• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Do Lobsters Suffer When Boiled?


Very strange.

I eat things. That, in its turn, means I don't want them to die out and will try to preserve them. Given human history, do you imagine any creature on this planet we don't have a use for would survive? It's lucky for lobsters that we do eat them , or like many other species they'd be extinct.

Not cockroaches, obviously. We'll never wipe them out.
 
Well, you do need to eat. And you can't do it without killing something :)

plenty of people don't kill animals to eat - but I'm not one of them. But I don't need to eat lobster.
 
I've had a pet crayfish for more than two years, and she's definitely an animal, is sentient to some extent, and does not deserve to be dropped in boiling water; just because you're going to eat something doesn't mean it's okay to let it suffer and die in agony.

Just look at that little face and tell me she's a 'bug' :mad:

DSC00172.JPG
 
I've had a pet crayfish for more than two years, and she's definitely an animal, is sentient to some extent, and does not deserve to be dropped in boiling water; just because you're going to eat something doesn't mean it's okay to let it suffer and die in agony.

Just look at that little face and tell me she's a 'bug' :mad:

View attachment 41876
I love the colour.
 
I've had a pet crayfish for more than two years, and she's definitely an animal, is sentient to some extent, and does not deserve to be dropped in boiling water; just because you're going to eat something doesn't mean it's okay to let it suffer and die in agony.

Just look at that little face and tell me she's a 'bug' :mad:

View attachment 41876
Lambs are beautiful. But I still eat them.
 
Lambs are beautiful. But I still eat them.

The eating of them isn't my problem: despite being vegan myself, I don't have a problem with other people eating animals, but the least we can do is make sure that, prior to being eaten, they have a decent quality of life and aren't made to suffer.

Your lamb hopefully didn't suffer before being slaughtered. Dropping any live animal into boiling water is cruel, and even crustaceans almost certainly suffer, it shouldn't be allowed, they should be humanely killed before being cooked.
 
Most lobsters served in restaurants now are place from fresh into the freezer to die, idk if this is more or lest humane than boiling, just something i learned from a chef.
 
The eating of them isn't my problem: despite being vegan myself, I don't have a problem with other people eating animals, but the least we can do is make sure that, prior to being eaten, they have a decent quality of life and aren't made to suffer.
But they do. Largely because of rules introduced to allegedly 'prevent suffering'. Lambs, instead of being killed in a local slaughterhouse or even on the farm, are taken from their mothers, crammed alive into lorries with no space, shipped dozens or hundreds of miles in great distress, and then slaughtered, often these days by having their throats cut so they are halal. Sometimes they are even left parked in laybys while the lorry driver has his rest period. I've heard their bleating. It's not nice. I don't know of the rules for pigs or cows, mostly sheep farming round here.

Yer lobster has no apprehension, and it is dead in seconds.

For goodness sake save us from bleeding hearts.
 
But they do. Largely because of rules introduced to allegedly 'prevent suffering'. Lambs, instead of being killed in a local slaughterhouse or even on the farm they are taken from their mothers, crammed alive into lorries with no space, shipped dozens or hundreds of miles in great distress, and then slaughtered, often these days by having their throats cut so they are halal. Sometimes they are even left parked in laybys while the lorry driver has his rest period. I've heard their bleating. It's not nice. I don't know of the rules for pigs or cows, mostly shhep farming round here.

Yer lobster has no apprehension, and it is dead in seconds.

For goodness sake save us from bleeding hearts.
Don’t forget kosher, they also don’t stun animals in the slaughter process.
 
I've had a pet crayfish for more than two years, and she's definitely an animal, is sentient to some extent, and does not deserve to be dropped in boiling water; just because you're going to eat something doesn't mean it's okay to let it suffer and die in agony.

Just look at that little face and tell me she's a 'bug' :mad:

View attachment 41876
Isn't she an arachnoid?
 
I've had a pet crayfish for more than two years, and she's definitely an animal, is sentient to some extent, and does not deserve to be dropped in boiling water; just because you're going to eat something doesn't mean it's okay to let it suffer and die in agony.

Just look at that little face and tell me she's a 'bug' :mad:

View attachment 41876
Wonder if she makes that face every time you fill the kettle ?
 
But they do. Largely because of rules introduced to allegedly 'prevent suffering'. Lambs, instead of being killed in a local slaughterhouse or even on the farm, are taken from their mothers, crammed alive into lorries with no space, shipped dozens or hundreds of miles in great distress, and then slaughtered, often these days by having their throats cut so they are halal. Sometimes they are even left parked in laybys while the lorry driver has his rest period. I've heard their bleating. It's not nice. I don't know of the rules for pigs or cows, mostly sheep farming round here.

Yer lobster has no apprehension, and it is dead in seconds.

For goodness sake save us from bleeding hearts.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not a bleeding heart, I've lived in the country all my life, I've killed rabbits and chickens and plucked, gutted, skinned and cooked more animals than I can remember, but nothing and no-one will ever persuade me that dropping a live animal into boiling water is acceptable. It's barbaric and should be banned. The nature of their exoskeleton means heat takes a while to penetrate (they can give themselves burns by lying next to an unguarded heater because they don't 'feel' it until the shell is burnt through), so those few seconds are probably agonising. I just don't think causing unnecessary suffering is acceptable, where it can be avoided.

P.S; Case in point, despite being 'vegan' for five years, I had venison for Boxing Day last year; the deer was poached by 'K' and given to 'C', who had it in his freezer. I 've known both 'K' and 'C' for over 20 years. I know 'K' would not have shot the deer if he couldn't do it cleanly (we used to lamping together with my lurcher), and 'C' is a terrible cook, that venison would have been wasted if I hadn't cooked it and shared it. Some people might say I'm 'not a vegan', but I prefer to see it as 'not being an asshole'!

Isn't she an arachnoid?
Yes, crustaceans are arachnoids.
 
Last edited:
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not a bleeding heart, I've lived in the country all my life, I've killed rabbits and chickens and plucked, gutted, skinned and cooked more animals than I can remember, but nothing and no-one will ever persuade me that dropping a live animal into boiling water is acceptable. It's barbaric and should be banned. The nature of their exoskeleton means heat takes a while to penetrate (they can give themselves burns by lying next to an unguarded heater because they don't 'feel' it until the shell is burnt through), so those few seconds are probably agonising. I just don't think causing unnecessary suffering is acceptable, where it can be avoided.

P.S; Case in point, despite being 'vegan' for five years, I had venison for Boxing Day last year; the deer was poached by 'K' and given to 'C', who had it in his freezer. I 've known both 'K' and 'C' for over 20 years. I know 'K' would not have shot the deer if he couldn't do it cleanly (we used to lamping together with my lurcher), and 'C' is a terrible cook, that venison would have been wasted if I hadn't cooked it and shared it. Some people might say I'm 'not a vegan', but I prefer to see it as 'not being an asshole'!


Yes, crustaceans are arachnoids.
And on another tack :) - why do you suppose electrocution is less painful for the lobster? It's pretty damn painful for humans. The electric chair has always struck me as a particularly barbaric thing.

Has anyone made a comparative study? How long it takes to die, type of convulsions and so on? Since they claim to know lobsters can feel pain, they should be able to measure intensity and duration.

Of course, you'd have to kill a lot of lobsters in the tests.

Edit: Fluttermoth, I wasn't thinking about you specifically as a bleeding heart, that was aimed at the people who got the rules about slaughtering sheep changed. Which seem to have caused more suffering rather than less.
 
Last edited:
I have been avoiding
It's not an animal, unless in the broadest sense of animal vegetable mineral. It's a crustacean. And I repeat, I don't care. It's lunch.
And on that note, I have been avoiding every article about how very clever octupuses are, because they taste too damn good for me to be developing a conscience.
 
I think it was Bertrand Russell who said, with regard to animal rights/welfare, it's not a question of can they reason but can they suffer.

I thought the humane way to cook lobster was to put it in a pan of cold water then increase the heat gently so it passes out then dies before it starts boiling.
 
Lambs are beautiful. But I still eat them.

Your argument seemed to be that if an animal is one that you eat, then it doesn't count as an animal and cannot have any feelings.
Evolution has endowed every creature with a degree of sentience - including a pain response to learn to avoid harmful situations.
Lobsters are incredibly sensitive to temperature changes, which is why they migrate significant distances to find the optimum temperature for breeding grounds.
A lobster put into boiling water may thrash about for 30 seconds or so and crabs will shed their claws - a sign of extreme stress.
So, next time you eat some some marine arthropod, how about sparing a thought for the appalling cruelty involved in getting the animal onto your dinner plate?
 
Your argument seemed to be that if an animal is one that you eat, then it doesn't count as an animal and cannot have any feelings.
Evolution has endowed every creature with a degree of sentience - including a pain response to learn to avoid harmful situations.
Lobsters are incredibly sensitive to temperature changes, which is why they migrate significant distances to find the optimum temperature for breeding grounds.
A lobster put into boiling water may thrash about for 30 seconds or so and crabs will shed their claws - a sign of extreme stress.
So, next time you eat some some marine arthropod, how about sparing a thought for the appalling cruelty involved in getting the animal onto your dinner plate?

I don't think I will, actually. It's appalling to you but not to me. I have thought about it in the past.

Since my father was a chef and I've helped him dismember (non-human) corpses at a very young age I've always known food came from animals that have to be killed, plucked, skinned, bled and sliced up.

I'm not going to get into 'feelings'. That's entirely subjective unless we are talking about the sense of touch.

Certainly higher animals like sheep and cows can do more than merely react to stimulus and can be distressed by maltreatment. Lobsters? Fish? Don't know. How to measure it? Do crabs shed their claws because they are 'stressed' or is it just an automatic reaction? A dead frog's leg can be made to jump by electricity but the frog isn't 'feeling' anything.

Now if the lobster had been actively tortured for a few hours then my ability to be indignant on its behalf might be aroused. As it is by the treatment of lambs mentioned above. And things like foie gras which involve persistent maltreatment. If you want me to define a personal borderline between acceptable and unacceptable I'd say the drowning of ortolans is unacceptable, the boiling of crustaceans just fine.

Of course YMMV.
 
Last edited:
I think that two meanings of the word feelings are, perhaps becoming mixed up.

Consider the hell that is standing on an unexpected lego brick in bare feet. There are

* feelings of damn agony and pain enough to make your eyes leak

and

* feelings of murderous rage and a lust for vengeance to be rained down on the head of the perp

Saying that one doesn't want something to suffer the first isn't implying that you believe it experiences the second.

There isn't necessarily any bleeding hearts about this. Yes, the attempt to improve mammal slaughter has gone wrong in parts - but humans aren't infallible. We need to try things, gather data and try again.

edit to add: I've killed, to eat or otherwise, and will do so again.
 
I'm not sure if the majority of Lobsters are 'farmed'?
If they are, then like a lot of 'farmed' animals, they wouldn't have existed in the first place.
I have heard it posited before that actually many breeds of farmed animals would have died out altogether had they not been farmed.
In much the same way, a lot of 'big game hunting' would not happen if it were not for the efforts of conservationists to keep endangered species alive with captive breeding programmes etc, and that many 'endangered species' would already be extinct without those efforts.
I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, just that it happens.
 
I'm not sure if the majority of Lobsters are 'farmed'?
If they are, then like a lot of 'farmed' animals, they wouldn't have existed in the first place.
I have heard it posited before that actually many breeds of farmed animals would have died out altogether had they not been farmed.
In much the same way, a lot of 'big game hunting' would not happen if it were not for the efforts of conservationists to keep endangered species alive with captive breeding programmes etc, and that many 'endangered species' would already be extinct without those efforts.
I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, just that it happens.
Farm-raised lobsters aren't really a big thing. (Yet) The prized food (clawed) lobsters (Homarus) are very difficult to raise under controlled conditions. They are North Atlantic, cold-water animals and they grow slowly and cannibalize each other (an argument against being concerned about boiling, perhaps) which is not conducive to farming. Spiny lobsters are not closely related can be farmed more easily but aren't as tasty. Although I've had slipper lobster (Moreton Bay bugs) and it's nice but small (and no claws) compared to N. Atlantic lobster.
 
And on another tack :) - why do you suppose electrocution is less painful for the lobster? It's pretty damn painful for humans. The electric chair has always struck me as a particularly barbaric thing.

Has anyone made a comparative study? How long it takes to die, type of convulsions and so on? Since they claim to know lobsters can feel pain, they should be able to measure intensity and duration.

Of course, you'd have to kill a lot of lobsters in the tests.

Edit: Fluttermoth, I wasn't thinking about you specifically as a bleeding heart, that was aimed at the people who got the rules about slaughtering sheep changed. Which seem to have caused more suffering rather than less.

I don't think electrocution is painless; I don't support that as a viable option, I think a sharp blow to the head or brain is the most humane method of dispatch.

Freezing used to be recommend as a method of euthanasia for pet fish, but the latest veterinary thinking is that that is also not painless; it's just easier for the human, because they don't have to do the killing, or watch the animal die; I think that's true of a lot of so-called humane methods, tbh, it's a dereliction of duty; if you want to eat an animal, man up and kill it properly.

A lot of our rules and laws around animals for slaughter are a mess, but I don't think that's a good reason to just throw our hands in the air and do nothing. A lot of shit happens, all the time, and we can care about more than one thing! I'm honestly a lot more concerned about children starving, or the rights of LGBTQ+ people and women in the Middle East than I am about lobsters, or even lambs, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to care about lobsters or lambs at all.

Oh, and the 'we have to kill things to eat', sure we do, but if you're honestly trying to tell me that you think a potato being peeled suffers in anything like the way a cow or sheep does, I have no idea how to reply, it's an obvious fallacy, imo.
 
Is there any actual evidence one way or another?

I am firmly on the “They’re bugs, just big delicious ones” side. l have never needed to kill a lobbie, but l’d have no compunction about dropping one into boiling water. lf you have reservations, the freezer will kill them overnight, or a knife thrust into the appropriate point on the carapace will destroy whatever serves them as a brain.

Simply repeating “They must feel pain” proves nothing. ls there any proof that anyone can adduce?

Many readers will know that l go deer stalking. lf anyone raised the issue of pain in deer, l can quote a scientific study: a chap analysed the cortisol (“stress hormone”) levels in red deer killed by various methods. He didn’t tabulate the highest he’d ever tested, which was a red deer he’d had to euthanise after finding it irretrievably trapped in a wire fence; from my memory, the cortisol level something like 240. The levels he did record included:

Killed in slaughterhouse: 89
Shot from helicopter (l believe this was in NZ, where reds are a pest species): 61
Multi-rifleman hunting: 49
Single rifle (as l do): 16

That final number is pretty close to the “background noise” stress level of everyday life for a deer.

Can anyone show an equivalent for lobsters?

maximus otter
 
Back
Top