Current State Of The War Against Terror

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Interesting article but I'm not sure the parallels are as strong as the author would like. Extreme right wing views of the sort once held Orell remain, thankfully, the preserve of a tiny minority that has little to no support in the wider community. Contrast with Islamism where a quarter to a third of European Muslims are, when polled, prepared to admit some sympathy for terrorism and even more would like to see aspects of shariah law installed here.

I don't think pretending that the domestic and Islamist far rights are two sides of the same coin is terribly helpful.
Good point.

I was more interested in the suggestions in the article for countering propaganda and winning people awayt from extreme ideas.
 

Analogue Boy

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What I have noticed with all this shit is it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

'THEY were spying on him'....'the police failed to act' etc.
Pastafarians know where they stand. The Flying Spaghetti Monster needs no murderous followers nor greedy bankers or indeed any ignorant psychopathic twats of any persuasion. In fact, it doesn't need anything. It is what it is. What this does teach us is that no amount of righteous murder, beheadings or fiery deaths are necessary. As a God, it doesn't need these things as it has been managing perfectly well for an infinity. I imagine the other Gods feel the same way.
 
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In your face mullahboys!

A Swedish cartoonist who depicted the Prophet Muhammad as a dog has made his first public appearance since attending a debate that was targeted in a gun attack in Copenhagen last month.

Lars Vilks received a prize for courage from a free press group, at a heavily secured event in the Danish parliament.

His cartoon offended many Muslims and he now lives under guard in Sweden.

A radicalised gunman with gang links attacked the Copenhagen debate and a synagogue, killing two people. ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31885321
 
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I know these areas very well.

Queen's Park, St John's Wood and Maida Vale are indeed well-heeled parts of inner London but like most parts of inner London they have some very grotty bits. The Emwazi family seem to have spent much of the time living on the Mozart Estate in Queen's Park. This estate is a notorious gangland area.

The mansion block on Maida Vale which is pictured in the Mail article is very nice though.

My question is around the decision to grant the family asylum - what persecution were they fleeing exactly? And as we so often see in such cases the alleged fear of persecution in their homeland didn't seem to prevent father and son returning to Kuwait for long periods to holiday or work. It's unsurprising the asylum system has fallen into such poor standing amongst the general public.
A controversial British pressure group has been explicitly backed by Islamic State.

The terror group has published a guide for jihadis – including tips on making bombs and committing fraud – which suggests turning to Cage for legal help.

How To Survive In The West advises that jihadis use Cage’s website for tips on dealing with surveillance, raids and interrogations.

Cage were dubbed apologists for extremism after leader Asim Qureshi called Jihadi John a ‘beautiful young man’.

A spokesman was not available for comment.

The organisation stepped into the spotlight after the murderous terrorist's identity was revealed in February ...

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ips-organisation-s-website.html#ixzz3ZkVeChDa
 

rynner2

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Islamic State conflict: Two Britons killed in RAF Syria strike

Two British Islamic State jihadists who died in Syria were killed by an RAF drone strike, David Cameron has said.
Cardiff-born Reyaad Khan, 21, and Ruhul Amin, from Aberdeen, died last month in Raqqa, alongside another fighter, in the first targeted UK drone attack on a British citizen, Mr Cameron told MPs.
Khan - the target - had been plotting "barbaric" attacks on UK soil, he said.
The "act of self defence" was lawful, despite MPs previously ruling out UK military action in Syria, the PM said.

Khan was killed in a precision strike on 21 August by a remotely piloted aircraft, "after meticulous planning", while he was travelling in a vehicle.
Another British national, Junaid Hussain, 21 and from Birmingham, was killed in a separate air strike by US forces in Raqqa on 24 August.
Both Khan and Hussain had been involved in actively recruiting IS "sympathisers" and plotting to attack "high-profile public commemorations" taking place in the UK this summer, the prime minister said.

The attorney general had been consulted and agreed there was a "clear legal basis" for the strike on Khan, Mr Cameron added.
Acting Labour leader Harriet Harman urged the government to publish the legal advice.
Downing Street said it was a "long-standing convention that we do not publish advice of the law officers".

Two years ago MPs rejected possible UK military action in Syria, but last September approved British participation in air strikes against IS targets in Iraq only.
However, officials said the UK would "act immediately [in Syria] and explain to Parliament afterwards" if there was "a critical British national interest at stake".

The strike on Khan was "the first time in modern times that a British asset has been used to conduct a strike in a country where we're not involved in a war", the PM confirmed.
"Of course Britain has used remotely piloted aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan but this is a new departure and that's why I thought it important to come to the House and explain why I think it is necessary and justified."
Mr Cameron told MPs: "My first duty as prime minister is to keep the British people safe."

In reference to Khan, he added: "There was a terrorist directing murder on our streets and no other means to stop him.
"This government does not for one moment take these decisions lightly.
"But I am not prepared to stand here in the aftermath of a terrorist attack on our streets and have to explain to the House why I did not take the chance to prevent it when I could have done."

etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34178998
 

rynner2

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The drone strikes that killed two British men fighting with Islamic State (IS, Isis or Isil) extremists in Syria provoke much reaction.

In the Daily Mail, sketchwriter Quentin Letts describes how David Cameron informed MPs of the killings: "A hush fell on the Chamber as we were taken from this dusty Commons to somewhere muddily blood-stained in the Syrian wilderness... the prime minister's language in his prepared Statement was assiduously non-triumphalist - more dainty, I suspect, than the nation at large may have been happy to hear."

The Sun, which says it had an undercover reporter "groomed online" by another British jihadist killed in a US attack, is among those satisfied with the news. "Until now IS have believed themselves safe enough in their Raqqa stronghold. We couldn't be happier that British drones backed by on-the-ground intelligence have put them straight on that."

In the Daily Telegraph's opinion, Mr Cameron was justified in ordering the strikes because of what he described as a "clear and present" danger to the security of British people. "Alternatives, such as arresting the men, were not available in the lawless ungoverned space occupied by Isil."

The Independent points out that the PM was using an article in the United Nations charter - preserving the "inherent right of individual... self-defence if an armed attack occurs against" a member state - as the basis to justify the strike.

However, the Guardian quotes a law professor questioning whether the criteria was met; specifically whether an attack was "imminent". "It appears the UK is adopting a broader and more expansive vision of what the right of self-defence means... a departure from established British practice in the use of force in self-defence," Prof Philippe Sands QC tells the paper.

In the analysis of Times defence editor Deborah Haynes: "The killing sets a precedent that Britain is willing to destroy enemies anywhere in the world deemed to be ungoverned space, something this government and Labour before it had insisted the country did not do."

The Daily Mirror - pointing out the PM is "bombing in Syria despite losing a Parliamentary vote against military action - says Mr Cameron must give more details of the terrorist attacks and publish the legal advice he received. "Then everyone can decide," it says.

According to the Daily Express, that detail includes a plot to kill the Queen in a "massive bomb blast at a ceremony in London on August 15 on the 70th anniversary of VJ Day" that was foiled by intelligence services. It was among six terror plots to be thwarted in 12 months, the paper says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-34181622
 

Quake42

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The BBC news this morning had a reporter in Cardiff banging on about how this will damage relations with "the community".

Seriously, why are we pandering to this crap? "The community" damages relations with the rest of the UK public when its kids grow up to rape and pillage in support of a 7th sentury death cult.
 

Swifty

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If the Queen can manage to avoid being blown by tomorrow evening, she'll have beaten Queen Victoria's record of 63 years and five months as Britain's longest ever reigning monarch. Sometime around 5:30pm. Perhaps the recent attempt to kill her is why more isn't being made of this fact.
 

Peripart

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If the Queen can manage to avoid being blown by tomorrow evening, she'll have beaten Queen Victoria's record of 63 years and five months as Britain's longest ever reigning monarch. Sometime around 5:30pm. Perhaps the recent attempt to kill her is why more isn't being made of this fact.
I think that quite a bit is being made of it - everything from the news, to crappy quizzes on The One Show (coincidentally, this is also the name that the Queen gives to her own Xmas broadcast), to emails from the Royal Mint offering me a 5-headed coin for £13...
 

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I think that quite a bit is being made of it - everything from the news, to crappy quizzes on The One Show (coincidentally, this is also the name that the Queen gives to her own Xmas broadcast), to emails from the Royal Mint offering me a 5-headed coin for £13...
I didn't know that .. thanks :) ..... now all she's got to do is not die in the next 24 hours
 

Swifty

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Dave tells Mr Speaker about those ISIL killings

 
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Lord Adam West, former First Sea Lord and Security Minister was on BBC News. He made the point that there are legal issues which must be resolved. This isn't some mad Trot speaking, its the former Head of the Royal Navy. He also said that the killing of the jihadis could not be compared to the actions of ISIS.

I support the bombing of ISIS in Syria and drone attacks on jihadis but the legal underpinning of such actions and what restraints are necessary must be investigated. The Intelligence & Security Committee at Westminster should investigate the issues.
 

Quake42

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Boo fricking hoo.

Father of British Isis fighters fears they are on government hitlist
The father of two young men believed to be fighting alongsideIslamic Statein Syria has said he fears they could be on a British government “hitlist”.
Nasser Muthana, 21, went to school inCardiffwith Reyaad Khan, who David Cameron confirmed on Monday had been killed in an RAF drone strike in Syria along with fellow Briton, Ruhul Amin. Muthana is now believed to have joined Isis with his 18-year-old brother, Aseel.
Their father, Ahmed, a retired electrical engineer, said on Tuesday he was concerned his sons could be a target for British forces.
“I am frightened because my sons are out there too,” he said. “I worry that they could be on a hitlist. I don’t think I will ever see my sons again.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ighters-fears-they-are-on-government-hit-list
 

Bigphoot2

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Lord Adam West, former First Sea Lord and Security Minister was on BBC News. He made the point that there are legal issues which must be resolved. This isn't some mad Trot speaking, its the former Head of the Royal Navy. He also said that the killing of the jihadis could not be compared to the actions of ISIS.

I support the bombing of ISIS in Syria and drone attacks on jihadis but the legal underpinning of such actions and what restraints are necessary must be investigated. The Intelligence & Security Committee at Westminster should investigate the issues.
I remember when he was just plain old Batman :)
 

hunck

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Isis are our enemies. If he's gone to fight for them he's made himself an enemy. He's over 18 & must know there's a fair chance of getting killed one way or another. I'm not gonna shed a tear for him if shit happens. If he manages to survive he should not be allowed back in the UK. Or if he is, taken straight into custody. Don't want fuckers like that on the streets.

Obviously his father's going to be upset but don't expect much sympathy from the rest of us.
 

rynner2

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The deaths of British jihadists Ruhul Amin and Reyaad Khan in an RAF drone strike in Syria spark a major debate in Wednesday's press.

Amin and Khan had joined with Islamic State extremists and had been linked with potential plots to attack targets within the UK.
The Daily Mail says the pair were on a "kill list" of at least 10 British jihadists earmarked as possible targets for the missile-armed Reaper drones.
The paper says the list has been drawn up by "MI5, MI6 , GCHQ and the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre" and contains jihadists deemed to be "directing operations" from Syria - encouraging attacks on targets in Europe.
Writer Michael Burleigh argues in the Mail that despite questions over the strike's legality "we need to grow up and recognise that drones - used judiciously and specifically targeted - are one of the most effective weapons in our arsenal".
However, the paper's editorial (whilst emphasising that it "shed no tears" for Amin and Khan) says that drone strikes may be "counterproductive" by killing civilians and "creating 100 new jihadis" for every one who is killed.

The Independent's editorial echoes another point made in the Mail: the faulty intelligence used to justify the Iraq War raises questions over the veracity of the information used as a basis for this operation.
Dave Brown's cartoon in the paper shows a drone in the guise of the WWI Kitchener poster, recruiting IS jihadists.

The Financial Times also wants to know, "a full explanation of how the decision to use killer drones in ungoverned spaces evolved in Whitehall - and how it will be conducted in future."

The Sun stands firmly behind the weapon's use in Syria.
In a page-wide editorial, it says the two Britons and a third jihadist were killed "to neutralise an armed threat", adding "these killings were legal - and justifiable both militarily and morally".

The Guardian asks how the public, which has not seen the intelligence reports suggesting Khan and Amin posed a threat to Britain, could be able to judge if the strikes were justified.
"Mr Cameron should be going out of his way to give as much information as is safe, encouraging parliamentary investigations and sharing legal advice," it adds.
But the paper's political columnist Rafael Behr takes a subtly different tone, saying that "The real charge against [Khan] was treason. For want of an available courtroom, the death penalty was delivered by remote control."
He adds that anti-intervention arguments would not have stopped Khan plotting against his former homeland.
"A drone did that. All liberal scruple makes me crave a better way - if only we could find one."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-34193577
 

Quake42

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Astonishing how out of touch with mainstream public opinion much of the media appears to be. This and the migrant stuff. The only person I know opposed to the droning of these monsters is a tiresome Trot in Australia.
 
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Astonishing how out of touch with mainstream public opinion much of the media appears to be. This and the migrant stuff. The only person I know opposed to the droning of these monsters is a tiresome Trot in Australia.
as a recovering Trotskyist I find that offensive. ;)
 

Ermintruder

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I seriously commend this video for your collective education and collective comment. I find it very difficult to disagree with his points..
 

rynner2

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I seriously commend this video for your collective education and collective comment. I find it very difficult to disagree with his points..
Me too.

I'm beginning to feel swamped by despair at the state of the world (especially Europe). No Euro politician seems to have a clue what the dangers are, or how to improve the situation. I suspect things will get much worse before they get better - if they ever do get better. :(
 

Quake42

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as a recovering Trotskyist I find that offensive. ;)
I hope you're in full recovery now :cool:

Incidentally, the guy I mentioned is the same Trot who claims that IS's main supporters in Syria and Iraq are Christians and, er, Jews (obviously - there's always an anti-semitic conspiracy theory and the less sense it makes the better!).
 

rynner2

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Mystery object prompts Helston security fear and warning from police
By WBGraeme | Posted: October 27, 2015

THE discovery of a suspicious object in a hole in Helston prompted fears of a possible bomb scare.
The police were alerted of the cylindrical device, which was discovered at the entrance to a drain.
With the threat of terrorism a real possibility, officers were wary of touching the object which had no visible markings.

It emerged that the object was a geo-cache – the hidden prize in a treasure hunt involving GPS coordinates. :rolleyes:
A statement from the Helston neighbourhood policing team said: "This item was left partially hidden in a worrying location causing quite a lot of concern.
"After a considerable amount of police time spent at the scene and various police departments getting involved, it was finally discovered that this was in fact a geo-cache.
"Please don't take this as us being over cautious but with the current security threat we must always be vigilant in the way we deal with suspicious items.
"Although many are harmless, we have to spend time assessing each in turn to make sure they are safe."

The police said geo-cache enthusiasts were welcome to continue to enjoy themselves but were asked to think about the item hidden.
"Make sure it is marked as a geo-cache, the contents can be seen and be sure it cannot be mistaken for something harmful," the police added.
"Finally think about where you are placing it and who might need to know it is there."

Geo-caching is a popular national treasure hunt where anyone with a smart phone and set of GPS coordinates can try to find hidden messages.
There of thousands of caches, created by people taking part, including in Helston Town Centre, in the graveyard of St Michael's Church and in Penrose woods.

Since August last year, the UK's current threat level, as set by the Government, is classed as 'severe'. It means a terrorist attack is "highly likely".
All government departments, including the police and RNAS Culdrose for instance, are at a 'heightened' state of alert, which means extra security measures have to be enforced.

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Mystery...ecurity-fear/story-28055681-detail/story.html
 

Swifty

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My opinion isn't aimed at anyone posting here on this thread so ..

Migrants have been coming to England for thousands of years and look! .. wow! .. England's still here!. This has all happened before, many times. Are we going to start DNA testing everyone to find out if they're a true English? .. Most of us reading in this thread, if not all, are mongrels from some point in time. I very much doubt my original great great etc grandparents were called Adam and Eve.

Yes, the migrant influx should be managed effectively in an ideal world but the world isn't ideal. That's why we all keep moving around .. none of this recent migrant influx is going to change anything for the worse apart from short term financial wranglings, if anything, the gene pool will be increased, less incestuous birth defects, broadening of cultural ideas, stronger bonds with our neighbours ..
 

Swifty

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Did you just call me a twat Rynner ? :rofl: ..... or does TWAT stand for something else ? ... either way :rofl:
 

Quake42

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My opinion isn't aimed at anyone posting here on this thread so ..

Migrants have been coming to England for thousands of years and look! .. wow! .. England's still here!. This has all happened before, many times. Are we going to start DNA testing everyone to find out if they're a true English? .. Most of us reading in this thread, if not all, are mongrels from some point in time. I very much doubt my original great great etc grandparents were called Adam and Eve.
A few points:

(1) I'm afraid the whole "mongrel nation"/"nation of immigrants" tripe has been fairly comprehensively debunked. DNA testing shows that most of us actually trace our ancestry back to the first Britons who arrived post-Ice Age. Roman, Saxon, Viking and Norman immigration seems to have been much less than previously thought and certainly had a smaller effect on the gene pool than anyone expected.

(2) Nonetheless, each wave of migration/invasion caused untold problems for the people already here. It took several hundred years after the Norman Conquest for the scars to heal and for England to look like a homogenous nation. It certainly wasn't a great advert for repeating the experiment.

(3) Saxons/Vikings etc were not moving to a country with a well-developed welfare state which they had never contributed to but intended to avail themselves of.

(4) The majority of the invading/migrating groups pre-1948 came from similar cultures to that of the indigenous Brits. Historically, large population movements from very different cultures rarely works out well for the indigenous people. I don't think we should take the chance.

(5) Most importantly - it's all about the numbers. There are now 7 billion people in the world. Do you think all of them should be allowed to move to the UK if they want to? Because if you don't, you've already conceded the principle and all we're arguing about is the numbers. The UK already cannot feed itself, housing is in short supply and we likely to have serious problems with power and water supplies in the coming years. Does it really make sense to allow millions more people to move here, most of whom are unlikely ever to be net contributors?

That's why we all keep moving around .. none of this recent migrant influx is going to change anything for the worse apart from short term financial wranglings
If you're female, gay or Jewish this migrant influx is very likely to change things for the worse.

if anything, the gene pool will be increased, less incestuous birth defects
The migrants wanting to move here tend not to come from cultures which intermarry with the local population. Indeed, the predominance of cousin marriages in Middle Eastern and Pakistani communities has led to serious birth defects. I remember Ann Cryer MP being howled down when she mentioned this very real problem.

broadening of cultural ideas
Not sure I want my culture broadened by yet Saudi-inspired more religious fanaticism. I think our culture is fine as it is.


But we have a new thread for migrants and refugees...
True. These last couple of posts should be moved there I guess.
 

rynner2

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More unspecified terror threats:
Turkish plane diverted to Canada over bomb threat

A Turkish Airlines flight from New York was diverted to Canada after a bomb threat, Canadian officials say.
The Turkey-bound flight with 256 people on board landed safely at Halifax International Airport in eastern Canada.
Canadian police said they were investigating but would not comment on the details of the threat.

The incident comes amid heightened tensions a week after attacks in Paris that killed 130 people.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police force for Nova Scotia said on its Twitter feed that the bomb threat was received at 22:50 local time (02:50 GMT) - by which time the flight had already taken off from John F Kennedy airport, according to flight tracking sites.
It landed in Halifax at 12:53 local.

Last Tuesday, two Air France flights from the US to Paris were diverted because of bombs threats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34893641

 
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