• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Microchip / RFID Implants: Issues, Concerns & Ramifications

Techybloke said:
ah Heckler
But I wish not to be found in a burned out car mate :shock:
.
Click to expand...

Ooookay ;)

But from a hypothetical point of view I would say Money was a possible driver.

If all these things get implemented we would be lucky to get thro a week without infringing on some small law .
On the spot fines straight from your bank are a runner for speeding etc.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, well again that would require constant monitoring of every single person 24/7 which would still require a heck of an infrastructure, the current infrastructure for parking tickets and congestion charges in London groans under the pressure, this is an expontentially larger proposition.

Having said that it could be the start of a world goverment using technology to control its subjects.
Click to expand...

Er no. :nooo:

As a system for manageing those wha are seen to be a risk to the government it has potential, you would know precisely where an individual was at any given time and know who was meeting with whom and where.

However as an excercise in mass population control, no, I don't think it's a flier for the reasons mentioned earlier, the government doesn't care enough about you to be bothered what you do. Even you TB ;)
 
Sometimes you have to notice what is going on in the backgound and speak up.

The Germans did not say a word when all the Jews Started disapearing but the majority of them Knew it was wrong.

If you let them get the infrastructures in place they have the oppotunity to use the hardware and software without anyones consent.

They have already started big time with speed cameras.

The passports will be next
Then ID cards

Before you know it and its too late to stop it they will be able to track anyone if they wish too.

Is it ok for our government to have these powers ?
Did we agree it ????

All privacy is not ours to keep I maintain.
They will take it away if we let them.
 
Hmm - comparisons with what happened in Nazi Germany are crass, at best. And anyway, that regime could pretty much carry on doing what it wanted to do without any opposition - there was none, in teh form of an electorate or anything else.

So, the systems we have in place as far as checks and balances are concerned are entirely different. Claiming that speed cameras are the first wave is rather daft IMHO. Checking that someone doesn't break a speed limit in any given area is a very long way off from mass control of the population. Any attempts to make a connection between the two need alot of evidence to back up such claims, or they are simply the stuff of tinfoil hattery.

In order for such conspiracies to carry any convincing weight, you need to show a distinct pattern of evidence. Assuming things because you're making too much out of a lack of insight is not going to provide any sort of convincing argument. So far, all there seems to be is great leaps of highly speculative imagination based on some idea that the State is 'out to get you'.
 
I suppose sticking your head in a bucket of sand is as good away of keeping out of trouble as any other Jerry.

If YOU cannot see the implementation of a security based infrastructure in this country and the US then you are wearing the wrong glasses mate :D

When Tony gets back in - and he will !!!

Then the ID cards is right back on the agenda. Blunkett or no Blunkett.

Once they are in place your civil rights and privacy are open to scrutiny.

I,m not saying that good sheep will get any bother but who knows ?

;)
 
And these people run the company that make the chips

Carlyle Group Meets in Portugal to Sell Arms, Infrastructure in Iraq
author: Portugal News
Directors of The Carlyle Group - one of the world's largest armament
companies which is heavily involved in arms supplies to the Coalition
forces occupying Iraq - are planning on meeting in Lisbon in three
weeks time.

The Group is managed by a team of former US Government personnel
including its president Frank Carlucci, former deputy director of the
CIA before becoming Defense Secretary. His deputy is James Baker II,
who was Secretary of State under George Bush senior. Several high
profile former politicians are employed to represent the company
overseas, among them John Major, former British Prime Minister, along
with George Bush senior, one time CIA director before becoming US
President.

The financial assets of the Saudi Binladen Corporation (SBC) are also
managed by the Carlyle Group. The SBC is headed up by members of Osama
bin Laden's family, who played a principal role in helping George W.
Bush win petroleum concessions from Bahrain when he was head of the
Texan oil company, Harken Energy Corporation - a deal that was to make
the Bush family millions of dollars. Salem, Osama bin Laden's brother,
was represented on Harken's board of directors by his American agent,
James R. Bath.
 
24/02/2005
Holyrood Declares ID Cards a "Threat to Civil Liberties"
In what will be a major embarrassment to the Westminster Government, the Scottish Parliament today threw down the gauntlet on compulsory ID Cards. Holyrood passed a Green party motion that heavily criticised the government's plans.
Amongst other criticisms, the Parliament has agreed the proposals are "flawed on political, technical and financial grounds". The Scottish Parliament is also "concerned that the national identity card and database offer an ineffective response to problems of security and fraud and pose an unacceptable threat to civil liberties".

This is a huge rift between the Westminster and Holyrood administrations. It shows that the people of Scotland will not happily give up basic civil liberties.

Westminster MPs who want to keep their seats in the forthcoming general election should note carefully the will of the Scottish Parliament and, more importantly, the Scottish people.

The full text of the motion passed by the Parliament is available at the Scottish Parliament website
 
Dangers of ID Cards
Compulsion
The initial phase of the Government's current ID Card plan will be "voluntary". However they have made it clear that they want to move to compulsion rapidly. The draft Bill allows them to introduce compulsion without further primary legislation.
Even during the "voluntary" period it will be difficult to avoid having one. You will need to apply for the card in order to renew a driving licence or passport. So even during the "voluntary" phase the cards will be compulsory for around 80% of the UK population. The Home Affairs Committee said:

"To describe the first phase of the Government's proposals as 'voluntary' stretches the English language to breaking point."
Compulsion to Carry
Once the card becomes officially compulsory whilst you will be required to have one but will not - we are told - be required to carry it. That sounds fine in theory however I expect in practice compulsion to carry would occur within a few years.
The police will not initially be allowed to stop you and demand to see your ID. However you will be required to show it at a police station within a short period of time. That means if you are travelling and away from home for more than a few days you will effectively have to carry your identity card with you. In addition I expect police powers of stop and demand to increase with every increase in world tension
 
Dangers of ID Cards
Functionality creep
Initially the Identity Card database will be used to register identity and - possibly - employment status. This will change.
Once the incredibly expensive infrastructure is in place, do you really believe that future governments will not use it? They will see it as "common sense" and a "prudent use of public funds" to extend the functionality.

Even if "the database" only ever contains identity, its mere existence will allow other databases to be more easily amalgamated.

One proposed use of the cards is for access to medical services, so one of the first things to go on or be connected will be your entire medical history, available at the touch of a button.

The Police Superintendents' Association has already called for a national DNA database, it would make sense to link this to the National Identity Card, allowing countless people access to your DNA record, the most personal thing you have.
 
Techybloke said:
If YOU cannot see the implementation of a security based infrastructure in this country and the US then you are wearing the wrong glasses mate :D
Click to expand...

BUT WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?

The Germans did not say a word when all the Jews Started disapearing but the majority of them Knew it was wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes but we are not talking about the persecution of a race of people we are talking about some technology with no clear use at this stage for good or evil. SO WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?

Before you know it and its too late to stop it they will be able to track anyone if they wish too.
Click to expand...

BUT WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?

I suppose sticking your head in a bucket of sand is as good away of keeping out of trouble as any other Jerry.
Click to expand...

Presumably believing the government are out to get you, whoever you are is a more viable alternative?
 
Dangers of ID Cards
Centralisation
Some people welcome Identity Cards because they will make wallets and purses lighter. Most people today carry several different pieces of ID for different purposes. Wouldn't it be convenient to combine them all together?
Convenient, perhaps. Dangerous, certainly.

Almost all the current pieces of plastic are optional. Passport? Lots of people never leave the country. Driving licence? Not everyone drives. Credit cards? Many people don't - or can't - use them.

Today's ID is optional, you can choose for yourself whether the benefits justify the loss of privacy. You carry the cards you need as and when you need them. You consent to giving the relevant information. With 's ID Cards there will be no choice and no consent.
 
Techybloke said:
Heckler all that shouting will make you hoarse mate ;)
Click to expand...

Well at least you noticed. ;)

So any chance of a motive or shall we post a few more pages first?
 
Anyway Heckler

What ever reasons they have for implementing this cards and chips is secondary to the fact they are an infringment on civil rights and privacy.

It does not matter what grand scheme they have it is wrong to do it in the first place.

They cannot give me a valid reason to implement these things.

Nothing the government could say would change my mind anyway.

WE DON'T NEED ID CARDS AT ALL MATE thats the bottom line

So what ever reasons they have long term don't really matter
 
Techybloke said:
Anyway Heckler

What ever reasons they have for implementing this cards and chips is secondary to the fact they are an infringment on civil rights and privacy.

It does not matter what grand scheme they have it is wrong to do it in the first place.

They cannot give me a valid reason to implement these things.

Nothing the government could say would change my mind anyway.

WE DON'T NEED ID CARDS AT ALL MATE thats the bottom line

So what ever reasons they have long term don't really matter
Click to expand...

No it does matter, WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT ID CARDS AT ALL MATE that's the other thread, we are talking about imbedded chips and I have yet to see anything that passes as a reason for a conspiracy to create an infrastructure that monitors every person 24/7 using said technology.

It does not matter what grand scheme they have it is wrong to do it in the first place.
Click to expand...

You have yet to prove they are going to do anything?
 
Lets be honest Heckler

If i got a signed confession from Blair

you wouldnt believe me anyway.
 
Techybloke said:
Lets be honest Heckler

If i got a signed confession from Blair

you wouldnt believe me anyway.
Click to expand...

A signed confession of what though (that's the bit you haven't actually mentioned and kind of the thing that this being a conspiracy or not hinges on)?
 
I suppose your happy with your chip to come ?

happy to get in line with the rest of the sheep in this country ?
 
Techybloke said:
I suppose your happy with your chip to come ?

happy to get in line with the rest of the sheep in this country ?
Click to expand...

I'd be happy if you'd tell me why I shouldn't be happy?
 
There dosent have to be shadowy figures in grey to have a conspiracy you know ;)
 
Techybloke said:
There dosent have to be shadowy figures in grey to have a conspiracy you know ;)
Click to expand...

No, but there needs to be some compelling evidence - which you have yet to supply. Or (in some cases) a bunch of ill-informed people professing to know that the State is slowly out to get us...

Rabbiting on about what may possibly occur if ID cards ever see the light of day has nothing to do with your 'ideas' about chip implantation.

Also, you can cause great offence by implying that people who don't agree with you are 'sheep' or have their heads in the sand.

Seems to me TB that you're doing what you did in the 'dead microbiologists' thread - coming up with a poorly conceived idea and then not being able to back it up with any convincing arguments.
 
Tell you what Heckler

I,ll ask you a question and you answer as a person who isnt a politician.

Do you trust the Carlyle Group ?

:D
 
Techybloke said:
Tell you what Heckler

I,ll ask you a question and you answer as a person who isnt a politician.

Do you trust the Carlyle Group ?

:D
Click to expand...

I don't trust companies in general, most of the companies aren't (to my knowledge) out to get me in a conspiracy, what's your point?
 
The Carlyle Group are a company that specialises is ARMS selling etc.

They sell weapons etc to places like afghanistan etc etc.

They are also closely linked with the Saudi royal family
 
Carlyle also have their hands in security, technology, satelite surveilance etc etc
 
Techybloke said:
The Carlyle Group are a company that specialises is ARMS selling etc.

They sell weapons etc to places like afghanistan etc etc.

They are also closely linked with the Saudi royal family
Click to expand...

Sorry perhaps I am too sheep like to get your point, but Carlyle sell arms?

What does that have to do with the reason why the government would set up an infrastructure to monitor the whereabouts of every person in UK 24/7?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top