Doctor Who 2 (Avast! There Be Spoilers!)

GNC

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Seems fans loved that the latest episode tackled mental health, but many hated the Doc and Graham's exchange about his cancer fears:
News story

I didn't have a problem with it, she clearly didn't want to talk about or even think about losing one of her friends, hence her awkwardness. I don't think it's to do with her alien side, she's just more comfortable taking on threats to the universe.
 

Fluttermoth

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Were you familiar with Jodie before DW? I'd known of her since Venus and always found her excellent, maybe that's why I have no problem with her as the Doc. I think she's performing the role as written.
Maybe so; I saw her in a production of Antigone (with Christopher Eccelston, coincidentally) and loved her performance, before I saw her in Who, and I like her Doctor a lot.
 

GNC

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I think she's right for the Doctor, she has the energy and curiosity of Troughton, McCoy, Smith and Davison, with a bit of Tom Baker thrown in as well.
Yes, the last thing the series needs is a boring Doctor. She may be polarising, but she's not boring.
 

GNC

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Maybe so; I saw her in a production of Antigone (with Christopher Eccelston, coincidentally) and loved her performance, before I saw her in Who, and I like her Doctor a lot.
She had been in Broadchurch, which was a big TV show, just before DW. I didn't watch that, but I believe she was praised there too.
 

GNC

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Ah, the old fake out, the historical episode that turns out to be part of the story arc! Is this the first time we've heard Byron's poetry on prime time TV since the 1950s? Some pretty funny stuff in the first half, then it reminded me of Sapphire and Steel very strongly, no bad thing. Liked the design on the broken Cyberman, but again, loads of questions. Like how did Captain Jack know about all this?

Anyway, the next series starts filming in the Autumn, for a Christmas special and 2021 start for the rest, so we won't have to wait a year this time. Jodie's back, Chris is back - but nobody seems to know if the companions will be - Toisin Cole has a job lined up in the US, so presumably will be trying out an American accent for the foreseeable. Will all three be Cyberised like Bill?!
 

Roland Deschain

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I have tried so hard to get onboard but no, it’s not happening. It’s a bunch of 2 x 4s plus Bradley Walsh. I just don’t see any acting from Jodie Whittaker that meshes with the Doctor at all. Get rid of this doctor and bring on River Song to bridge the gap.

What is most cringeworthy is when the Doc is supposed to deliver their lines in the style of “I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger” you know, those threats about about defending Earth and all that. Sadly it comes out as Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows la la la la.

Yeah I know it’s a kids show but jeeze they’ve given up on it.
 

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What is most cringeworthy is when the Doc is supposed to deliver their lines in the style of “I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger” you know, those threats about about defending Earth and all that. Sadly it comes out as Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows la la la la.
I loved the bit where the Doctor left to find out what the cyberman was looking for - she made the speech I think you may be referring to? About nobody else being harmed? Thought she nailed it!
 

Roland Deschain

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Actually there is more than a bit of Bubble in Whittaker’s Doctor, it hadn’t occurred to me before!
Also the Sonic Screwdriver has gone from multi tool to Fairy/Harry Potters magic wand, just swing it about manically with no real focus or intent and it gives you exactly what you need. Saves all that tricky script writing.
 

GNC

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I think the kids would be disappointed if the Doc didn't use her sonic screwdriver at least once an episode. Or the adults, if they're playing a drinking game.
 

Roland Deschain

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I loved the bit where the Doctor left to find out what the cyberman was looking for - she made the speech I think you may be referring to? About nobody else being harmed? Thought she nailed it!
The Doctor has been saying things like this for series after series, and this was possibly a bit stronger in detail but, for me personally, it was weak. To be fair plenty of the guys have failed this at times but not as consistently as Whittaker.

So I’m saying a made up character is, IMO not acting as I expect them to LOL yeah perhaps I should quit now,
 

Roland Deschain

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So with Bubble now able to do Vulcan mind melds and the Cybermen revealed to be the Borg, can we expect to see a Holodeck or maybe a Ferengi or two next week?
Yep the Tardis is a holo deck. It’s not really bigger inside it just looks it, overturning nearly 60 years of storytelling. Also the whole thing is a delusion in the mind of a Borg cyber man Borg undergoing assimilation. The franchise ends on a rapidly zooming out shot of the hallucinating drone aboard a cube ship to the theme tune of Blake’s 7.
 
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I have to say I am loving Jodie as the Dr. I wasn't sure to start - I was worried that the show had decided to bow to pressure and appoint a woman for the sake of it. (don't get me wrong, a female Dr Who was well over due, I meant just that they had picked a female for the point and not because they wanted it). But by the end of the first episode with her, I was in love with Jodie as the Dr. Peter Capaldi didn't always do it for me, so I felt JW and the companions were a breath of fresh air.

Also I am more than happy with the LGBTQ+ elements of the show. They are bringing in so many of these characters and treating them as normal - if only all TV shows could do the same.

That said, I was a little unsure of Sunday's episode - why would she disregard Jack's warning about the lone Cyberman? I felt she gave him what he wanted way too soon.
 

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@Little_grey_lady I said in another place that what clinched it for me was being at a convention and all the wee /girls/ were dressed up as her :D That's not what happened before - boys chose their favourite Doctor and the girls did monsters or other characters.

In the other forum I posted this (with delight and a lovely YES! feeling) one of the other posters couldn't grasp that actually being the Doctor was something that /all/ children could now aspire too - he just couldn't grasp why the girls liked having the option of being the main character...

Why can't they just go on being companions?
After a while you have to just walk away....
 

blessmycottonsocks

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@Little_grey_lady I said in another place that what clinched it for me was being at a convention and all the wee /girls/ were dressed up as her :D That's not what happened before - boys chose their favourite Doctor and the girls did monsters or other characters.

In the other forum I posted this (with delight and a lovely YES! feeling) one of the other posters couldn't grasp that actually being the Doctor was something that /all/ children could now aspire too - he just couldn't grasp why the girls liked having the option of being the main character...

After a while you have to just walk away....
But what about all those boys who can't play the role of Ellen Ripley, Lara Croft, Xena Warrior Princess, Daenerys Targaryen or Uma Thurman in Kill Bill?
Should every major movie or TV role offer alternatives in both sexes (not forgetting LGBT variants)?
 

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Should every major movie or TV role offer alternatives in both sexes (not forgetting LGBT variants)?
Those are characters which are one person :) In ensemble pieces like GoT there's lots of choice as it is.

Should every major movie or TV role offer alternatives in both sexes (not forgetting LGBT variants)?
A bit hyperbolic? :) Some characters are played by a succession of actors - Dr Who is one of them. People are behaving as if one female means there will never be a male again.

Edit to ask @blessmycottonsocks - do you get a good feeling about the weans who can now be The Doctor without people saying "no you can't, you can only be a companion"?
 

gordonrutter

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Edit to ask @blessmycottonsocks - do you get a good feeling about the weans who can now be The Doctor without people saying "no you can't, you can only be a companion"?
Plenty of conventions have always had females cos playing as their favourite Doctor. My experience in general is that Dr Who fandom is accepting and just the fact that people are celebrating their love of the show is enough, however they want to do it.
 

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That's true - but now people who /couldn't/ before are able to. It's now open to more people.
 

GNC

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But what about all those boys who can't play the role of Ellen Ripley, Lara Croft, Xena Warrior Princess, Daenerys Targaryen or Uma Thurman in Kill Bill?
Should every major movie or TV role offer alternatives in both sexes (not forgetting LGBT variants)?
I really don't think little kids should be watching Aliens, GoT or Kill Bill, for a start.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I really don't think little kids should be watching Aliens, GoT or Kill Bill, for a start.
That may possibly explain my dislike of the latest incarnation of DW.
I was that archetypal little boy, peeping out from behind the sofa at some of the scariest late 60s and early 70s DW stories.
DW was, for me an older avuncular sort of figure throughout the Troughton and Pertwee years. Then Tom Baker - surely the best Doctor by far, brought a brilliant air of anarchy and borderline insanity to the role. Those were the golden years. Capaldi brought some much needed gravitas back to the role and rang some faint echos of those early days, but this latest lightweight fluff with Whittaker just strikes me as a sell-out of what DW ought to be.

I guess I need to move on and accept that DW is never going to recapture those gothic chills of the early days.
That last episode though - haunting at Villa Diodati, was easily the most atmospheric of the Whittaker era, but I couldn't help feeling how much better it would have been with Tom Baker, Pertwee or Troughton at the helm (and without the utterly superfluous batch of current companions).
 

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Doctor Who has always been a product of the time it was made. Look at the Tom Baker stories that had the Hammer Horror feel to them. Both Who and Hammer did all the gothic stories that were popular in the seventies. Time and tastes have moved on, even if the whiners haven't....

Not that anyone here is a whiner....
 

blessmycottonsocks

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"Look at the Tom Baker stories that had the Hammer Horror feel to them. Both Who and Hammer did all the gothic stories that were popular in the seventies"

Exactly. Those, along with several Pertwee era stories were, for me, the absolute highlights of the whole DW saga. It's difficult not to compare that golden age with the more recent lightweight material. I don't believe such unfavourable comparisons are all down to me being several decades older now!
 
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GNC

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A timely reminder that nobody hates DW more than DW fans:
DW article

The article starts out quoting scathing fan reviews of the classic story The Deadly Assassin, then points out fans loudly complaining about their latest Doctor goes back to... Patrick Troughton, in 1967! Worth a read, if only to point out how enjoyable the programme is to discuss.
 

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Seems fans loved that the latest episode tackled mental health, but many hated the Doc and Graham's exchange about his cancer fears:
News story

I didn't have a problem with it, she clearly didn't want to talk about or even think about losing one of her friends, hence her awkwardness. I don't think it's to do with her alien side, she's just more comfortable taking on threats to the universe.
I saw it as the Doctor not having an easy answer for Graham's fears, and says she's going to "go over here and in a minute think up something reassuring I should have said right now" - she wasn't ignoring his fears, she didn't know how to make those fears less worrisome.
 

GNC

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I saw it as the Doctor not having an easy answer for Graham's fears, and says she's going to "go over here and in a minute think up something reassuring I should have said right now" - she wasn't ignoring his fears, she didn't know how to make those fears less worrisome.
Yes, I think you're right, and the BBC responded to those uneasy about that scene:
BBC response

...which confirms we were correct, she was supposed to be sympathetic for those who just don't know what to say when their friends or family try to open up about their problems. I could certainly sympathise, not everyone has had counsellor training after all, a lot of times you don't know what to say so make a joke and hope it'll work out anyway. It was a really nice little scene, I thought, and I'm sorry it's been so controversial.
 
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