Doctor Who 2 (Avast! There Be Spoilers!)

GNC

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Doctor Who too PC? Nonsense - it's too far right!

According to this article, anyway:
From - where else? - The Guardian

Far be it for me to accuse them of taking it a tad too seriously, but it's amazing how critical everyone has gotten these days, even about those you'd think would be on the same side. The Doctor has always advocated pacifism over violence, and though gay characters may die, so do the hetero ones. It's not a stretch to have POC as villains, either, we're all capable of evil no matter what race we are. And anyway, don't actors of colour often complain they would like a juicy bad guy/girl role like the white actors get?

Plus science fiction has historically been the biggest advocate of diversity in casting, and DW is no exception. Stop trying to take offense when there are actual, real life villains out there in the world who make a sci-fi show about a time-travelling alien look pretty mild in comparison.
 

GNC

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I don't think it's any more woke than it has ever been, even in its original 60s-80s heyday, it just seems casting a female lead has attracted the PC gorn mad maniacs like flies to honey. All the Doc needs to do is say she doesn't find Ricky Gervais funny and it'll be a perfect storm of self-righteous indignation.
 

Dinobot

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I don't think it's any more woke than it has ever been, even in its original 60s-80s heyday, it just seems casting a female lead has attracted the PC gorn mad maniacs like flies to honey. All the Doc needs to do is say she doesn't find Ricky Gervais funny and it'll be a perfect storm of self-righteous indignation.
I've never found Ricky Gervais funny...
 

GNC

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It's called "punching down", apparently. But it's a bit rich for Gervais to bring up Weinstein when he welcomed Jimmy Savile on his chat show with open arms. "They all knew", right, Ricky?
 

CarlosTheDJ

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Enjoyed these first two episodes, but I thought the but where the Doc removed the perception filter was a bit out of character.
 

GNC

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Enjoyed these first two episodes, but I thought the but where the Doc removed the perception filter was a bit out of character.
Do you mean when The Master was revealed to the Nazis? I kind of assumed she knew he'd get out of it, he's been in bigger scrapes before, but it would take a long time, and it did.
 

GNC

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Oh, and most recent viewing figures for the first episode of this series are at 6.70million, so about 1.5million down on the current Doc's debut, but still one of the most popular shows on UK TV and consistent with the rest of the previous series.
 

CarlosTheDJ

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Do you mean when The Master was revealed to the Nazis? I kind of assumed she knew he'd get out of it, he's been in bigger scrapes before, but it would take a long time, and it did.
I thought it came across as unnecessarily cruel (for the Doctor, anyway) - to out him as non-Aryan. He was already going to have a rough time after he was revealed as a spy.
 

eburacum

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The plot element where the Master has to live through decades of real time without access to a Tardis reminds me of The Curse of Fatal Death, Stephen Moffat's spoof for Children In Need where Jonathan Pryce (an excellent Master) had to live for centuries in a sewer.
 

GNC

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I thought it came across as unnecessarily cruel (for the Doctor, anyway) - to out him as non-Aryan. He was already going to have a rough time after he was revealed as a spy.
I suppose it's a "full disclosure" thing? And remember The Master is only using a British-Asian's stolen body, he's really Gallifreyan.
 

GNC

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The plot element where the Master has to live through decades of real time without access to a Tardis reminds me of The Curse of Fatal Death, Stephen Moffat's spoof for Children In Need where Jonathan Pryce (an excellent Master) had to live for centuries in a sewer.
Rory had it worse! Anyone remember Rory?!
 

DrPaulLee

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"Plus science fiction has historically been the biggest advocate of diversity in casting, and DW is no exception."

Not in DW "historically". Pre 2005, there were comparatively very few non White actors and actresses cast. We didn't even get our first non white companion until after the revival (and I'm not including K9 or Kamelion)
 

DrPaulLee

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Do you mean when The Master was revealed to the Nazis? I kind of assumed she knew he'd get out of it, he's been in bigger scrapes before, but it would take a long time, and it did.
If you're talking cruelty, the Doctor watched the Master be burnt to a crisp in "Planet of Fire" and did nothing about it.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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Dr Who asking a presenter to show him her tits in a corporate video for ZANUSSI in 1981 .. right at the end of the video ..


I recognise that actress! She was in The Profressionals a few times (Cowley's secretary/PA) and was also in The Upper Hand.



Same here, but I fear we'll just be rehashing well-worn arguments if we get into this again.

Also, Jodie has a new single out, joining the ranks of musical Doctors like Jon Pertwee ("I am the Doctor!"), Peter Davison ("We're off to Button Moon!") and Sylvester McCoy (playing the spoons).
Peter Davison did the theme tune for Button Moon? I never knew that.
 

DrPaulLee

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Colin Baker also sang in the 1985 charity record too...
 

gordonrutter

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Enjoyed these first two episodes, but I thought the but where the Doc removed the perception filter was a bit out of character.
The problem I have with that is the Germans were coming to arrest the Master disguised as a German officer, who most of them probably knew. But the version they knew was as seen through the perception filter. The Doctor removes the perception filter showing this now Asian man. This is not the Master they have come to arrest so there may be some non aryan issues but they no longer believe they have arrested the spy they were going for.
 

Min Bannister

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The problem I have with that is the Germans were coming to arrest the Master disguised as a German officer, who most of them probably knew. But the version they knew was as seen through the perception filter. The Doctor removes the perception filter showing this now Asian man. This is not the Master they have come to arrest so there may be some non aryan issues but they no longer believe they have arrested the spy they were going for.
Maybe it just appeared to them that he had been "whiting up" all this time but still looked the same otherwise?
 

stu neville

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Nice little medley of sci-fi classics, there. Alien, Aliens, Time Machine, Terminator.... and a bit of The Magic School Bus...

...bus wankers...
 

gordonrutter

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Nice little medley of sci-fi classics, there. Alien, Aliens, Time Machine, Terminator.... and a bit of The Magic School Bus...

...bus wankers...
And it still managed to be the worst ever epsiode of Dr Who ever. I feel it may be time for me to move away from the new, emerging Who.
 

Peripart

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I missed the first 10 minutes or so tonight, and ended up sort of half-watching the rest. There were a few good bits, but the last couple of minutes were more than a bit preachy, the kind of stuff that recent Who has been accused of. The Doctor might as well have been facing the camera and wagging her fingers at us...

Still, I haven't quite given up on this season yet, as I thought that Spyfall was a pretty solid piece of entertainment. But maybe, that exemplifies the problem with modern Who - cramming a whole story into 50 minutes is really hard, especially when you've got to set up the whole premise of a new location, new monsters, new friends and heroes, and finish the story in a neatish way. 2-parters (equivalent to the old 4-parters* of the last century!) give the writers more opportunity to vary the pace, and tell a much more complete tale.

*Yes, I know that some stories were 6 25-minute episodes or even more - quite a few Pertwee ones were 7 episodes long, so some reason - but the 4-parters were normally the ones I enjoyed the most. Apart from Genesis of the Daleks, of course, which was one of the best 6-part stories ever. Fact!
 
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