Doctor Who 2 (Avast! There Be Spoilers!)

stu neville

Commissioner.
Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
11,614
Likes
4,520
Points
234
Speaking of which, best theory I've heard about this new development means that Peter Cushing's Doctor from the two 1960s films is now canon!
One of the missed opportunities was not acknowledging The Cribbins' role in the Cushing Whoniverse when he re-emerged with Tennant. Given the Doctor's apparent ability to erase memories, it would have explained Wilf Mott's obsession with alien invasions without being consciously aware as to why. They could at least have hinted at it, like half a million middle-aged people did on a weekly basis.
...assuming they don't emulate Moffat and just not bother to tie up all the loose ends (or just hand-wave them away with a single sentence)
That was my biggest problem with Moffat. I've said it before on this very thread, but it got to the point where there was no real jeopardy because you just knew that however impossible the odds there probably wouldn't be a really ingenious solution, but some glib - as you say - hand-wave. Once or twice would be ok, but it became almost a weekly "aren't we clever" wheeze on the showrunners' part. It really affected the Matt Smith era especially.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
2,761
Likes
3,570
Points
184
But why should the movies be canon? They are copies of adventures the Doctor has already had. Do we think he had essentially the same first meeting with the Thals and the Daleks? Did he have the same fight with the Daleks twice in their attempt to remove the earths core?
 

DrPaulLee

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
1,132
Likes
707
Points
144
Because Moffat was determined to tie everything into some form of continuity. That's one reason why he hamfestedly tried to explain the new Doctor's face in "Deep Breath."

As for the movies - Moffat wanted to show them as part of the photographic montage of the Doctor's past in "Day of the Doctor." I can't remember the exact reason but I think his rationale was that after Ian and Barbara returned home, their exploits became the basis of the two movies. Obviously, with some embellishment and alterations.
 

DrPaulLee

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
1,132
Likes
707
Points
144
I just posted this on Facebook about where the new Doctor fits in:

Engin was clear in "The Deadly Assassin" that the 12th regeneration meant death. Obviously they'd found a way round this by the time of "The Five Doctors". What this means is that there can't have been a Doctor before Hartnell as it wasn't possible to renew his regeneration cycle. It also means that there can't have been a secret Doctor somewhere along the line or Tennant would have been the last of that cycle.
 

Tribble

Killjoy Boffin
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
2,743
Likes
6,069
Points
204
A few random thoughts/hypothesisings (sorry if they're obvious/obviously wrong/been discounted/just plain stupid) :

I reckon a few of the recent events could be fractures in time. (Bill&Ted 3 gets released this year, maybe they're to blame)

Orphan 55? The Doctor's seen Earth's future at numerous times so surely she'd remember if it ended up a radioactive, Dundonian wasteland. Unless there's been a fracture somewhere in the timeline and the Earth isn't meant to be like that but the Doc somehow has her memory clouded as to what the timeline should look like.

Dr. Ruth (not the sex advice one) - somewhere the Doc's timeline fractured into two, resulting in a Ruth/Gat timeline where the Doc didn't develop sonic screwdrivers. Logical thing would be to go back through their memories and see where they diverge, maybe find the cause of the fracture (and fix it with some hyper-chrono-duct tape or something).

The Master's return - I'd imagine Missy would have a cloudy memory of her previous incarnation shooting her (the stronger the event, the stronger the memory). So it would be logical for her to do something to counter it, (knowing what and when it happens). A shield of some kind that absorbs most of the energy but leaves her mortally wounded but still capable of escaping and bodysnatching.

The Terrible Secret of Gallifrey : The Time Lords laid down the law. Made time nice and orderly. Only it's not. It's a chaotic mess with fractures and alternate timelines and continuity errors - and that was even before Gallifrey got into a time war/destroyed/hidden/found/destroyed again. The "fixed points" in time were installed by cowboy builders on a Friday afternoon. Rassilon was a backstabbing loony. Hoping to see the reappearance of Omega, the proper introduction of Abslom Daak and more refugee Time Lords emerging from hiding across the Universe (maybe they could found New Gallifrey somewhere, just down the road from New Asgard...)
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
29,185
Likes
14,890
Points
309
Aw, sweet ending! After Meglos and Frontios we had Praxeus, and the plot was a bit Green Death, going back a bit further. Solid mystery, satisfying solution, and the crusty explodey disease was kind of horrible. Great guest cast, and the companions all had something to do. Didn't advance last week's conundrums, but another very fine basic episode.

Was the talking cat a reference to Eric "Master" Roberts?
 

Dinobot

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,746
Likes
2,724
Points
154
Location
Under the floorboards, taking notes...
Aw, sweet ending! After Meglos and Frontios we had Praxeus, and the plot was a bit Green Death, going back a bit further. Solid mystery, satisfying solution, and the crusty explodey disease was kind of horrible. Great guest cast, and the companions all had something to do. Didn't advance last week's conundrums, but another very fine basic episode.

Was the talking cat a reference to Eric "Master" Roberts?
Not Eric "Master" Robers, but Mrs Slocombe...
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
29,185
Likes
14,890
Points
309
Just in case you've not heard of A Talking Cat!?!, here's the trailer:

Eric Roberts' finest role, after The Master. And he literally phoned it in.
 

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,053
Likes
1,421
Points
184
Location
Indiana
Just watched the latest Dr Who...Praxeus........am I the only one who thought it was lame.?
:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
29,185
Likes
14,890
Points
309
Just watched the latest Dr Who...Praxeus........am I the only one who thought it was it was lame.?
:rolleyes:
It's a Doctor Who episode, there's always going to be someone who thinks it's lame.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,921
Likes
6,129
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Just watched the latest Dr Who...Praxeus........am I the only one who thought it was lame.?
:rolleyes:
Bit heavy on the old eco-politics and how many times are they going to use the old cliché of a seemingly innocent character being revealed to be something else? That's three episodes so far this series they've used that ploy!
 

Dinobot

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,746
Likes
2,724
Points
154
Location
Under the floorboards, taking notes...
Bit heavy on the old eco-politics and how many times are they going to use the old cliché of a seemingly innocent character being revealed to be something else? That's three episodes so far this series they've used that ploy!
That ploy is like the buses, nothing for ages, then three in a row...
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,921
Likes
6,129
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
That ploy is like the buses, nothing for ages, then three in a row...
Or just sloppy writing.
Apart from the Tesla episode, the whole "Bubble" era DW has been pretty meh.
I know we're never going to get another Baker or Pertwee style classic Doctor, but this has got me yearning for Capaldi or some of the creepier Tennant stories.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
2,761
Likes
3,570
Points
184
Or just sloppy writing.
Apart from the Tesla episode, the whole "Bubble" era DW has been pretty meh.
I know we're never going to get another Baker or Pertwee style classic Doctor, but this has got me yearning for Capaldi or some of the creepier Tennant stories.
CC, sloppy writing? Does he do any other kind? And the Tesla one? I slept through the middle of that one and had no desire to start it playing again. It has the distinction of being the only extant episode of the show I have never seen.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
29,185
Likes
14,890
Points
309
Aww, that's made me quite sentimental. Started out all mysterious, went all hokey with the gods stuff, then it got to the point and it all fell into place. Never thought I'd see a mental health theme in DW, even if the Doc wasn't much help one-to-one, but then, she's suffering loneliness herself. Liked the Toymaker reference too, it was a bit like that story.

Hope this one makes some people feel a bit better, it's surprising what even a silly science fiction show can do to pick you up.
 

Dinobot

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,746
Likes
2,724
Points
154
Location
Under the floorboards, taking notes...
Aww, that's made me quite sentimental. Started out all mysterious, went all hokey with the gods stuff, then it got to the point and it all fell into place. Never thought I'd see a mental health theme in DW, even if the Doc wasn't much help one-to-one, but then, she's suffering loneliness herself. Liked the Toymaker reference too, it was a bit like that story.

Hope this one makes some people feel a bit better, it's surprising what even a silly science fiction show can do to pick you up.
I liked the references to the Toymaker, the Eternals and the Guardians - wouldn't mind any (or all) of them to reappear at some point...
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,921
Likes
6,129
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Could have been a classic creepy episode - if it hadn't been for "Bubble" going totally OTT with her silly, gormless, gobsmacked look every few minutes.
You're supposed to be a millennia-old cosmic traveller, with immense experience and wisdom for crying out loud, not some extra playing a comedy cameo in Last of the Summer Wine!
Oh and we all know that Islam is an enormously enlightened and benevolent ideology, without Bubble telling us.
Sorry, but this weakest ever incarnation of The Doctor is ruining the whole DW saga for me.
If viewing numbers continue to plummet, hopefully Whittaker will be replaced before too long.
Sign the petition for Sean Pertwee now!
 

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,053
Likes
1,421
Points
184
Location
Indiana
I'm going to sound like a misogynist here, but I haven't really 'gotten into' any of them since Capaldi left.
Whittaker is a good actress but I simply don't like her as Dr Who. So...is this about choices to play the part or bad writing, or both?
:thought:
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
2,761
Likes
3,570
Points
184
I'm going to sound like a misogynist here, but I haven't really 'gotten into' any of them since Capaldi left.
Whittaker is a good actress but I simply don't like her as Dr Who. So...is this about choices to play the part or bad writing, or both?
:thought:
I’ve said all along I don’t believe JW is a good enough actor for the part and Chibnail certainly isn’t a good enough writer / show runner. The show can withstand one of those two being wrong for a time, but both at the same time is a perfect storm...
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
29,185
Likes
14,890
Points
309
Were you familiar with Jodie before DW? I'd known of her since Venus and always found her excellent, maybe that's why I have no problem with her as the Doc. I think she's performing the role as written.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
2,761
Likes
3,570
Points
184
Were you familiar with Jodie before DW? I'd known of her since Venus and always found her excellent, maybe that's why I have no problem with her as the Doc. I think she's performing the role as written.
I had seen one or two things with her in but she had not appeared on my radar at all as it were.
 
Top