you to make such efforts about this. Publicly antagonizing, by testifying, someone who is abusive can be stressful and somewhat risky. And they are your neighbors!
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Yorkshire
I think it was admirable for you to make such efforts about this. Publicly antagonizing, by testifying, someone who is abusive can be stressful and somewhat risky. And they are your neighbors!
I had given evidence in court twice before - once was in the stand an entire day - and this was far and above the hardest and worst. It was horrendous. I'm still getting flashbacks. Their lawyer was an arsehole.

The whole time I was giving evidence, the male neighbour was right in my eyeline. Female, just out of it. That has never happened to me before. They're violent and aggressive (thanks Selby council for rehousing headtheballs chucked out of York) but I am not and wasn't afraid - just wanted them dealt with. After all that, she got away with it - mainly because of the tech issue of the magistrates refusing to use headphones in Leeds (York court had already agreed) combined with the lawyer not being familiar enough with the case to jump through the recordings to the relevant bits. Leeds claimed it wouldn't be fair on the crims if the magistrates could hear the recordings but the fragrant pair couldn't - despite fact their lawyer had let them hear everything, long since - and they could have listened after, or something. So, essentially she got off. Was also told afterwards that it was in fact two magistrates not a judge and some randomer, as I'd thought - when it should normally be three (backlog of cases due to covid, I guess) and it was thought that only having two went against prosecution. With one more, we'd have had a better chance of prevailing.

We got a guilty on him but it's remarkable she got away with it as she was on all recordings. In one recording he even instructed her to "belt" the dog - there was a brief pause - then dog yelped, which to me was clear enough evidence she had participated.

We also weren't allowed to enter any history whatsoever into evidence - just that dog and those incidents - so the horrific thing I saw a few years back - her lobbing another dog onto a concrete drive and him kicking it - couldn't even be mentioned. (In that case I saw the whole thing and she initiated it).

So it was good in that we got him but frustrating in that she got away with it.

He had the order banning him from having a dog for 4 or 5 years, I forget, but she had nothing. She also apparently managed to establish the dog was her's not his (despite the fact they're married, so you'd think it would belong to both). This meant the dog couldn't be taken away from them legally as she technically owned it and they found her not guilty...

Loathsome people.

In a couple of the recordings, kids were clearly present. In one, he was telling a child how to kill a dog. Social services had these full recordings and transcripts and have said they're parents of the year, apparently, fully knowing what they did and what they were trying to get their kids to do (he was telling a child how you smother a dog).

RSPCA inspector told me, when they questioned him, his defence was he knew all about dogs - because he used to go hare coursing. He boasted that even if found guilty he'd be OK as he had conned the social workers into being onside and they'd write a supportive report outlining his excuses.
 

Endlessly Amazed

Endlessly, you know, amazed
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Messages
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Location
Arizona, USA
I had given evidence in court twice before - once was in the stand an entire day - and this was far and above the hardest and worst. It was horrendous. I'm still getting flashbacks. Their lawyer was an arsehole.

The whole time I was giving evidence, the male neighbour was right in my eyeline. Female, just out of it. That has never happened to me before. They're violent and aggressive (thanks Selby council for rehousing headtheballs chucked out of York) but I am not and wasn't afraid - just wanted them dealt with. After all that, she got away with it - mainly because of the tech issue of the magistrates refusing to use headphones in Leeds (York court had already agreed) combined with the lawyer not being familiar enough with the case to jump through the recordings to the relevant bits. Leeds claimed it wouldn't be fair on the crims if the magistrates could hear the recordings but the fragrant pair couldn't - despite fact their lawyer had let them hear everything, long since - and they could have listened after, or something. So, essentially she got off. Was also told afterwards that it was in fact two magistrates not a judge and some randomer, as I'd thought - when it should normally be three (backlog of cases due to covid, I guess) and it was thought that only having two went against prosecution. With one more, we'd have had a better chance of prevailing.

We got a guilty on him but it's remarkable she got away with it as she was on all recordings. In one recording he even instructed her to "belt" the dog - there was a brief pause - then dog yelped, which to me was clear enough evidence she had participated.

We also weren't allowed to enter any history whatsoever into evidence - just that dog and those incidents - so the horrific thing I saw a few years back - her lobbing another dog onto a concrete drive and him kicking it - couldn't even be mentioned. (In that case I saw the whole thing and she initiated it).

So it was good in that we got him but frustrating in that she got away with it.

He had the order banning him from having a dog for 4 or 5 years, I forget, but she had nothing. She also apparently managed to establish the dog was her's not his (despite the fact they're married, so you'd think it would belong to both). This meant the dog couldn't be taken away from them legally as she technically owned it and they found her not guilty...

Loathsome people.

In a couple of the recordings, kids were clearly present. In one, he was telling a child how to kill a dog. Social services had these full recordings and transcripts and have said they're parents of the year, apparently, fully knowing what they did and what they were trying to get their kids to do (he was telling a child how you smother a dog).

RSPCA inspector told me, when they questioned him, his defence was he knew all about dogs - because he used to go hare coursing. He boasted that even if found guilty he'd be OK as he had conned the social workers into being onside and they'd write a supportive report outlining his excuses.

!!! Thanks for the additional details. I am an American, and you are in the UK, so I will tread lightly...but please be careful with these sociopath neighbors (and their SP-in-training child). You took the right and courageous action. These people are potentially dangerous to you. They are now aware of you as an enemy and they are close by. You have openly challenged their public image and the man's right to do what he wants with the dogs. They have a lifestyle of casual violence, at least against animals. Please be careful.

The occasional ineffectiveness of the courts and associated public advocates - social services - are familiar to me from helping out victims of domestic abuse here in the US. Sometimes the failures of the legal system encouraged my mind to drift into thoughts of, er, extralegal actions.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Yorkshire
!!! Thanks for the additional details. I am an American, and you are in the UK, so I will tread lightly...but please be careful with these sociopath neighbors (and their SP-in-training child). You took the right and courageous action. These people are potentially dangerous to you. They are now aware of you as an enemy and they are close by. You have openly challenged their public image and the man's right to do what he wants with the dogs. They have a lifestyle of casual violence, at least against animals. Please be careful.

The occasional ineffectiveness of the courts and associated public advocates - social services - are familiar to me from helping out victims of domestic abuse here in the US. Sometimes the failures of the legal system encouraged my mind to drift into thoughts of, er, extralegal actions.
Thanks. Ah they have hated us since the week they moved in - 8 years ago. And they'll hate whoever they live next door to, next. And I heard they made the life hell of a previous neighbour, too. And they'll never figure out that maybe it's them, not their neighbours...

Luckily, he's the size of a garden gnome, and they can never be sure if my third son - who comes and goes a lot and lived here during lockdown - is here, or not and he is six foot tall and goes to the gym 5 days a week... They're very wary if they think that son is around.

Just got a Ring doorbell so we can see anything on our drive or in the front garden and they will have clocked it. (We've had a few incidents of brand new cars being scratched when in our drive - which has no public footpath running past it - and tyres being let down, etc).

I also have a hyper vigilant dog - who also looks very scary indeed (staffy cross but looks like full staffy).
 
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uair01

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Rotterdam
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Coal

The Ultimate Skepticus
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Jun 27, 2015
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Yeah there was a coots next in one of the flood ponds down our lane last year, hunt hounds were 'walked' past, went in tore 'em to bits. That's OK apparently. :mad:
 
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