Did The Spirits Tell Me Who Jack The Ripper Was?

MorningAngel

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Poor spelling and grammar don't generally worry me as long as the meaning is clear. Some perfectly bright people just can't do it.
We can always ask them!

That's unless it's by someone who's trying to lecture me or who thinks they're bloody IT.
So often you have no idea what they are going on about though.
 

Ringo

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I garble letters all the time while typing. Not because I'm dyslexic but because I'm terrible at typing. I never spot them when I preview my posts, only once it's been posted and others have seen them.
 

MorningAngel

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I garble letters all the time while typing. Not because I'm dyslexic but because I'm terrible at typing. I never spot them when I preview my posts, only once it's been posted and others have seen them.
Sometimes I don’t know if I’ve written it wrong or if it has changed it behind me to make me look like an idiot. They do say the best proof reading is done after you press send. Twitter drives me mad because you can’t edit it. You either have to leave it or delete it.
 

Sabresonic

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I'm slightly dyslexic and get angry when I can't spell stuff.
 

hunck

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I'm not a magician. Or am I?

I'm also not a member. Or am I?

Also this isn't magic. Or is it?
Is there anyone doing your sort of show in the UK that you'd recommend? It's probably a small circle doing this sort of stuff & I'm thinking you'd know of them if there are any..
 

Ringo

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Is there anyone doing your sort of show in the UK that you'd recommend? It's probably a small circle doing this sort of stuff & I'm thinking you'd know of them if there are any..
Not really tbh. Paul Voodini did stuff in Whitechapel based on JTR but now he just lectures.There is an "experience" called Seance run by a company called Darkfield but it's not a mentalism show - it's an interactive experience designed to make you s*** your pants.

A few magicians dabble around Halloween time but they just do a series of "spooky" magic tricks.

There is a place I wanted to visit but I can't remember where it was. It's a proper seance show but it only happens once or twice a year. I'll PM you if I find it.
 

hunck

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Not really tbh. Paul Voodini did stuff in Whitechapel based on JTR but now he just lectures.There is an "experience" called Seance run by a company called Darkfield but it's not a mentalism show - it's an interactive experience designed to make you s*** your pants.

A few magicians dabble around Halloween time but they just do a series of "spooky" magic tricks.

There is a place I wanted to visit but I can't remember where it was. It's a proper seance show but it only happens once or twice a year. I'll PM you if I find it.
Thanks. I'd love to go to one of your shows.
 

Ringo

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what do you mean? :) @Ringo
It gets a little complicated but here goes. There are 3 types of Seance Shows or Theatrical Seance.

1. There are "spooky" magic shows called seances but they are just a string of magic tricks with a spooky or horror theme, performed by a magician who is in the little known magic category of "Bizarre". (I'm not being sarcastic, the genre is actualy called that). They buy ready-made, out of the box tricks with themes like JTR Seance or The Titanic seance which include loads of scary, old looking props and photographs and expensive, aged paraphernalia. These guys are usually hobbyists who perform mostly for other bizarre magicians as there isn't really a big market for this stuff. They learn the script and then perform it. It takes very little preparation or skill and can come off as either fun or sick.

EDIT: The can sometimes get stuck in the details of a trick and spend years expanding it, reading variations, elaborations and twists but in the end, it's more for the arts sake than anything else. The audience will have stopped listening long before that. It's more for other bizarrists to nod sagely.

2. Then there are "seance" experiences which is a bit like an amusement ride. They are operated by companies using technology and basically any summer-job kid can press that start button and hand out cloakroom tickets. A bit like an Escape room experience, you turn up as agroup and are ushered into your "experience" room. They press go and off it goes. Fun but you are passive to the experience.

3. Then there are proper "seance" shows or "theatrical seances" where it seems so real. The mentalist or performer is so believable, the room so innocuous, the psychology so powerful that things "happen by themselves". (They don't really but that's how you remember it). This takes years and years of experience, refinement, research and development, trial and error, script writing, costume design, prop building, people skills, acting, music etc etc. It is all scripted and timed to the second but you will never know as it seems 100% real and relaxed. The idea is to co-erce a "genuine" response from the audience and to make people believe they have witnessed real life paranormal phenomena (even when they know they have bought a ticket to a show). You destroy the line between reality and fiction.

All of these are "theatrical" performances - as in, they would be marketed as shows rather than trying to be passed off as a genuine psychic night or a spiritualist evening. People attending know that it is fiction and choose to buy into it. The 3rd kind is what I would call a "proper" seance show (and what I try to do).

EDIT: One final thing - this from the Wiki page about Theatrical Seance explains nicely the difference between a theatrical seance (what Mentalists do) and Spiritualist Seances (what mediums do):

Theatrical séances are not intended to be "real" séances and should only be seen as entertainment; hence the adjective, theatrical. According to Houdini, if the séance leader is honest and admits his trickery, he is a theatrical performer; if not, he is a charlatan and a fraud. Ethically, a paying audience should be notified beforehand that they will be experiencing a work of interactive theater rather than an actual Spiritualist seance. Once the audience is inside the performance space, however, the performer's primary responsibility is to create a convincingly realistic theatrical experience, just as in other forms of theater. Additionally, the ambiguity of whether every manifestation is the result of deception or not may be part of the enjoyment that a theatrical seance provides.
 
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IbisNibs

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A few weeks later I asked them how the holiday went, and they paled and said that they'd told nobody about the holiday for fear that a relative would try to join them on it...
Gosh! Having a relative try to be on holiday with you? How horrible! :pop:

I'm slightly dyslexic and get angry when I can't spell stuff.
My spelling has gone downhill fast in the last 20 years, so here's what I do; maybe you will find it helpful:
When I see a red line under a word I've typed, I copy the word, paste it into the search window of another tab/window, and google usually says, "did you mean . . .blah, blah, blah." Then I copy the word I need, with google's correct spelling, and paste it back into my post. As long as you're not red/green color blind as well as dyslexic, you should be able to use it, if you wish. :)
The drawback is that it doesn't help at all when I'm trying to do a crossword puzzle.
 

catseye

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I'm glad you said that about your spelling going downhill Ibis. I used to be a cracking speller, but recently I've started not being able to spell as well, transposing letters and things too (but I'm a fast touch typist, so sometimes it's my brain going faster than my fingers). I thought it was just me regressing with age!
 

Rushfan62

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From Wikipedia:

Robert Milne, recently retired from the Metropolitan Police Directorate of Forensic Services, presented a paper to the International Association for Identification Conference in 2011 and to the Chartered Society of Forensic Sciences in 2014, suggesting Chapman (Kłosowski) as the most likely Ripper. Based on his expertise, review of investigation documents, and the use of geographical profiling software, he was convinced that the killer lived in the area of the murders. Chapman, also Frederick Aberline's top suspect, fit that bill accurately. Milne pointed out that Chapman "a now known serial poisoner of women" ... "would go out carrying a small bag, not coming home until 4:30 a.m.", according to his estranged wife. In his 2014 paper, Milne also discussed a 1902 (or 1901) murder victim, Mary Ann Austin, who had described a client before her death. (Austin was murdered with ten wounds to her abdomen at Annie Chapman's former home, Crossingham's Lodging House, at 35, Dorset Street.) According to Milne, "a Russian 5ft 7 inches tall with a black moustache [who] visited Mary and in the course of having sex stabbed her and tried to cut out her uterus".[17][18] [19]
 

Ascalon

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Sorry, but this is a sticking point for me: The Abberline suspect's name was Severin Antoniovich Klosowski, aka George Chapman.

No one refers to him as George Klosowski.

Most especially, no one calls him Kloskowski.

I know Google might return results on that spelling, but in none of the books or reference materials, many of which cite police records of the time, as well as the later works by McNaughton, and more, have I ever seen the spelling Kloskowski used in reference to the suspect who also used the name George Chapman.

So for something as specific as "George Kloskowski" to be made in an apparent blind reference, it does come into the realm of coincidence.

It is a well known tactic of medium and so-called psychic operators to gather information from chat and conversations among all attendees, and there are almost always plants for this specifically. A far more likely explanation in this case is that the mother had blabbed something on a previous visit, in relation to the OP and her habit of bringing true crime material to her father. JTR, and some of the wilder theories in particular, are filler fodder for such publications, particularly the UK ones.

I first came across the case in one such publication, with its assertions of "obvious satanic influences", in about 1986!

Had the father continually mentioned his favourite suspect as "George Kloskowski" while alive, then the production of that name in inquiry at the seance would have been most impressive. As it is, it smacks more of slapdash research in response to a cue picked up as part of observed chatter to support so-called insights.

Just to add, in later life, after retiring from the Met police and having a successful career in private security and as a Pinkerton Detective, Abberline would say that he believed he never had hold of the killer. The longer he considered it, the less he liked Klosowski as a suspect. Later work on serial killers and their habits and profiles would support this position.
 

fizzy55

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It's true, it was only ever part of a series of coincidences that felt odd. Your explanation is as possible as any. Apart from the theory that my mum would have told the medium about my dads crime magazines and me taking them to him and what not. They split up around the time I was born and she wasn't much involved with my relationship with him after that, nor was she aware of the magazines as far as I know. She will likely have talked about me to the medium, but the subject of my dad would be one that she avoided.
As for the name, I don't know. The names came up that day and they later came together with this one man who was around at the time of the murders and that's all I can say.
It's odd, like you say, that the table spelled George Kloskowski, rather than George Chapman or Severin Kloskowski. Can we, or anybody know, for sure though, that he never in his lifetime used those two names together to identify himself? Likely without the K of course.
The extra K could mean that it's all a lot of tosh, or it could be down to my fathers bad spelling.
I agree with what you say that it likely all falls in to the realm of coincidence and nothing more, but I like to believe there's always that intriguing tiny possibility that it could be more and it's also likely I'll never know for definite. The possibility is enough for me.
In regards to Abberline, it did feel to me that on researching suspects, a lot of publications quoted Abberline or claimed him to have suspected quite a few of them to be the ripper. Surely he couldn't have suspected so many people, only to say later on that he felt that he never had hold of him! Looking so far back into history can feel a bit murky and I just want to try and keep an open mind.
I take your points though. And I want people to give me their views and they certainly don't all have to agree, that is after all what I was asking, is this something or is this nothing?
All I know is that I had an odd experience. It still feels odd, but I can't claim any more than that.
 

fizzy55

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There is one other possibility in regards to the K. This all happened 6 years or so ago and the name stuck in my head as I searched for it so much over the weeks that followed. It stayed in the back of my mind over the following years although I didn't much think about it. It was a very similar surname to a friend I had at school which made it easier to remember. Her surname had a K. It is possible that over the years I have subconciously added the K because of the similarity. The K is how I remember it now though and its how the name was spelt as far as I can remember and I could never say for certain. It's just another possibility.
 

fizzy55

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It's difficult as I wanted to try and keep things as simple as I could in the telling, and not add any more ifs and buts and coincidences into events that already have so many ifs and buts and coincidences but in telling everything I have to. And there is more to the story, unrelated to the ripper naming but related to my dad and more coincidence in the timeline that got me here and wondering, if that makes sense.
 

Sollywos

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And there is more to the story, unrelated to the ripper naming but related to my dad and more coincidence in the timeline that got me here and wondering, if that makes sense.
In my familly coincidences were noted, marvelled over and then shrugged off as 'just one of those things'. As I grew up I wondered if there could be more to them than that and at various times have read up on the matter trying to keep a balanced view, just as most folk on this forum seem to do.

It can certainly at times feel like you are getting communication from beyond, however untangling wishful thinking from that feeling can still leave an enigma.

It's when you get loads of coincidences all relating to the same thing that intrigue me the most. I had a big event in my life that attracted lots of synchronicities over many months and even years afterwards. Trying to be objective about it isn't straightforward. It certainly feels like there is a whole unseen web of communication but that's just the minds way of imposing some sort of order and meaning onto the randomness of life, or is it? mmmm

I've very much enjoyed reading your account and all the replies it's attracted fizzy55, I'd be interested to read more. :)

A few years back to satisfy my curiosity I went to one of those psychic readings events. I arrived with an open mind and left with a sceptics hat pulled firmly down over my ears. I'd picked it up to put on right from the off when he conveniently arrived late and his excuse was not quite plausible. Good grief I'd earwigged enough from the conversations around me to give some 'good' messages!

I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say it can't be true based on this one experience but couldnt believe how easily people were accepting half baked messages which they then helped to finish cooking! Bless them they so wanted the comfort and who am I to gainsay that? Besides one of those messages might, just might, have been genuine.

Sollywos x
 

fizzy55

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Yes. I once went to a spiritualist church too and came out with the same hat. It was very disapointing. I think that some who go to mediums for comfort aren't looking for anything but that and they wont question too much, but when someone goes looking for real proof of something else out there, they often come out with more questions and uncertainty than they had on going in!
I wish the spirit world, if one does exist, would stop being so cryptic! :D
I have always been envious when people claim to have seen full bodied apparitions of their loved ones that have passed over. Because they KNOW now, don't they? Seeing it with their own eyes must change everything.
Although if I did ever see something, people would claim that I must have hallucinated it all, or that I must have been overtired and dreamt it.
I'd have to acknowledge the possibility and then I'd just find myself back at square one with the uncertainty, anyway.
 
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