Dead Tibetans In WW2 Berlin?

FraterLibre

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#31
Good One

Very interesting and creepy article.
The dark energy lives on, doesn't it? We cannot shake it.
 

butterfly27

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#32
In my book Dean R Koontz ranks next to Stephen King. I'll look out for that one. Thanks Fraterlibre, you're a mine of information.
 

DerekH16

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#33
Fraterlibre - I'd read about Wewelsburg somewhere (a Duncan Kyle novel??) some years back, and then saw a UK tv doc. about the place - niches for the ashes of the 'chosen', an Arthurian round table, etc, totally weird..... Then I discovered it was within spitting distance of the part of Germany I've visited 3 times - roll on my next trip....

As for Tibetan SS troopers/mystics, a story I've encountered several times both in fiction and 'factual' works over the years... Nazism borrowed the 'best' bits from whatever suited them, so why not?....

(Off-thread - on a visit to Germany, the local bandmaster, reminiscing, said "When I was in the SS..." whereupon the visiting Scots took a collective step backwards. The innocent explanation? The SS demanded the best, and he was, as a teenager/early twenties, a damned good player with promise as a conductor - so he was given the 'option' of joining an SS band! Nice old bugger, sadly missed by his many friends....)
 
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#34
DerekH said:
Fraterlibre - I'd read about Wewelsburg somewhere (a Duncan Kyle novel??)...
Wewelsburg was also used as a setting in the second book of Phillip Kerr's excellent Bernie Gunther trilogy (March Violets, The Pale Criminal and A German Requiem) about a Policeman working in Nazi Germany.

Really good stuff and thoroughly recommended- shame he moved on to writing blockbusters.
 

FraterLibre

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#35
Regrets

One of the things I regret is my failure to visit Wewelsburg while in Germany for three a half years. We did tour untold number of castles, and even got to the tallest standing stone in Europe, which was broken in three by the Nazis when they tried to take it down and hide it, to keep it safe from Allied bombing. Seems it toppled and cracked. They re-erected it later using concrete to connect the three pieces. It's still impressive, standing about 22 feet high, but is situated in a farm field behind a new housing development. Soon kids will deface it I'm sure.

In any case, to have missed Wewelsburg is definitely a good reason to return sometime and check it out.

Susan - quite welcome. Lightning was one of Koontz's transition novels, written after he'd left science fiction but when he was more concerned about blending genres, so there is an intense science fiction and fantasy feel to many of the scenes, and in fact to the premise. Wild fun.

His more recent work is becoming very good indeed, as he focuses now more on character and allows them to lead where they will. He's definitely under rated, and to think such a superb writer came from writing formulaic Freudian thrillers... wow.
 

rynner2

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#36
and even got to the tallest standing stone in Europe, which was broken in three by the Nazis when they tried to take it down and hide it, to keep it safe from Allied bombing. Seems it toppled and cracked. They re-erected it later using concrete to connect the three pieces. It's still impressive, standing about 22 feet high, but is situated in a farm field behind a new housing development.

Slightly OT, but there was a bigger one in Brittany (20.3m!), but it was broken in prehistory: Grande Menhir Brise
 

FraterLibre

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#37
Big Phallic Stones

rynner - Yes, I've heard that, and in fact I probably should have said the biggest one still standing, or standing again, in Europe. Sorry.
 

FraterLibre

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#38
Pravda & It's Latest Truth

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rense.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Most Secret Service
Of The Third Reich
Anomalia.Ru
Translated by Dmitry Sudakov
9-14-2

Ukrainian workers found strange graves at a construction in one of the towns in the south of Ukraine. The graves were found at a depth of two or two and a half meters.
_
At first, they thought that it was an ancient Scythian graveyard. Then, someone saw a medallion of a German soldier in one of the coffins. The finding was a grave of German soldiers. However, when archeologists arrived to the site, they were shocked with what they saw. Some of the human skeletons in the grave had their spines sawn lengthwise. Some of them did not have heads, while others had skull trepanation. Other skeletons had little holes drilled in their cannon-bones. After that, there were tens of other graves found. They were all covered with lime and calcium chloride. Some of the human remains preserved the vestiges of chemical impact. Someone was trying to find a ìthird eyeî in the heads of several officers: their skulls were opened in several places.
_
Experts determined that the found graves were the vestiges of Ahnenerbeís activities. This was the most secret organization of the Third Reich. The people of the true Aryan race were its victims. Ahnenerbeís doctors believed that medical tests and experiments were supposed to eventually result in a new breed of a human being.
_
Scythian fields are not the only place where Nazi mystics performed their horrid tests. They were travelling all over the world. Ahnenerbe means ìAncestorsí Inheritance;î the organization appeared in 1933. After the establishment of Hitlerís regime in Germany, Ahnenerbe was entrusted with searching for anything dealing with spirit, traditions, and peculiar features of the Indo-German Nordic race. In 1937, the Ahnenerbe was incorporated into the SS. The study of the ancient German history was conducted with only one goal: to prove the superiority of the Aryan race within the scope of the Nazi race doctrine.
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First-class scientists took part in the research. They performed expeditions to Tibet, the Middle East, and Ukraine. When WWII started, research of ancient German culture was reduced. New projects were totally devoted to anthropological research, including infamous research in Dachau and Auschwitz.
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Ahnenerbe was founded by philosopher Friedrich Gilscher and Doctor German Hirt. It is interesting that professor Gilscher never became a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. He was in friendly relations with Jewish philosopher Martin Buber. In the beginning of 1940s, Hirt was appointed to the position of chairman of the Anatomic Institute in Strasbourg. The institute was working on the scientific substantiation of the race theory. In the summer of 1944, Hirt was ordered to destroy his laboratories. He did not manage to do that, so the allied troops found numerous beheaded corpses. Hirt disappeared afterwards. People say that he was seen in Chile and in Paraguay.
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Karl Maria Willigut was the most conspicuous person in the organization. He was known as an outstanding specialist in the field of black magic. He was called Himmlerís Rasputin due to his immense influence on Nazi high-ranking officials. His last name is translated as the ìgod of will.î According to mystical terminology, this is a synonym to a ìfallen angel.î Karl Willigut died in 1946; he was never called into criminal account for his activities.
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It is also worth mentioning that Ahnenerbe maintained contacts with Tibet. When Soviet troops entered Berlin in 1945, they were very surprised to find thousands of Tibetan corpses in SS uniforms.
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Ahnenerbeís members were all tall, muscular, blond men, like in all other Nazi services. They were supposed to be married in their twenties. Marriages could only be racially pure. Ahnenerbe was preoccupied with the same issues as the Soviet Institute of Human Brain. They tried to invent a psychotropic weapon there in order to obtain control over the human mind. Experiments and tests were performed on people. Ahnenerbe also dealt with the study of occultism, vivisection on people, espionage, invention of the arms of retaliation, and so on and so forth. By the end of the war, the Germans had nine scientific enterprises that were testing projects of ìflying disks.î Some scientists say that Ahnenerbe had a large base in Antarctica. There are rumors that this base still exists. According to other rumors, there is an underground city called New Berlin there with a two-million-strong population. The people of the underground city allegedly deal with genetic engineering and space exploration. Indirect proof of such a city is the fact that UFOs can often be seen around the South Pole. In 1976, the Japanese saw 19 round objects at once. They all came down on Antarctica from space and vanished from radar screens. Furthermore, scientists found several ownerless satellites in orbit around Earth.
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Crystal skulls were one of the most mysterious findings of the 20th century. The skulls were found in Central America during an expedition of the well-known English archaeologist Albert Mitchell. The skulls were delivered to a Brazilian museum. Ahnenerbe agents were detained after an attempt to rob the museum in 1943. They said during interrogations that they had been sent to South America with a special task: to obtain crystal skulls. The Nazis were hoping that Aryan ancestorsí knowledge would allow them to create a superman and place other people under their command. Some experts say that those crystal skulls were made in Atlantis. If this was really so, then it is clear why the SS was so interested in them. When the war was over, the majority of Ahnenerbe members disappeared without leaving a trace.
_
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http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/12/36496.html



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Anonymous

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#39
Re: Dead Tibetans in WW2 Berlin

Susan Bulmer said:
Apparently in the 19th century Sir Edward Bulwer Lytton wrote a satirical novel called "The Coming Race" about an underground city where the people used something called Vril power.
Which, I understand, is the source of the second half of the name of the popular liquefied-cow-drink Bovril, the first half coming from the latin bos meaning ox.
 
A

Anonymous

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#40
The Spear Of Destiny

Also found amongst the ruins was the fabled Spear Of Destiny.
Two books by Trevor Ravensroft have been written regarding the Spear that pierced Jesus's side, it is claimed whoever owns this spear will control the world, the US apparently have ownership of it although it resides in Europe (Switzeland i think). It was also the name of Kirk Brandons band after Theatre Of Hate split up. He looked a bit Aryan as it happens!
 

FraterLibre

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#41
Spear

Justin - Yes, the Spear of Destiny resides in a museum in Switzerland, I believe, but I'd never heard it was US owned. Rather doubt that, actually.

As for Bulwer-Lytton's novel, it has lent its notions to all manner of esoteric societies, it seems, not just to those fun-loving Nazi loons.

And yes, Airies, Aryan, I can see the conflation of terms; funny bit of over-heard conversation, indeed.
 

ElishevaBarsabe

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#43
Spook said:
...what appeared to be Tibetans in Nazi uniforms arranged in a circle.
Quite a while ago, I read a magazine article by a couple who claimed to have seen the pilots and crew of a landed UFO. They said that months after that sighting, they went to a travel lecture about Tibet, and immediately recognized some of the Tibetans as being the same type of people as the people from the UFO.

Put that one together with Nazi UFO research and the whisking away of bodies from the Roswell incident, and you really start speculating!
 
A

Anonymous

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#45
So THAT'S why China is so hot to dominate an otherwise useless territory.
T.Lobsang Rampa was always on about how China wanted Tibet as a good place to launch rockets and missiles from. Because, being up high, it gave them a head start.
 
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Anonymous

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#46
Everyone seems to forget the most obvious explanations for China's interest in Tibet in 1950: the Tibetans ill-defined links with Moscow (even during the period where Tibet was theoretically 'closed' to the outside world: the first British explorers to try and enter Tibet in the 19th C. mentioned Tibetans with Russian pet dogs in their reports), and China's long memory where being invaded and having peasants massacred by the thousand by Tibetans is concerned (16th-17th C. IIRC).
 

FraterLibre

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#47
Tibet Mysteries

For an entertaining and educational reading experience focused on Tibet, try The Skull Mantra or other mysteries by Eliot Pattison. They are murder mysteries with remarkable insight into a place and culture most of us can only dream of knowing.
 
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Anonymous

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#48
Something I've found in my researches... The Bon religion of Tibet uses the counter clock wise swasticka as a sign of religious significance as opposed the more common clockwise one that appears in Asia.

Possible link there?
 

Kondoru

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#49
I have a book, `Lhasa, the Open City` by Han Suyin, written in 1976 (I think) I found it in a job lot of the hokiest 70s New age paperbacks (regurgiatation of EvDs works, fake Indian Shame-mens, you name it) I often wonder what the original owner must have thought of it, because its a marvelous demystifying of Tibet and everything opposite to what my New Agers think and say about that nation.

It is an excellent book, written from a sympathetic Chinese viewpoint and has much to say (all carefully referenced, I may add) on a variety of subjects, including medicine, the role of women, magical practices, ectera.

(I laughed at her rather icy comments on the Potalas poor design, a hovel which is on the New seven wonders list...)

The only other books I have upon the `Land of snows` are Nicholai Roerich and Alexandria David Neels writings, both authors are well worth reading. (The chapter `Buddism in Tibet` in Roerichs `Shambhala` is very telling.)

I have a reference to the Tibetians in Berlin, but its late, wait untill the morning.

And if you get the chance, do see `Lost Horizon` read the book too. the Author did the screenplay and its educating to compare the two. But enjoy the movie....I didnt know Frank Lloyd Wright designed monasteries for the Tibetians??
 

OldTimeRadio

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#50
chatsubo~ said:
"of course, all this leads to the disturbing thought that the Holocaust was actually some form of mass human sacrifice."
Immediately after the War in 1945 British and American authorities posted the ruins of Western Germany and also West Berlin with thousands of carboard placards upon which were printed large:

"'GIVE ME 12 YEARS AND YOU WON'T RECOGNIZE GERMANY' - ADOLF HITLER, 1933."

The quotation was posted as IRONY.

But mightn't it have been the PLAN?

Gotterdammerung, right on schedule.
 

OldTimeRadio

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#51
The one question which doesn't seem to have ever been answered in this thread is the original one asked - DID Russian troops discover a circle of suicided Tibetan Nazis in the ruins of bombed-out Berlin?

If this story is TRUE, then there should be at least SOME mention in STANDARD ACADEMIC WORLD WAR TWO HISTORY (especially now that political restraints and worse no longer limit Russian historians) and not merely in "spooky Nazis" articles, "Nazi UFO" books and on "Hollow Earth" websites. I think it's fairly obvious by this time that authors writing within these three categories copy from each other and cite each other for reference and documentation.
 

Kondoru

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#52
I think what I heard were the bodies (and live people) were orientals with no papers...could have been Japanese for all they knew
 

AlchoPwn

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#53
On the issue of the Tibetans serving in the Wehrmacht, yes they did. The crucial piece of information that is generally lost is that they were Kalmycks. Now the Kalmycks had an enclave in the Northern Caucuses south of what was Stalingrad, and is now Volgograd. The Kalmycks are originally of Tibetan stock and practice Tibetan Buddhism.

Here is some info about the Republic of Kalmyckia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmykia

The crucial information is that the unit joined the Wehrmacht in 1942, under Von Manstein when he was trying to secure the Baku oil fields for Hitler. Having joined the Nazis at their high water mark, the Kalmücken Kavallerie Korps was forced to retreat with the Wehrmacht as well, and their collaboration caused Stalin to mark the entire Kalmyck population as collaborators and deport them to Siberia, where, like most deported populations, they died like flies.

While there is no direct evidence to suggest that the Kalmücken Kavallerie Korps
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=123668
were in Berlin in any official capacity, it is quite possible that the bodies found in Berlin were a cadre of survivors or possibly deserters, though given their suicide, the latter seems unlikely. Suicide was all the rage in 1945 Berlin btw. We know that the Russian forces that discovered them identified them as Tibetans, and Kalmycks definitely look similar to Tibetans, and are of the same original ancestry.

I have read about the "Dead Tibetans in Berlin" in a number of sources relating to Agharti and Shamballah, and even seen them described as wearing SS uniforms, but there is nothing to suggest that is true, and is likely an embellishment. It is not impossible that elements of the KKK (LOL) were rolled into an existing SS division and the officers were given uniforms, but it seems unlikely without documentation. Admittedly the Nazi filing system was a bit of a shambles in 1945, especially because someone kept burning everything.

As to any links with the Ahnenerbe, there are none with the Kalmücken Kavallerie Korps. The Ahnenerbe did send Ernst Schäfer at the head of an expedition into Tibet searching for racial evidence of Aryans and to seek out mysteries such as Shamballah. This of course links in to the Nazi fascination with Bulwer-Lytton's work "The Coming Race", wherein the Shamballans are a race of subterraneans whose aim is ultimately to purify the surface world and unify it under their spiritual rule, (possibly peacefully, probably not). This is where all the Thule Society and Vril Society elements of Nazism begin to muddy the waters and create all the Nazi Occultism stories. That elements of the Nazi hierarchy were deeply into occultism of this nature is without doubt. That their nation and cause profited by their interest in the subject is highly unlikely, as considerable resources were wasted on it without any success.
 
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chicorea

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#56
There is a horrifying chapter on "The Painted Bird" about the Kalmüchen Kavallerie Korps.
 

AgProv

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#58
Wasn't there the famous case of a PoW taken prisoner in Normandy in 1944, from a second-or-third echelon German unit that was over-run, and it was impossible to interrogate him because nobody could work out his nationality or the language he spoke: all that was clear was that he was wearing German uniform, his pay-books had an obviously assumed name that might have begun as an unidentifiable foreign language that had been Germanised for convenience, and all the men he was captured with could say for sure that he'd arrived with a batch of ex-Russian PoW's who had agreed to sign up in the German army for better food and treatment. (It was a pioneer labour battalion, something low down the mililtary food chain). His mates had decided to be kind to him as somebody who didn't speak a word of any language they knew was of limited use, so they'd found him basic jobs to do and looked after him. A Russian military attaché was asked to talk to him, but drew a blank here as the prisoner din't speak or understand a word of Russian: the Red Army officer thought he might be from somewhere in Central Asia but said this man speaking no Russian at all was totally unusual, as Comrade Stalin wishes all peoples in the USSR to speak Russsian and wherever he was from, he should have learnt some. then a British officer with the Gurkha Rifles noted a similarity to his own men, and tried him in Gurkhali. Limited success: the mysteery man could understand a little Gurkhali, but said he wasn't a Gurkha: he was from Tibet. Next door to Nepal. Apparently he'd been working on an overland caravan across Asia, herding sheep, they'd crossed into what was then the USSR, and the men with the caravan had been pressed into the Red Army on pain of death... shipped West to fight the Germans he'd ended up in another bewilldiring place pointing a gun at people he had no idea why he was at war with, and had surrendered, as had the other men in his unit - who included other pressganged Tibetans who didn't speak a word of Russian and had no idea why they had got there, except that it involved duress and people pointing guns at them. He claimed to have been taken in by other Russians who'd agreed to change sides, followed them, and been issued a different uniform, followed by a long, long, train journey West.... (I've reconstructed all this from memory, so some details could be out).

Anyway. if one Tibetan is known to have ended up halfway round the world in a German Army uniform, why not others... and what if these Tibetans in German uniform were more clued up, realised there'd be no mercy if the Russians recaptured them, and had a joint suicide pact - not un-known among Russian, or USSR nationals, who realised in May '45 that they were doomed. Conversely - it could have been any of a number of Asian peoples from the former USSR, who changed uniforms for whatever reason, who decided to go of their own accord before the Red Army caught up with them. Their bodies were discovered and they were mistaken for Tibetan, which fits the "Nazi mysticism" narrative better....
 
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Jim

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#60
Never heard of the Wehrmacht doing this as the article claims but hey WW2 was crazy who knows. The Waffen SS began in mid - late 43 recruited basically anyone they could get. This included Ukrainians, Cossacks, Serbs, Russians that paradoxically the Nazi's were basically simultaneously exterminating. These troops (w the except of some Cossacks) were used in the rear, not at the front. This did help the free up more Germans for the front. These poor soldiers were caught in a no win situation between Hitler and Stalin.
 
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