Doctor Who 2 (Avast! There Be Spoilers!)

[lordmongrove]

The making of The Green Death. A true classic from 1973. Real Doctor Who.

 

[GNC]

Apparently Jodie Whittaker's let slip that the series has been renewed for 2019, with her in it, though the Beeb haven't said anything yet. It was a hit, so maybe not that surprising.

Meanwhile, if you like the old series, BBC 4 are doing a doc about the notorious Christmas tapes, which features some top Tom Baker swearing. Rhys Thomas producing, so you know it will be good.

Radio Times with a bit more info

 

[Analogue Boy]

Not since Alien Tetley Teafolk in Space have we seen such Northernness in British sc-fi. Is this series a follow-on from Downton Abbey? I’m getting confused.
The Doctor hates guns. It now turns out she prefers grenades.

A ripoff of a hovering ship we’ve seen in a film before somewhere.

Circular firing squad is just a joke. I mean, who would write ‘the Robot enemy appoaches from both sides and just as they shoot, our heroes duck and both sides shoot each other dead.’ Really?

Tim Shaw lacks teeth. His poor CV is written all over his face.

Exposition reiterated. And the the action was described over and over again.
And then the plot was explained again on top of that.

For Whos foreign viewers, could you clarify whether these minor character deaths occur right on a commercial break?

Still, we’ve learned that knives are bad, guns are bad but grenades are OK so we’re heading towards a Swedish model.

According to Swedish police, the use of hand grenades in crime is unprecedented in all comparable European and non-European countries, and the only countries with similar characteristics are those with warlike conditions, such as Mexico with the ongoing drug war. One study suggests Sweden had four to five times as many fatal shootings per capita as Norway and Germany from 2008-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden

 

[Roger Nowell]

Aye..well..'appen. Can't put it much better me'sen than Analogue Boy has (above).

Not an episode I'd rewatch in a hurry.

The whole series felt like a spin-off show. So terribly 'worthy' too. We're reaching a point where all the 'baddies' will be forced to take Citizenship classes and sent out in hi-viz vests to pick litter as Community Pay-back .

 

[GNC]

An episode about consequences, though the whole series has had that theme. The Doc had to reckon for her actions unwittingly almost destroying the Earth, no matter how heroic she was trying to be originally. I'm glad Graham didn't turn murderer. Laughed at the Doc admitting her rules could change at a drop of a hat, but she still drew the line at killing. Inanimate objects, on the other hand, are fair game. As are robots. K9 should be glad he lasted so long. Kind of dour-looking for a finale, but the suspense was definitely there.

Next time: ooh, are we about to get a classic baddie back? The worst creature in the history of the universe or something? Let the speculation commence.

 

[CarlosTheDJ]

"And when asked about the Daleks’ appearance, Chibnall gave an answer that didn’t exactly rule out their return in the New Year’s episode they were currently filming.

“We’ve got two weeks left of shooting, and we haven’t seen them yet,” Chibnall said coyly....

..."Because after stating they were a no-show this time around, Chibnall noted cheekily that it was only “this year” (emphasis on the ‘this’) that the deadly pepperpots were being left on the intergalactic spice rack.

By that logic, wouldn’t the 1 January 2019 count as next year – and be the perfect time for the Daleks to make their grand return in front of a massive, slightly hungover audience?

And then there’s the newly-released New Year’s Day special trailer, which teases a truly terrifying alien monster that’s sounding more and more like a Dalek to us…

“This is the DNA of the most dangerous creature in the universe,” Whittaker says in the footage. “It’s not gonna stop until it’s taken control of this planet.”

“It’s gonna kill anyone that gets in its path.”

“Does it have a name?” asks Bradley Walsh’s Graham, to silence from the Doctor – though if we’d waited just a few moments longer, we wouldn’t have been surprised if Whittaker uttered the word we’ve been waiting for for so long.

And THEN there’s the confirmed New Year’s Day special title, Resolution. Sure, it doesn’t have anything to do with our favourite denizens of Skaro – but a few fans have noted that this title feeds quite nicely into the ____ of the Daleks word structure that often accompanies episodes starring the species. It’s not SUCH a crazy idea that the BBC are giving us a hint with us, is it?"

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-12-09/doctor-who-daleks-return-new-years-day-special/

 

[GNC]

Well, there was Resurrection of the Daleks, Revelation of the Daleks and Remembrance of the Daleks so please, d'you think we could have some Demis Roussos on?

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Bubble really overdid her irritating mouth-agape, gobsmacked look in The Battle of Ranskoor.
Not a bad episode overall though - liked the sets and alien landscape.

 

[Analogue Boy]

I think the best comment on this series came from below the line in the Guardian. While it’s been pushing how great this series is, BTL begs to differ.

‘You don’t have to clench your buttocks to use a sonic screwdriver. It’s not a trumpet’.

 

[GNC]

I think the best comment on this series came from below the line in the Guardian. While it’s been pushing how great this series is, BTL begs to differ.

‘You don’t have to clench your buttocks to use a sonic screwdriver. It’s not a trumpet’.

Jeez, you watch a few episodes and you're an expert in sonic screwdriver usage.

 

[Peripart]

Well, there was Resurrection of the Daleks, Revelation of the Daleks and Remembrance of the Daleks so please, d'you think we could have some Demis Roussos on?

I'm not sure they like the traditional story names now - it's all gone a bit gimmicky, a far cry from the days when you could prefix them with the words "Doctor Who and..." and get Terrence Dicks to knock out a novelisation. I mean, "Doctor Who and It Takes You Away" or "Doctor Who and Kerblam!" don't really work, do they?

As for "Resolution", who knows? The trailer has certainly set up the monster to be something big, and given that this season has been notably lacking in "known" monsters, it would be an extreme disappointment if it were something as new and crap as Tim Shaw, or a badly-animated amphibian. Bad enough that the story is going to be set on Earth, as were 6 of the 10 episodes in the series just gone.

Demis Roussos - do explain please, the reference is eluding me...!

 

[GNC]

I'm not sure they like the traditional story names now - it's all gone a bit gimmicky, a far cry from the days when you could prefix them with the words "Doctor Who and..." and get Terrence Dicks to knock out a novelisation. I mean, "Doctor Who and It Takes You Away" or "Doctor Who and Kerblam!" don't really work, do they?

As for "Resolution", who knows? The trailer has certainly set up the monster to be something big, and given that this season has been notably lacking in "known" monsters, it would be an extreme disappointment if it were something as new and crap as Tim Shaw, or a badly-animated amphibian. Bad enough that the story is going to be set on Earth, as were 6 of the 10 episodes in the series just gone.

Chibnall said there would be no returning villains this year, this year being 2018. The New Year's Special is technically 2019. So maybe it's Daleks?

Demis Roussos - do explain please, the reference is eluding me...!

"Laurence, Angela likes Demis Roussos. Tony likes Demis Roussos, I like Demis Roussos, and Sue would like to hear Demis Roussos: so please, d'you think we could have some Demis Roussos on?"

Sorry, thought I was getting a bit repetitive with the Daleks and sounded like Beverly from Abigail's Party.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Bubble really overdid her irritating mouth-agape, gobsmacked look in The Battle of Ranskoor.
Not a bad episode overall though - liked the sets and alien landscape.

The best written so far. Bubble - really?

 

[Analogue Boy]

The best written so far. Bubble - really?

She’s totally Bubble. Bubble was always a bit gormless but written to be ok in the end despite of it.
The whole thing is also Scooby Doo in a Mystery Machine.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ve nothing against a female Doctor. I said before the series I’d judge it on the quality of tone, script and actors. Apart from Bradley Walsh all have fallen flat.
Let’s have a closer look at those tick boxes. Dr.Who is now a woman. But a young woman despite the cries of discrimination against older women actors struggling for roles in the job. I say this as Missy is the best thing that happened to Who for years. The disabled guy has a disability that is so convenient (and sometimes forgettable) for a shooting schedule that it doesn’t mean wheelchair access or other special needs to get to location and shoot. So there’s almost a Dalek thing going on there in if you think about it. Although the Daleks aren’t keen on token gestures. That’s exclusion.The fact he can’t act is another issue but not one a BBC department has to worry about as they cast a diversity net beyond other considerations. You don’t really need to be able to act in a worldwide franchise these days apparently.
Derivative scripts. Let’s look a Tim Shaw. A ‘Predator’-Lite like character who picked on the saddest dweeb in the catchment area of the BBC’s Northern media centre. Shot on the foot. Hmmmmmm.
Shitty locations, effects and props. The whatever it was that was eating the ship.
The shitty Specsaver lens kit I have with my own glasses operating as piloting on the hospital ship as a man has a baby.
The lack of extras populating the scenes.
Those crap balloony lanterns.
That frog.

This has been the worst series of Who in a long time. Professional camerawork and grading have made it look good but that’s post production. It’s Production that’s the main problem here.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Shes 36 so hardly still in school.

Agree with everything else pretty much. Poorly written but the last one was better than most of the others. Forgot the guy had a disabilty. They could have done a Dom Vriess - type character. Tosin Cole has a good CV not seen him in anything else but he has had the worst material to work with so not surprising he's been poor.

Bradley has been the best companion for ages.

 

[Min Bannister]

I know 36 is considered old for a woman but it really isn't.

And I love Alan Cumming. My favourite episode (though I haven't seen the later ones).

 

[Frideswide]

The disabled guy has a disability that is so convenient (and sometimes forgettable) for a shooting schedule that it doesn’t mean wheelchair access or other special needs to get to location and shoot.

those of us with non-visible disabilities are rather enjoying it. The disability = wheelchair trope is well beyond sell by date.

 

[AnonyJoolz]

We thoroughly enjoyed the last episode, it felt as if the new Doctor had finally got going, with an excellently scary baddie - Tim Shaw - and a story that finally saw a quarry standing in for an alien planet. Nice one!

I've enjoyed all the Doctors since Tom Baker in different ways, some actors took longer than others to embed themselves as The Doctor. Matt Smith was an instant fit, as was Sylvester McCoy in my opinion.

Love to see some Daleks, maybe a few Ice Warriors (remember them?)

Apropos of disability, remember when Nabil Shaban played Sil? An actor with a disability, playing a baddie who wasn't 'disabled' as such. There's an interesting interview with Nabil here: http://www.kaldorcity.com/people/DWnsinterview.html Maybe his cheeky offer to play The Master helped the DW producers to think differently, and this was 33 years ago. DW has always had a progressive streak.

 

[catseye]

I am possibly one of the biggest fans of The Doctor that you could ever wish to meet (boringly so, in fact). And I love Jodie Whittaker, I have warmed to her team, I even like Bradley...

but the writing is making me itch. It is, as my son put it, as if they've got two teams writing, one doing the beginning, one doing the end and then a spare person is jamming the two ends together'. It is the 'cut and shut' of TV writing. There are plot holes and things mentioned that just never have any pay off (OK, so the 'planet affects your mind...' but we never see it doing so. Feeling a bit 'travel sick and headachey' is not really 'affecting your mind' is it? It's drinking too much sherry.) I get that they needed the 'neural blockers' for the story, but, for the love of Davros - don't tell us about exciting stuff that we never see happen! SHOW US!

And I really like Chris Chibnall too. It's almost as though he's trying to write with a team of marketing specialists tied to his wrists.

 

[Frideswide]

Does anyone have ratings figures?

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Does anyone have ratings figures?

Yes - It usually depended on how much I 'd had to drink but it was normally a solid 6 out of 10.

 

[Frideswide]

Yes - It usually depended on how much I 'd had to drink but it was normally a solid 6 out of 10.

well on form!

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Does anyone have ratings figures?

According to Today's Metro, the first episode had 10.5 million viewers. By the final episode that had dropped to 6.2 million.

 

[GNC]

Average has been 7.7 million viewers, the best it's been since the Tennant years.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Average has been 7.7 million viewers, the best it's been since the Tennant years.

The critical difference being that the viewing figures for David Tennant's tenure showed a steady increase, as word got around that this was very entertaining television.

With Bubble weilding the sonic, the curiosity value obviously brought in a lot of initial viewers, but the trend seems to be down.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_episodes_(2005–present)

 

[GNC]

That's normal for TV ratings these days, I'm afraid, there seems to be an increasing number of viewers who don't stick with anything they watch. Bodyguard and Killing Eve are exceptions. Must admit I'm guilty of it myself - I still haven't finished Maniac on Netflix, and don't know if I ever will. We are always being told attention spans are getting shorter, so maybe TV ratings are proof?

 

[Analogue Boy]

Ratings here....

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/doctor-who-series-11-2018-uk-ratings-accumulator-88397.htm

Overnights went from 8.32m to 5.2m over the course of the series.

It didn’t actually get better no matter how you juggle the figures.

 

[Analogue Boy]

That's normal for TV ratings these days, I'm afraid, there seems to be an increasing number of viewers who don't stick with anything they watch. Bodyguard and Killing Eve are exceptions. Must admit I'm guilty of it myself - I still haven't finished Maniac on Netflix, and don't know if I ever will. We are always being told attention spans are getting shorter, so maybe TV ratings are proof?

But logically, if you make a Dr Who for people who don’t normally watch Dr Who, some of those are going to drop off. And then you’ve potentially already distanced yourself from traditional Who fans in the process.
The attention spans of those who’ve been watching streadily since the sixties can hardly be questioned.

 

[catseye]

I wonder if it's also suffered from the drop back of much episodic television - particularly when there's no 'tie in' story to wind it all together? That's one thing I've missed this series, the lack of a cohesive plot arc which made watching each episode essential if you wanted to piece it all together. I know that could be a bit wearing (Mr Moffat, I'm looking at you...) but the whole 'Bad Wolf' and River Song narratives only really made sense if you watched every episode (and sometimes not even then, still looking at you, Steve). This series it seemed possible to watch one episode and not bother for a couple, pick it up later and then watch the last one and you didn't miss anything important.

I think that's one reason that this series felt a bit lacking. There was nothing weaving the stories together, apart from the whole 'Grandad' and fist bumping of Ryan and Graham - which is hardly plot arc material.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

There is so much to watch out there. If you take the stuff that I only watch with the other half, we've still got about 10 shows that we're only half way through.

If you look at how Netflix, Amazon, etc have taken off in the last couple of years. I think even Tennant would have lost a few million.

I'm not a big fan of his doctor, the writing at the time, companions or the convoluted stories. Although I think he's brilliant in other stuff. He was way too powerful a doctor.

I know it's been done to death but they just need to get rid of the deus ex machina of the Sonic Screwdriver it just creates such lazy writing.