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David Icke & His Work

I crawled off the train at Victoria this morning and sleepily passed the ticket barriers only to be stopped by a group of dinosaurs in suits handing out leaflets.

When I stopped gibbering and sobbing I realised they were from Microsoft (then started gibbering and sobbing afresh).
 
I crawled off the train at Victoria this morning and sleepily passed the ticket barriers only to be stopped by a group of dinosaurs in suits handing out leaflets.

When I stopped gibbering and sobbing I realised they were from Microsoft (then started gibbering and sobbing afresh).

are you sure they were masks ;)
 
Techybloke said:
are you sure they were masks ;)

Well two of them were consuming a commuter but that's normal for rush hour Victoria, sometimes the commuters just turn on each other.
 
Dangerous place to hang out with dinosours.

Confined spaces too, last place you need 40 foot monsters
 
Leaves, Snow, Dinosaurs... is there any level Network Rail won't stoop to?
 
Yes - Using excessive dirt in the carriages as an excuse to cancel trains.
 
if a reptilian/humanoid creature were to walk through central london, i doubt very much if it would be paid very much attention unless it were handing out free snacks/drinks.
 
Reptile/Alien/Cyborg/Three headed giraffe, no matter just walk around saying "spare some change" to gurantee total invisibility!
 
Icke was on Howard Hughes' TalkSport show on Saturday. Entertaining as always.
 
high and mighty said:
if a reptilian/humanoid creature were to walk through central london, i doubt very much if it would be paid very much attention unless it were handing out free snacks/drinks.

and even then I expect no-one would comment on them being a reptilian/humanoid hybrid ... or thank them for the free snacks/drinks ;)
 
They were at London Bridge Station this morning...don't think they were handing out anything free except leaflets telling us how great Microsoft are, so everyone ignored them...
 
Damn stingy lizards,
No wonder nobody votes for them.

I wonder who the tory's will pick this time for their new Lizard Leader ;)
 
Help, I'm reading Icke !

I'm reading David Icke's "The biggest secret". I don't know if I'll manage to finish the book, but Icke's weird tapestry of facts is quite captivating. Although I don't beleive his basic premise (Babylonian reptilians controlling the world). To me this sounds too much like the "grand unified conspiracy theory" (I don't believe in string theory either).

But he digs up a lot of factoids that make me go "hmmm":

One of their number was the infamous outlaw, Jesse James, a 33rd degree Mason assigned by Albert Pike to rob banks in the north to further fund the war.

In Icke's universe everyone seems to be a freemason (and a Jew and a Satanist), all the way up to the Pope himself :D

The Payseurs" Lancaster Railway was, through the Alabama Mineral Company, the controller of Coca Cola, Pepsi Cola, General Motors, Boeing, Ford and Standard Oil.

This one made me wonder - who really controls our national industry ... I once saw a network diagram of the richest families in the Netherlands and their share holdings. Then I got a similar feeling.

The biggest bank in Texas, Interfirst, of which George Bush is a director, merged in 1987 with Republic Bank to form First Republic. This was later absorbed by Nationsbank which then merged with the Bank of America. These two launder CIA drug money and that"s appropriate because the forerunner to the CIA, the OSS or Office of Strategic Services, was created from the Payseurs" own security network which was formed by the Selma, Rome and Dalton Railroad to protect the Military Railroad System.

I once read about the the connection between the FBI and the Pinkerton's hunt for conterfeiters (not sure I get this right). Some roots go way back in history.

The British Crown owns the lands of the united states and the land and institutions of the United States, including the Internal Revenue Service which collects the taxation and the Federal Reserve Board, the privately owned "central bank" of America which lends the government money that doesn"t exist and charges the taxpayers interest on it. The Federal Reserve Board is owned by the same Brotherhood families in Britain and Europe who own the rest of America.

A private central bank? Sounds so crazy it might be true.

And probably this is a well known conspiracy theory:

Lincoln"s assassin was John Wilkes Booth, a 33rd degree Freemason, and a member of Mazzini"s Young America. He was selected by the Knights of the Golden Circle who were themselves funded by the London Freemasonic bankers. The cover up was headed by the Freemason, Edwin Stanton, who ordered blockades of all the roads out of Washington DC, except for the one that Booth used to escape. Alongside this road a drunk of similar appearance and build to Booth was murdered and his body burned in a barn. Who officially "found" this man? Only Edwin Stanton who, of course, identified him immediately as Booth.

I don't have the time to research all these interesting statements. But I would appreaciate having an "Annotated companion for confused David Icke readers" :?
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
These should start you off. Have fun:

Thanks for all the links. These will keep me amused for a long time to come.

And ... I should have used the "search" option first before asking. :headbutt:
 
I admire anyone who has the fortitude (Ha! Ha!) to read any of Icke's blatherings for more than a few pages. Even more so if you've managed to consider his theories with critical analysis.
 
Yes - theories: how much any of it deals with any actual facts is another thing entirely ;)
 
Jerry_B said:
Yes - theories: how much any of it deals with any actual facts is another thing entirely ;)
Icke starts with facts, alright. Quite enough to keep people turning the pages. It's the points where he reveals 'the truth' that are often heading for gibbering insanity. He has also made explicitly anti-semitic statements in the past, as well as in relation to Holocaust denial, which have won him friends and supporters amongst the Far Right in his home country and around the World.

http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/IckeBackgrounder.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke
 
Hmmm true, but conspiracy buffs often don't let facts get in the way.
 
The UFO/alien section of my local Ottakars consists of a couple of UFO encyclopedias and no less than seven books by David Icke. And I live in Norfolk! Hardly a hotbed of conspiracy theorists, you would have thought. So obviously something the man's saying is going down well.
 
Stormkhan said:
I admire anyone who has the fortitude (Ha! Ha!) to read any of Icke's blatherings for more than a few pages

Well - I'm fascinated by the tapestry Icke makes of real facts and total nonsense. Outrageousness like this had me speechless for a few seconds:

Both Cathy and Kelly were forced to have sex with animals for videos made on the orders of President Ronald Reagan, Cathy says in her book. "Uncle Ron" liked nothing more than to watch these videos and they were known as Uncle Ronnie"s Bed-time Stories. They were recorded and produced, Cathy says, by his pornographer, Michael Dante (also known as Michael Viti).

Or:

On more than one occasion, she says, she was brutally raped by a man who has been a major name in United Kingdom politics for decades. This man, she says, used to hold her naked body to him by using hooks inserted into her flesh at the hip. She was just a little girl when this was happening. She told me that this man was Edward Heath and his name comes up again and again in interviews with victims of Satanic abuse in Britain. Heath was the UK Prime Minister from 1970-74 and the Bilderberg Group member who signed the UK into the European Community, now Union.

And then these totally illogical 90-degree turns in his reasoning. Very funny:

There are whole armies of them like the Delta Force, the "toy soldiers", in the United States and other "elite" (often psychopathic) groupings like the SAS and the Parachute Regiment in the United Kingdom.

[Here it comes, fasten your seatbelts >>> ]

The name, Delta, symbolises the pyramid and also relates to the Nile Delta and the ancient Egyptians.

Weird that Icke doesn't put a reference to his sources in this "gem". Certainly - this is one of the premises of Hubbard's "Dianetics":

Over the centuries it became understood that if you torture a child in the womb the baby would disassociate or "split" and so mothers are traumatised during pregnancy to traumatise the child. Needles are inserted into the womb to stab the baby. Many are induced prematurely because of the effect that has on them and it is also part of the selection process.

And some of his facts are simply untrue. One detail sent me browsing through some very questionable websites:

He is also a board member of Paedika, the Dutch paedophile magazine which interviewed Ralph Underwager of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

AFAIK there is no such magazine in the Netherlands. However, we have a Dutch society for paedophiles which even has it's own - rather disturbing - website. Click the link if you dare:

http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=203000

There must be a lot of weird sources behind Icke's outrageous claims, because there are a lot of footnotes. Fortunately David Icke puts in a lot of references, and a lot of these sources sound even kookier than Icke does. How is it possible that he believes all this "information"?

Note: I don't read the book myself - I use "Microsoft Reader" to read the book for me. Great passtime when cooking or washing the dishes. With Icke's book it doesn't matter if I miss a sentence or two ;) And it's a great way to fall asleep - the monotonous computer voice is very relaxing :snore:
 
graylien said:
The UFO/alien section of my local Ottakars consists of a couple of UFO encyclopedias and no less than seven books by David Icke. And I live in Norfolk! Hardly a hotbed of conspiracy theorists, you would have thought. So obviously something the man's saying is going down well.

Perhaps Icke is tapping into all the end of the world fears. Perhaps after the damp squib that was the millenium, folks need another date to worry about. Or perhpas it is just another conspiracy, Icke in bed with the book distributors filling punters heads with nonsense while in the background the evil government is selling our country to America. ;)
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Icke starts with facts, alright. Quite enough to keep people turning the pages. It's the points where he reveals 'the truth' that are often heading for gibbering insanity. He has also made explicitly anti-semitic statements in the past, as well as in relation to Holocaust denial, which have won him friends and supporters amongst the Far Right in his home country and around the World.

Yes, but his 'facts' are open to question (see uair1's post above). Either way, he offers little if no proof for any of his claims. And IIRC he is either unaware or doesn't care that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a malicious forgery/hoax. I get the impression that he derives alot of his non-reptoid ideas/theories from such 'books'.
 
Today I've decided that I've read enough of Icke, I'll go on to some other books. But first I'll share a last few "pearls" of wisdom from the book. I'm still amazed at the lateral connections that Icke manages to make between unrelated facts. That is really awe-inspiring.

An artful connection between degrees of latitude and degrees of freemasonry, packaged in Kennedy murder conspiracy:

The location of the (Kennedy) assassination, Dallas, Texas is close to the 33rd parallel of the 33rd degree of latitude. The top level of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry is the 32nd degree and the 33rd degree is only for those who have contributed significantly to the Great Work, the takeover of Planet Earth.

Splitting the name of Dealey plaza into Dea + Lay is simply genius:

Dealey Plaza is a mass of esoteric symbolism and is officially named after a 33rd degree Freemason called George Bannerman Dealey, an early executive of the Dallas Morning News. Dealey means "goddess line". Ley can also mean rule or law in Spanish, so translating as "goddess-rule".

(...) Dealey Plaza, the site of the first Freemason temple in Dallas, is shaped like a pyramid with the capstone missing (see Figure 51 overleaf).

(...) If anyone thinks this is mere coincidence they should do a little research into the background of the Brotherhood secret societies at the top levels and see the staggering obsession they have with their symbols and rituals.

And yet another fact-combination that felt like I walked into a brick wall:

Kennedy was shot in the back, the head, and the throat, and they are the same wounds suffered by the mythical Hiram Abiff according to Freemasonic legend and initiation.

And remember what I said of Icke's 90-degree plot turns? Here are several in just one paragraph:

Another stop on her (Jackie Kennedy's) tour (after the murder of her husband) was the island of Santorina with its reputation for vampires. The origin of the vampire stories are the blood drinking and blood sucking rituals of the Brotherhood and their "energy sucking" rituals, also. The vampire stories put the truth before our eyes in a way that we think is only fiction. This is something the Brotherhood loves to do via its biggest vehicle for communication, Hollywood, a name which comes from the holly bush, the holly (holy) wood of the Druid magicians. Hollywood is called a place of magic. Exactly what it is. It's playing with our minds, manipulating illusions.

I think I've read 2/3 of the book and I managed to make it into Icke's analysis of princess Diana's death (= ritual sacrifice as the godess Diana, for which she was groomed since her birth). Now I've had enough - the plot is getting predictable.

Still I think we should be thankful for someone like David Icke. The world would be a boring place without eccentrics like him. :p And he is in a class of his own. Today I explored the "speculative science" section (a subsection of "esoterica") in a big Utrecht bookshop. Most of the authors were a lot worse than Icke.

BTW: Does anyone know a good book about the "ark of the covenant"? At the bookshop they had only total rubbish ...
 
Don't read those books, you'll just get yourself into a right old state ;)

The big problem I have with Icke is that his political observations are actually quite interesting in respect of the links between individuals and organisations, but then he has to go and spoil it all by ranting on about conspiracies which exist at an esoteric and supernatural level, thus causing people to discredit -everything- he says.

I also don't think he's anti-semitic per se. An extreme exponent of free speech perhaps; an idea which I can find no fault with in principal. He is a shining example of what happens when you allow people to air their opinions (and also in relation to holocaust deniers), whatever you may feel about them, in order to let people draw their own conclusions about how valid or bonkers they consider people to be. State sanctioned punishment for having an idea or opinion is worse than letting people have their vile opinions in the first place. I think the anti-semitic thing has its basis in someone interpreting his 'space lizards' to mean Jewish people, and that criticism stuck. I don't think that criticising Israel and her policies makes you an anti-semite, nor does defending the right of people who are anti-semites to preach their ideas.

I suppose his two sets of ideas go hand in hand though. If only he'd stuck to the politics then he may actually be regarded as a sound commentator.
 
MrSnowman said:
...

I also don't think he's anti-semitic per se. An extreme exponent of free speech perhaps; an idea which I can find no fault with in principal. He is a shining example of what happens when you allow people to air their opinions (and also in relation to holocaust deniers), whatever you may feel about them, in order to let people draw their own conclusions about how valid or bonkers they consider people to be. State sanctioned punishment for having an idea or opinion is worse than letting people have their vile opinions in the first place. I think the anti-semitic thing has its basis in someone interpreting his 'space lizards' to mean Jewish people, and that criticism stuck. I don't think that criticising Israel and her policies makes you an anti-semite, nor does defending the right of people who are anti-semites to preach their ideas.

...
Really?
http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/IckeBackgrounder.htm

...

The following year Icke brought out another book, "...and the truth shall set you free." This one, however, was self-published, as its content was so objectionable that his publisher refused to have it printed. And small wonder. The book repeated Icke's previous claims that the Protocols were true, and went on to state: "I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."2

In this book, Icke went even further. He began to flirt explicitly with Holocaust denial, saying "why do we play a part in suppressing alternative information to the official line of the Second World War? How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history."3 He also denounced the Nuremberg Trials as "a farce" and "a calculated exercise in revenge and manipulation."4
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
MrSnowman said:
...

I also don't think he's anti-semitic per se. An extreme exponent of free speech perhaps; an idea which I can find no fault with in principal. He is a shining example of what happens when you allow people to air their opinions (and also in relation to holocaust deniers), whatever you may feel about them, in order to let people draw their own conclusions about how valid or bonkers they consider people to be. State sanctioned punishment for having an idea or opinion is worse than letting people have their vile opinions in the first place. I think the anti-semitic thing has its basis in someone interpreting his 'space lizards' to mean Jewish people, and that criticism stuck. I don't think that criticising Israel and her policies makes you an anti-semite, nor does defending the right of people who are anti-semites to preach their ideas.

...
Really?
http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/IckeBackgrounder.htm

...

The following year Icke brought out another book, "...and the truth shall set you free." This one, however, was self-published, as its content was so objectionable that his publisher refused to have it printed. And small wonder. The book repeated Icke's previous claims that the Protocols were true, and went on to state: "I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."2

In this book, Icke went even further. He began to flirt explicitly with Holocaust denial, saying "why do we play a part in suppressing alternative information to the official line of the Second World War? How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history."3 He also denounced the Nuremberg Trials as "a farce" and "a calculated exercise in revenge and manipulation."4

Well, that first paragraph is not an indication of anti-semitism. He refers to the idea of some kind of secret cabal that betrayed its own people. Would criticising extremist Muslim or Christian groups on the basis that they are willing to sacrifice non-extremist Muslims or Christians for their own nefarious means brand you anti-Muslim of anti-Christian?

The second paragraph in my mind is an expression of contempt for those who would seek to persecute people for holding such views, no matter how tasteless. Nowhere does it actually indicate that this is what he actually thinks. The closing sentences re. the Nuremberg trials seem to be "pick-quoted". I would have thought that this was some kind of lead-on from his idea that it should have been this mysterious 'cabal' that should have been on trial as opposed to the perpetrators of the war crimes, much in the way that you could suggest that although Saddam Hussein is on trial, it was the US that originally funded and armed him, so shouldn't the people involved there be on trial? It'd be interesting to see the source of that part in its entirety rather than very select quotes.

Actually, it'd be interesting to read the whole lot. but to be honest, the concept of multi-dimensional space lizards mixed in with politics and conspiracy would probably make my head hurt.
 
Actually - I would really be interested whether Icke's claim that the Rotschilds financed Hitler's war industry - thus indirectly aiding in the Holocaust - has any truth in it. My personal opinion is that businessmen will do any misdeed imagineable to increase their profits. What about this example from 2004:

Israeli banks profit from Holocaust
By Jonathan Cook in Jerusalem

Investigations by the Israeli parliament have dug up disturbing evidence that Israel has been profiting for decades from vast sums invested in local banks by European Jews who died in the Nazi death camps.

And even now the banks are delaying returning the money to their heirs.

But unlike a similar scandal that hit European banks in the mid-90s, almost no pressure is being brought to bear on the Israeli banks by the Israeli government or by Jewish reparation organisations representing Holocaust families, who were the main critics of the European banks.

Yes, Icke's way of analyzing relationships between families, businesses and old-boy's networks is IMHO a valid way of analyzing power networks (see: the cordial relationships between the Bushes and the Bin-Ladens). But it's a pity that his imagination runs away with him.
 
But as The Protocols... are fake, one has to wonder how much of Icke's other ideas are based on falsehoods. Such stuff is no more based in reality than something like Mein Kampf - so whilst I agree that surpression of any ideas and questions (no matter how distasteful they may be) is never a good thing, Icke and others should at least base their opinions on real documents which express some sort of coherency. Okay, his ideas in general are loony-tunes, but at the same time if he's going to dabble in history and politics he should at least get his sources straight.
 
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