Doctor Who 2 (Avast! There Be Spoilers!)

[CarlosTheDJ]

I really enjoyed this until aliens got involved - I was enjoying the hauntological stylings and felt that chucking in some sci-fi killed the mood for me.

Although to be fair I did find Bradley's hat way more amusing than I should have done.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Yet again though, she failed to save the old woman being dunked.
Sad. But hey, never mind. Who’s counting?

I bet that pristine room’s had some good reviews on Trip Advisor.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I really enjoyed this until aliens got involved - I was enjoying the hauntological stylings and felt that chucking in some sci-fi killed the mood for me.

Although to be fair I did find Bradley's hat way more amusing than I should have done.

Agreed.
I enjoyed the hat-tips to Witchfinder General and Blood on Satan's Claw (and a sort-of hat-tip to The Wicker Man - Willa/Willow) and the outrageously camp Alan Cumming was quite amusing. The rather pathetic aliens just felt superfluous after that though. One of the less-irritating episodes of this incarnation of DW. Maybe 6/10.

 

[Anome]

Britain's campest king played by one of its campest actors. I saw some people confused by his accent, although others seemed to think it was exactly how a posh Scot who was ashamed of his roots might have sounded. (I don't know if James had ever been to Morningside, but that was mentioned by more than one commenter. Hell, Morningside probably didn't even exist in the 17th Century.)

It might have been interesting if they'd played this as a straight historical. I kind of feel that way about most of them thus far. "Demons of the Punjab" might have been better without the actual demons. I don't know if "Rosa" needed the time travelling racist, but it did provide some drama.

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the series, even when I feel it didn't quite hit.

 

[CarlosTheDJ]

It might have been interesting if they'd played this as a straight historical. I kind of feel that way about most of them thus far. "Demons of the Punjab" might have been better without the actual demons. I don't know if "Rosa" needed the time travelling racist, but it did provide some drama.

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the series, even when I feel it didn't quite hit.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, for me at least.

 

[Tigerhawk]

I wish King James hadn't been portrayed so pantomime - I know it's popular in the UK, but the rest of us thinks it's bloody annoying!

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I wish King James hadn't been portrayed so pantomime - I know it's popular in the UK, but the rest of us thinks it's bloody annoying!

He fathered 7 children and had at least one mistress, so he obviously was partial to some heterosexual how's-your-father. The rumours of his bisexuality stem from his preference for male company in his younger days, when he was into jousting, hunting and falconry.
Alan Cumming probably can't do nuances of macho or butch!

 

[Tigerhawk]

I wish King James hadn't been portrayed so pantomime - I know it's popular in the UK, but the rest of us thinks it's bloody annoying!

He fathered 7 children and had at least one mistress, so he obviously was partial to some heterosexual how's-your-father. The rumours of his bisexuality stem from his preference for male company in his younger days, when he was into jousting, hunting and falconry.
Alan Cumming probably can't do nuances of macho or butch!

I draw your attention to the word pantomime in my post - pantomime does not mean the same thing as "effeminate homosexual", it means cheesy overacting for the sake of a few laughs (and I repeat my post - I know it's popular in the UK, but to the rest of us it's bloody annoying!). The whole thing took out the seriousness of the episode and was distracting - much like a toothache...

 

[David Plankton]

I know it's popular in the UK

Oh no it isn't.

 

[Anonymous-50446]

Oh no it isn't.

Oh yes it is.

 

[David Plankton]

Oh yes it is.

"effeminate homosexual",

He's behind you!

 

[Tigerhawk]

I I know it's popular in the UK

Oh no it isn't.

Oh yes it is.

He's behind you!

This is exactly what I mean, the whole thing is just mystifying to the rest of us, and entirely unfunny.

And, David Plankton, quoting "Effeminate homosexual" and then getting a quick gay stereotype joke by putting "He's behind you" only reinforces a negative stereotype about gay people. I expected a more reasoned perspective from a fellow Fortean...

 

[GNC]

Here's an entertaining article on the fan videos produced in DW's wilderness years:
Radio Times article

Colin Baker getting it on with Nicola Bryant, the nympho Zygons (rated 18!), and less salacious stuff too.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

This is exactly what I mean, the whole thing is just mystifying to the rest of us, and entirely unfunny.

And, David Plankton, quoting "Effeminate homosexual" and then getting a quick gay stereotype joke by putting "He's behind you" only reinforces a negative stereotype about gay people. I expected a more reasoned perspective from a fellow Fortean...

I know Plankton's postings very well and I can assure you he wasn't having a dig at gay people. Also I'm sure there are a fair few gay men who would find it inoffensive and a laugh.

As I've said here before in my youth I spent a lot of time going to gay nightclubs as they was less chance of getting your head kicked in and they were fun, with lovely people. I was lucky to be introduced to them by two gay friends.

Ribald doesn't come close to describe the humor that went on in those clubs.

 

[pandacracker]

I'm gay and I wasn't offended.

I would also like to add that, sometimes, I am not entirely comfortable with non-gay people making gay jokes as I'm not completely sure if it comes from a good place. Black people can call each other nigger as much as they like but I wouldn't because I'm not black. It depends on context and how well people know each other.

As to Cummings performance, I quite liked it. His campy "aren't-I-so-clever-and-naughty" acting style started when he was at drama school. I know because I was there at the same time. Generally I don't like it but I thought it worked for this. Isn't it a kind of conceit in fantasy writing that the personalities of famous people from history can be made up to suit the comedy/drama/plot/added twist because none of us know what they were really like?

I think the Dr now being in female form had to be dealt with head-on at some point; a story about a 17th century witch trial was a good way to do it.

 

[GNC]

Missed a trick by not putting a TRRROOOOLLLLL from Trollhunter in tonight's episode, but The Actor Kevin Eldon made up for it with one of his typically eccentric turns. At last, the mirrors plot from Poltergeist 3 is put to good use. Thinking big, the villain was an entire universe - a bit Sapphire and Steel, but at least the Doc saw eye to frog with it by the end. "Ah luv me sonic!" Yeah, we noticed! Can't say it wasn't different - I wasn't bored, and yet again Bradley Walsh makes me go misty.

Next week: the grand finale. Already?!

 

[Frideswide]

and then getting a quick gay stereotype joke by putting "He's behind you"

no.

It's a pantomime reference again.

 

[Tigerhawk]

I'm aware of the pantomime reference, my point is that King James was portrayed in a negatively stereotypical "camp" manner, and Plankton seems to have dismissed my comment as unworthy of serious attention.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Missed a trick by not putting a TRRROOOOLLLLL from Trollhunter in tonight's episode, but The Actor Kevin Eldon made up for it with one of his typically eccentric turns. At last, the mirrors plot from Poltergeist 3 is put to good use. Thinking big, the villain was an entire universe - a bit Sapphire and Steel, but at least the Doc saw eye to frog with it by the end. "Ah luv me sonic!" Yeah, we noticed! Can't say it wasn't different - I wasn't bored, and yet again Bradley Walsh makes me go misty.

Next week: the grand finale. Already?!

Just finished watching it and agree that it was very reminiscent of Saphire and Steel.
Certainly the most complex and thought-provoking episode of this series so far.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

I'm aware of the pantomime reference, my point is that King James was portrayed in a negatively stereotypical "camp" manner, and Plankton seems to have dismissed my comment as unworthy of serious attention.

Sorry when you talk about camp are you takling about kitsch/panto or effeminate behaviour by a male? It is DW after all and its always been a tad pantoesque. As for the performance i dont know much about Cummings but it didnt strike me as being particularly over the top.

 

[Tigerhawk]

Both!

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Both!

People are allowed to be camp you know!

 

[pandacracker]

Yes, some people are camp (and not all of them are gay) However making a character camp as a way of indicating their sexuality is lazy writing in my opinion.

 

[Anome]

Missed a trick by not putting a TRRROOOOLLLLL from Trollhunter in tonight's episode, but The Actor Kevin Eldon made up for it with one of his typically eccentric turns.

He does somewhat stand out. Even under all those prosthetics,

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Yes, some people are camp (and not all of them are gay) However making a character camp as a way of indicating their sexuality is lazy writing in my opinion.

TBH I didn't really pay attention to it a I was surfing the net as well at the time. Didn't notice anything particularly OOT though.

 

[Anome]

Just finished here. Poor Graeme. I'm more than ever convinced he's not getting out of Series 11 alive.

 

[Tigerhawk]

People are allowed to be camp you know!

How gracious of you to "allow" people to be gay, but you are missing the point of the argument.

Yes, some people are camp (and not all of them are gay) However making a character camp as a way of indicating their sexuality is lazy writing in my opinion.

Exactly my point. And "camping it up" for cheap laughs is just as lazy in terms of writing - it's not the sort of behaviour that encourages a more positive presentation of a section of the species that has been either told they are ill, sinners or something to be feared or laughed at.

 

[Analogue Boy]

That frog was probably the biggest nod to traditional old Who episode quality.
It was really shit wasn’t it?

 

[Naughty_Felid]

How gracious of you to "allow" people to be gay, but you are missing the point of the argument.


Exactly my point. And "camping it up" for cheap laughs is just as lazy in terms of writing - it's not the sort of behaviour that encourages a more positive presentation of a section of the species that has been either told they are ill, sinners or something to be feared or laughed at.

fucking hell who pissed on your chips in this thread?

 

[CarlosTheDJ]

That was a great episode, I really enjoyed it.... until the frog appeared. It was great again after that too.

"Grandad"

I'm not crying, you are....