• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Deepcut Serial Sentry Slotter

A

Anonymous

Guest
Did anyone else see the reporton the BBC about the suspicious deaths of four soldiers at Deepcut barracks?
Very strange details surrounding the alleged suicides, for example; how does one shoot oneself twice in the face from above?
One man had five rounds in his chest, which would be roughly consistant with an attempt to fire one round on Repetition while the change lever was set to Automatic, but had his rifle been fired at all? What position was the change lever in? Was the magazine checked for missing rounds?
In none of the cases were ballistics checks done on the spent rounds, or the weapons.
One of the men was said to have borrowed another man's rifle to go on a roaming patrol; highly irregular to say the least.
Anybody know anything else about this (anyone in Surrey,for example)?
 
yes, I heard that...

The barracks have said that the deaths were suicide... even though this ment that he had to shoot himslef twice in the head
Click to expand...

:confused: Do they really think we're gonna but it???
 
There's something very strange going on at Deepcut. Before someone is willing to shoot dead a sentry outside a barracks full of soldiers, they must be insane, have a lot at stake or be assured of protection.
It's not unusual for sioldiers to kill themselves, it happens in all walks of life, but this strikes me as very odd. I would like to know exactly where the murders were committed, ie. how far apart were the bodies found?
 
I found this here , as well:

Mystery of two soldiers shot dead on patrol

27 March 2002

TWO soldiers have been shot dead in mysterious circumstances within the space of six months while on patrol at an army barracks in Surrey.
James Collinson, 17, from Perth, was discovered with a single gunshot wound to the head while on guard duty at the Royal Logistics Corps HQ at Queen Elizabeth Barracks, Deepcut, Surrey, on Saturday.
His death followed that of Pte Geoff Gray, 17, from Hackney, east London, who was also found shot dead while on guard duty at the barracks on Sept 17 last year.

The Army has attempted to suggest privately that Pte Gray's killing was a suicide, even though the inquest into his death was told that he had been shot twice in the head and witnesses suggested he appeared to have been moved after the shooting.
Patrols sent out to look for Pte Gray after an officer reported hearing three shots fired in rapid succession also spoke of seeing someone running away and climbing the fence of the compound the dead man was guarding.
Michael Burgess, the Woking coroner, recorded an open verdict on the death of Pte Gray and specifically stated: 'I do not find that he took his own life.'
A corporal who was second in command of the guard on the night that Pte Gray died told the military police that the alarm was first sounded shortly after 1am.
In a witness statement, he said that when he investigated the report of the shooting he discovered that Pte Gray, who was guarding the officers' mess compound with two other soldiers, was missing.
The other two soldiers who had been guarding the officers' mess appeared to be very nervous, the corporal said. When he asked one of them if the safety catch on his rifle was engaged, the soldier replied: 'I'm ready. I'm ready to kill.'
The corporal then ordered searches of the perimeter fence around the officers' mess to try to find Pte Gray.
Three times he and other soldiers walked around the inside of the fence, he said:'At no time did we move more than an arm's length away from the fence,' the corporal said. When they failed to find Pte Gray more soldiers were called out.
At around 2am, some of the searchers reported hearing the fence rattle as if someone was climbing over it. Then someone was seen running off across a cricket pitch next to the officers' mess compound.
A short time afterwards, Pte Gray's body was found just inside the fence in an area which had already been searched three times without success.
'His weapon was lying about half a metre away from his feet,' the corporal said in his statement. 'I shouted man down. I could see two holes in his forehand and blood on the floor.'
The duty officer checked Pte Gray for a pulse and went to get help while the corporal secured the area around the body.

'The Army told us that Geoff committed suicide. It is just utter rubbish.'
Pete Gray's father, also called Geoff said that they had written to their MP asking him to help them get to the bottom of their son's death.
'Can you imagine holding an SA-80 rifle and shooting yourself on one side of the head and then moving the rifle and shooting yourself on the other side of the head?
There has to be an urgent inquiry into what is going on in that camp.'
The investigation into Pte Gray's death was carried out by the Royal Military Police who are not looking for anyone else in connection with their inquiries. Surrey Police said they have taken charge of the investigation of the second death and would be looking at the wider picture.
The Army said that once the inquest into Pte Collinson death had taken place there would be separate boards of inquiry into the two shootings.

With acknowledgements to The Daily Telegraph.
Click to expand...
 
once is a happenstance; twice is a coincidence; the third ti

Development in this story...

As posted in Ananova

Woman soldier found hanged

A young female soldier has been found hanged at her barracks.

Private Alison Croft, 22, was discovered hanging from a door at Dalton Barracks in Abingdon, Oxfordshire.

She was a chef with 4 General Support Regiment which has links with the Deepcut barracks in Surrey.

The barracks is currently at the centre of a police investigation into the deaths of four young soldiers there.

Pte Croft's regiment provides back-up and supplies for the Royal Logistics Corp and would have spent time at Deepcut - the Corps' headquarters and training centre.

A Thames Valley Police spokesman said: "She was found on Saturday. The death is not being treated as suspicious. The coroner has been informed and an inquest will be opened in three days time."

An MoD spokeswoman said they could not discuss rumours that Pte Croft was being bullied. She said: "The civilian police are conducting an investigation into the circumstances surrounding her death."

The Army took over the 70-year-old Dalton base from the RAF in 1993. It is currently undergoing a £34 million refurbishment. The base and quarters at nearby Abingdon and Wantage are home to some 1,500 single and married troops.

The Oxfordshire death comes just days after it emerged the body of one of the four Deepcut soldiers is to be exhumed as part of the investigation. Surrey Police have said a post mortem examination will be carried out the body of Private James Collinson, 17, from Perth, who was found dead in March with a single

gunshot wound to his head.

The Army initially insisted the deaths of all four soldiers at the headquarters of the Royal Logistics Corps were suicides. The claim has prompted accusations from the families and campaigners that bullying at the camp was being covered up and Labour MP for Hull North Kevin McNamara has called for a public inquiry.

Story filed: 10:01 Tuesday 1st October 2002
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it is a conspiracy but there is something very obviously STILL going badly wrong at that camp.
 
More on this story

As posted in Ananova

Army must learn from Deepcut deaths - police

The policeman leading an investigation into the deaths of four young soldiers at the same military barracks says the Army must learn lessons from the cases.

Police are investigating the death of four recruits at Deepcut Army Barracks in Surrey because of similarities in the cases and allegations of bullying at the base.

Speaking on BBC Scotland, Detective Chief Superintendent Craig Denholm, of Surrey CID, says he thinks the Army are keen to learn from this.

He said: "We've agreed a process to ensure that lessons that we identify throughout our investigations go into the Army in fast time to enable them to assess some of their processes and procedures.

"The primary focus of the investigation has been around what actually took place. But we are also looking at why and what the background was behind each of these four deaths."

Investigators are to exhume the body of Private James Collinson, who is buried in his home town of Perth, in order to perform a more detailed post-mortem examination.

Army officials said the 17-year-old recruit committed suicide after his body was found with a single gunshot wound to his head in March this year and a coroner returned an open verdict on the death.

But the soldier's family say they are not confident about the finding and police say a more detailed examination should have been carried out by a Home Office- approved pathologist.

Speaking on the same programme, Pte Collinson's father Jim said: "It has always been at the back of our minds - was there a proper post-mortem done on James? Did they look for every piece of evidence?

"And now that they re going ahead and exhuming him it's just one great relief, you know, at last we've got the opportunity now to look at every piece of evidence that could be there."

Story filed: 23:56 Tuesday 1st October 2002
Click to expand...
 
If anyone in the UK is here atm theres a programme on radio5 about it now......will see if theres audio archive of it


[edit]there will be here [/edit]
 
I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago that at least 40 young soldiers have been reported AWOL from the Deepcut barracks this year - no further details were forthcoming, and to be fair, AWOL could just mean "a few minutes late reporting for duty"... but it does seem very strange.

This is one case where I have to agree that there is a conspiracy of silence - whether that is due to bullying at the camp leading to desertion and suicide, or a serial killer at large, I honestly don't know.

Jane.
 
I have a son in the Army and this affair is discussed constantly among squaddies, the extent of my lad requesting that I cut out & send abroad to him any newspaper articles about it.

There seems to be a consensus about the cause- it's some kind of bullying/corruption problem, very deep-seated and hard to uncover.

A young man who'd been stationed there for a while also killed himself last month at another barracks.

I will ask Squaddie Son what he knows and report back.
He is friendly with several ex Deepcutters so might have inside info!
 
New Stuff Here

Police will take charge of investigations into the untimely deaths of soldiers under new rules prompted by four fatalities at an army base.
The move was recommended by the force investigating the incidents at the Deepcut Barracks in Surrey.

Under the guidance distributed by the Association of Chief Police Officers, forces are being encouraged to make a more thorough investigation of deaths at army camps.
Click to expand...
 
As posted in Ananova

Expert tells Deepcut families not to trust police

A forensics expert who investigated a series of mystery deaths at Deepcut barracks is warning the soldiers' families not to trust the police.

Independent ballistics expert Frank Swann says he believed the police investigation barred him from carrying out vital tests.

He says officers are not "looking as hard as they ought to be" and police tried to place a gagging order on him.

Police are investigating the deaths of four young soldiers all found shot dead while on guard duty at the Royal Logistics Corps HQ at the Surrey base.

The deaths were initially considered suicides but Mr Swann says his tests in two of the shootings proved the youngsters were killed by someone else. He launched a public attack on the police investigation on a memorial website for one of the soldiers.

"These are very hard words for me to write, but I must write them, whatever the implications," he wrote.

"If my experience is anything to go by, do NOT trust certain members of the Surrey Police or the Military... I shall of course continue, but with restricted access to what YOU need to know."

Mr Swann became involved in the Deepcut controversy when he was commissioned by BBC Scotland's Frontline programme to study the deaths.

He says he was staggered that forensics at Surrey police disagreed with his findings "without conducting any tests whatsoever".

But a spokeswoman for the force said: "Surrey Police is in the process of employing a second expert to consider the evidence to date. Frank Swann's conclusions will form part of any final report at the conclusion of this investigation."

Story filed: 02:07 Sunday 27th October 2002
Click to expand...
 
Anyone near the radio midday till 2 today 29/10/02 on Radio 2, I think they are discussing 4 mysterious non-combat related armed forces deaths (possibly deepcut) and the investigation by the families, as part of the Jimmy Young programme.
 
Sorry peeps, I asked my soldier son about Deepcut and his reply leads me to believe that he is not allowed to discuss it outside the Loop!

I am disappointed yet not surprised.
 
As posted in Ananova

Detectives attempt 'psycho' profiling on Deepcut deaths

Detectives investigating the four Deepcut deaths are to employ psychological profiling to assess each soldier's state of mind.

They will also use 3D-imaging to reconstruct the last known movement of the soldiers leading up to their deaths at the Surrey barracks in a bid to uncover new leads.

But as the families of the four campaigned for an immediate public inquiry, John Cooper, the barrister representing them, rejected the latest police move as little more than a "trendy" gimmick more suited to a BBC drama.

Detectives from Surrey Police are looking into the deaths of 17-year-old Privates Geoff Gray, from Hackney, east London, who died last year, and James Collinson, from Perth, Scotland.

They are also investigating the 1995 death of Pte Cheryl James, 18, from Llangollen, north Wales, and Pte Sean Benton, 20, from Hastings, East Sussex.

Their families have refused to accept a theory that all four soldiers committed suicide at the Surrey base's Royal Logistic Corps HQ using their own rifles.

The families have accused the Army of a cover up.

A spokesman for Surrey Police tonight confirmed: "Psychological profiling will be conducted to assess the state of mind of the four soldiers to see whether they might have been likely to take their own lives or suggest if that was very much out of the question.

"We are also employing a 3D virtual reconstruction company to reconstruct all of the event to explain and demonstrate what happened."

Story filed: 19:48 Tuesday 29th October 2002
Click to expand...
 
Anyone else following this news item may be interested in the documentary on Channel 5 Monday 26th November at 7:30pm on the deaths at deepcut.

Again asks the (not unreasonable) question how is death following two gunshot wounds to the head possibly classed as a suicide.
 
Panorama are doing a show on it

The cases of four soldiers who were found dead at an army barracks in Surrey were probably suicide, according to a Home Office pathologist.
Privates Sean Benton, Cheryl James, Geoff Gray, and James Collinson died from gunshot wounds while on sentry duty at the Deepcut barracks in Surrey.

The army said all four cases were suicide, but some of their parents disagree and have been calling for a public inquiry into their deaths.

However BBC One's Panorama programme on Sunday will reveal that the manners of the deaths were consistent with suicide.

Self-inflicted


The programme was given exclusive access to the photographs of Sean Benton's body which were taken at the scene of his death.

They were studied by a Home Office pathologist Dr Richard Shepherd and a ballistics expert, who both came up with the same conclusion - the evidence is consistent with suicide.

Dr Richard Shepherd said: "Five shots is unusual but it doesn't mean that it's not suicide and we can in this particular case explain all these injuries as self inflicted."

The parents of Private Geoff Gray also refuse to believe that he took his own life, saying that he had been happy on the night of his death.

His girlfriend had spoken to him that evening and described him as his "normal, happy self" .
Click to expand...
 
"Five shots is unusual but it doesn't mean that it's not suicide and we can in this particular case explain all these injuries as self inflicted."

The parents of Private Geoff Gray also refuse to believe that he took his own life, saying that he had been happy on the night of his death.

His girlfriend had spoken to him that evening and described him as his "normal, happy self" .
Click to expand...
This is Panorama?
It sounds more like some black comedy drama.

How (and why) does a 'happy' guy shoot himself FIVE times? :confused: :eek!!!!:
 
It was said in the channel 5 documentary that one of the recruits was actually talking to his father from his mobile when his father heard a bang and then silence.This was after his son had told him he would call back in a couple of hours so that he could have a chat with his mother who was out at the time.

The deaths are suspicious,the coroner recording open verdicts even saying that suicide was not the cause of some(sorry didn't take notes as to which case this was).There were no ballistics checks done to see if the bullets were from the deceased's weapon.There were also allegedly falsified logs,one of the recruits uniforms was burnt within 24 hours,a search party failed to see one body after 2 complete perimeter seraches and then found it in full view just 30 inches from the perimeter fence the 3rd time.

of course there doesn't have to be any kind of conspiracy,but the army investigations smacked of gross incompetence and the sooner the police investigate this aspect the better
 
rynner said:
This is Panorama?
It sounds more like some black comedy drama.

How (and why) does a 'happy' guy shoot himself FIVE times? :confused: :eek!!!!:
Click to expand...
Does anyone know what weapon was used? SA-80? I guess that an automatic weapon might be able to discharge multiple rounds while the victim is still depressing the trigger. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. :confused:
 
Fortis said:
Does anyone know what weapon was used? SA-80? I guess that an automatic weapon might be able to discharge multiple rounds while the victim is still depressing the trigger. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes, if the SA-80 is on automatic it will fire for as long as the trigger is held; that's what 'automatic' means with regard to firearms.
If there is a conspiracy at all, it's probably restricted to the NCOs and (possibly) the OC of the base.
 
So does that sound like a plausible explanation for the suicides that shot themselves several times in the head? (Bearing in mind that this is one of the factors that make the general public doubt the suicide hypothesis.)
 
Two things and one is nit-picking: did the creator of this thread mean "Slaughter" as in people being brutally killed, possibly in job lots? Because "Slotter" is a person who fits things in slots.

The other is: does anyone think that this is actually a government operation or is the concensus that the government is simply covering things up? Because from my POV, the military is an arm of the government and as long as the government is feeding information to (or withholding information from) the media, this is definitively a coverup at higher levels than the base personnel no matter what their rank.
 
I saw the Panorama Doc the other night and apart from being slightly boring and focussing on the obviously emotive reactions and theories of the relatives of the dead soldiers it wasn't very revealing.

It featured two independant home office pathologists who both concluded that all the deaths including those with multiple bullets were consistant with suicide (those with multiple wounds using their guns with the automatic option).

What came across from the inteviews with high ranking officers was that the army are trying play down the existance of an abusive and bullying regime with random beatings and severe sexual harrassment.

The police admitted making mistakes by letting the army deal with the early deaths, no ballistic tests were done, but would be paying great attention to the later deaths even going as far as to exume one of the bodies.

It seems to be a right mess with mistakes being made all over the shop.
 
Fallen Angel said:
Two things and one is nit-picking: did the creator of this thread mean "Slaughter" as in people being brutally killed, possibly in job lots? Because "Slotter" is a person who fits things in slots.

The other is: does anyone think that this is actually a government operation or is the concensus that the government is simply covering things up? Because from my POV, the military is an arm of the government and as long as the government is feeding information to (or withholding information from) the media, this is definitively a coverup at higher levels than the base personnel no matter what their rank.
Click to expand...

The government and the Army could rarely get on with each other long enough to have a cover up of something as localised as this. In this country the Army itself is a constant, while the government is an unfortunate inconvenience.

To 'slot' is to kill, especially by shooting.
 
Adrian Veidt said:
Fallen, Slotter is military slang. It means shooter
Click to expand...

You have the oddest slang terms on that side of the pond. Bizzare.

Okay, I stand corrected. Apologies to anyone offended and all that....
 
Maybe things have changed on guard duty. But Soldiers are not usually allowed out on guard with live amunition on there own unless its the front gate. And if the security requires live ammunition then usually even 2 or more there also. Roving patrol/Prowler guard etc should be in 2's at least. This whole deepcut thing is a big cover up and I just hope all the poor families of the victims keep pushing otherwise some piece of slime is going to get away with it and probably continue doing it... How come none of the Guard Commanders/Orderly Sergeant/Duty officers/Field officer of the day...etc have not had to explain these events? Guard Duty is about the most serious day to day thing most squaddies do, its all written down and done and dusted so I think there is alot not being told or explained.

PS In my experience (all 3rd hand but local) all the poor bastards who committed suicide on duty did it in the toilets (on guard, with the rifle, single bullet to the head) or jumped off radio masts/tall buildings.
 
Another One

Another Deepcut-associated death:Breaking News
An off-duty soldier has been shot dead in a block of flats in London.
Mario O'Brien Clarke, 25, was discovered with gunshot wounds at Woolpack House in Morning Lane, Hackney on Boxing Day.
His death is being investigated by London's black-on-black gun crime team, Operation Trident.
Mr Clarke was a private attached to the Royal Logistics Corps and was halfway through his training at Deepcut Barracks in Surrey.
Single gunshot
Police have stressed his death is not thought to be linked to Deepcut, where police have been investigating the suspicious deaths of four soldiers.
Mr Clarke's body was found at 1720 GMT on Boxing Day. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
His car was found near the scene.
A post mortem examination at Poplar mortuary on Friday established the cause of death as a single gunshot wound.
An inquest was opened and adjourned.
Click to expand...
That place is getting to be like Marconi!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top