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Doctor Who [Spoilers]

Did not watch. After they trashed it all, I’m done with it.
Best idea. Nobody could defend that slow motion car crash with a straight face. It had what I assumed were funny references to other movies but on reflection may have been plagiarism while they assembled all the antagonists new who has ever had in one lame story line.
 
I thought it was really entertaining. Got to remember it’s a kids show. My 10yr old and 8yr old had the perfect reaction of enthralment and fear. They can’t wait until next week’s episode.
 
I thought it was really entertaining. Got to remember it’s a kids show. My 10yr old and 8yr old had the perfect reaction of enthralment and fear. They can’t wait until next week’s episode.
Spongebob is a kids show and has cohesive plots an understandable narrative. It’s great!
Tonight’s big chunk of licence fees spending, not so much.
 
Spongebob is a kids show and has cohesive plots an understandable narrative. It’s great!
Tonight’s big chunk of licence fees spending, not so much.

I think people take it far too seriously. I just put my feet up, relax and let myself be entertained. It’s fantasy sci-fi, meant for kids; for which it does its job brilliantly. Does it all make sense? No, of course it doesn’t. Is it daft? Of course it is. Does it matter? Not a sausage

A few years back I found myself overanalysing everything I watched and realised I wasn’t enjoying anything. I made the conscious decision to just let myself be entertained and not worry about continuity and accuracy. Best decision I made. And if I’m not enjoying something, I stop watching it.

;0)
 
I think people take it far too seriously. I just put my feet up, relax and let myself be entertained. It’s fantasy sci-fi, meant for kids; for which it does its job brilliantly. Does it all make sense? No, of course it doesn’t. Is it daft? Of course it is. Does it matter? Not a sausage

A few years back I found myself overanalysing everything I watched and realised I wasn’t enjoying anything. I made the conscious decision to just let myself be entertained and not worry about continuity and accuracy. Best decision I made. And if I’m not enjoying something, I stop watching it.

;0)

That's the spirit! They had Chewbacca AND Skeletor in it, what more do you want? High stakes ridiculousness, a bit of educational stuff (Joseph Williamson really did dig tunnels under Liverpool - didn't know that), some baddies returned, mysteries thrown about like confetti, references for the nerds. Ideal to chill to on a Sunday night.
 
I think people take it far too seriously. I just put my feet up, relax and let myself be entertained. It’s fantasy sci-fi, meant for kids; for which it does its job brilliantly. Does it all make sense? No, of course it doesn’t. Is it daft? Of course it is. Does it matter? Not a sausage

A few years back I found myself overanalysing everything I watched and realised I wasn’t enjoying anything. I made the conscious decision to just let myself be entertained and not worry about continuity and accuracy. Best decision I made. And if I’m not enjoying something, I stop watching it.

;0)
If you lowered your expectations to meet the dumbed down and on mesage output of Hollywood and the BBC amongst others that’s great. I struggle to do that however and lament what we get now. As you do I will be avoiding this, I only had a look in to see Bishop.
 
I enjoyed it more than I expected to. Not hugely keen on the big dog fella, but Swarm looks genuinely creepy and Chibnall has set up enough plot threads to provide some interesting stuff for the next 5 episodes. Am hoping he can keep up the pace this episode has set.
 
I'd quite like an older black, male, Doctor.
Sort of like Colin Salmon, if not the man himself.

I fully understand the drive for youth (gotta get those social media clicks), but I do wonder if that comes at the price of acting and story-telling.
Andre Braugher would be my dream casting for the Doctor.
 
I enjoyed it. Just enough 'thrills and spills' for me (I can't take high tension TV these days) and enough laughs, peril and action to keep me entertained - ten year olds will love it.

My only problem was (and I admit this may be me getting old) muttered dialogue uttered at very high speed. David Tennant used to do this too, and I often had to watch again to understand what he said. No, I can't watch with subtitles on either. And Yorkshire accents are no impediment to me, here in darkest North Yorkshire, so it's not the accent. John Bishop, the dog alien and everyone else I could hear perfectly, but Jodie Whittaker and Yas were just squeaky gabbling for a lot of it.
 
If you lowered your expectations to meet the dumbed down and on mesage output of Hollywood and the BBC amongst others that’s great. I struggle to do that however and lament what we get now. As you do I will be avoiding this, I only had a look in to see Bishop.

To be fair though Doctor Who is a kids programme that went out on BBC1 at teatime on a Sunday.

I'm not expecting anything too cerebral, if I want that I'l head to The Expanse.
 
To be fair though Doctor Who is a kids programme that went out on BBC1 at teatime on a Sunday.

I'm not expecting anything too cerebral, if I want that I'l head to The Expanse.
This is what people lose sight of.

For those of us of the..ahem...older persuasion, there's all the mythos and backstory and all that surrounding the Doctor. For kids, it's just an adventure story, and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that this is all it purports to be. It's those of us with history with the programme that want more - and seem to feel that we are somehow owed expensive effects and in depth story telling. You wouldn't put on an episode of Worzel Gummidge and bemoan the fact that it's not got Silent Witness levels of effects, acting and storytelling, would you?

Doctor Who is decently done, but it's dragging its mythology behind it, which sometime shows. Especially when you get show runners who want it to be something it isn't. Kids' TV, with occasional nods to the past, that's all I ask for.
 
A few years back I found myself overanalysing everything I watched and realised I wasn’t enjoying anything. I made the conscious decision to just let myself be entertained and not worry about continuity and accuracy. Best decision I made. And if I’m not enjoying something, I stop watching it.
Quite! "How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Doctor Who". That is something I did a long time ago. It's an over-the-top, relatively low-budget BBC show which always had (and I hope always will have) ambitions that outweigh its practical limitations. Go there for some fun. But as Tegan's Auntie Vanessa memorably said "when you stop enjoying it, give it up".

That said, I really, really struggled with the sound last night (music and sound drowning out the dialogue in many of the action scenes) which was really annoying cos it took me out of 'The Zone'. It seems a lot of others are complaining of the same thing. And I don't get that with other tv programmes. I can't actually recall last night's big Universe-shredding cliffhanger because I was fretting about the weird distorted sound. And I felt the very silly and shouty opening sequence would have immediately put off the casual viewer tuning in to see what all the fuss what about. Catching the viewer's attention right from the start is one thing, but a bizarre, crazy, migraine-inducing, credulity-stretching assault on your Sunday evening sensibilities is likely to have the opposite effect. I know that my partner for one would have turned it off after those first 2 minutes - hah! As if I would let him get anywhere near the remote while Doctor Who is on!!

Anyway, onwards and upwards, as they say. Mary Secole and Sontarans in the Crimea next week. Bring it on!
 
Quite! "How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Doctor Who". That is something I did a long time ago. It's an over-the-top, relatively low-budget BBC show which always had (and I hope always will have) ambitions that outweigh its practical limitations. Go there for some fun. But as Tegan's Auntie Vanessa memorably said "when you stop enjoying it, give it up".

That said, I really, really struggled with the sound last night (music and sound drowning out the dialogue in many of the action scenes) which was really annoying cos it took me out of 'The Zone'. It seems a lot of others are complaining of the same thing. And I don't get that with other tv programmes. I can't actually recall last night's big Universe-shredding cliffhanger because I was fretting about the weird distorted sound. And I felt the very silly and shouty opening sequence would have immediately put off the casual viewer tuning in to see what all the fuss what about. Catching the viewer's attention right from the start is one thing, but a bizarre, crazy, migraine-inducing, credulity-stretching assault on your Sunday evening sensibilities is likely to have the opposite effect. I know that my partner for one would have turned it off after those first 2 minutes - hah! As if I would let him get anywhere near the remote while Doctor Who is on!!

Anyway, onwards and upwards, as they say. Mary Secole and Sontarans in the Crimea next week. Bring it on!
Those who want to watch, who know what the show is about, will watch past those first few minutes of shouty pointlessness. Those who don't aren't really going to watch the rest of the show anyway. They will say (as my ex did) that it's 'silly' or 'boring' or 'too complicated to follow'.

And yes, a lot of my problems with the sound came in the beginning couple of minutes. I couldn't even follow what they were talking about because I couldn't hear the words!
 
Those who want to watch, who know what the show is about, will watch past those first few minutes of shouty pointlessness. Those who don't aren't really going to watch the rest of the show anyway. They will say (as my ex did) that it's 'silly' or 'boring' or 'too complicated to follow'.

And yes, a lot of my problems with the sound came in the beginning couple of minutes. I couldn't even follow what they were talking about because I couldn't hear the words!
’Sound effects too loud for dialogue’ syndrome has become the normal setting in Sci-Fi films for quite a while so not a surprise to find it's spread to tv as well.

Could be that the dialogue is a bit shit & realising this, the producers ramp up the fx to cover. You just get the gist..
 
I agree, Catseye, but I think they would have done themselves a favour by starting with something that led into the story a bit more gently and effectively, either creepily (such as the Angel stalking Claire) or cataclysm-foreshadowing (such as Vinder seeing planets being consumed by the Flux) or even a bit of normal, light-hearted romancey stuff with John Bishop with a bit of intrigue at the end as a hook. I think any of those might have made a floating viewer stick with it until after the opening titles. That opening action sequence seemed so far-fetched and artificially realised that I was SURE it was going to turn out to be Yaz having a dream about all her anxieties about travelling with the Doctor. They drop into the TARDIS. Yaz wakes up. Doctor is at the TARDIS console. "Ready to go, Yaz?" "Yep!" Doctor slams down the big lever - and in crash the titles.
 
. You wouldn't put on an episode of Worzel Gummidge and bemoan the fact that it's not got Silent Witness levels of ... storytelling, would you?
Very true. I did see an episode of Worzel Gummidge a while back though that had Worzel pursuing Aunt Sally's affections with... how can I say this...a determination that would not be acceptable in modern society!
 
Those who want to watch, who know what the show is about, will watch past those first few minutes of shouty pointlessness. Those who don't aren't really going to watch the rest of the show anyway. They will say (as my ex did) that it's 'silly' or 'boring' or 'too complicated to follow'.

And yes, a lot of my problems with the sound came in the beginning couple of minutes. I couldn't even follow what they were talking about because I couldn't hear the words!
The sound mix was terrible.
 
I liked the shout-out to Joseph Williamson's tunnels. Very Fortean. Hopefully there will be more details in a later episode.
I agree. I'm very intrigued by the tunnel thing, both in real life now, and in Doctor Who. I reckon it will assume some significance as the six-parter unfurls. They went straight to it after the opening titles, and then forgot all about it until right at the end when Joseph Williamson popped up again a roll-call of what will surely be significant figures in this story.
 
I agree. I'm very intrigued by the tunnel thing, both in real life now, and in Doctor Who. I reckon it will assume some significance as the six-parter unfurls. They went straight to it after the opening titles, and then forgot all about it until right at the end when Joseph Williamson popped up again a roll-call of what will surely be significant figures in this story.

Williamson’s Tunnels


 
John Bishop will always be John Bishop, however.

Was he breaking those teeth in for a friend?

Watched it last night.
Hoots of derision at the appearance of Bungle/Chewbacca and whenever Ms Whittaker does her trademark slack-jawed, gormless, gob-smacked look it still makes me wince.

I've long-since given up on Doctor Who ever recapturing the Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker glory days, but I really can't tell what demographic it's aimed at these days. The appearance of Skeletor and the body disintegrations could well freak out younger viewers, but is the plot really intelligent enough for teenagers and older?
 
I agree. I'm very intrigued by the tunnel thing, both in real life now, and in Doctor Who. I reckon it will assume some significance as the six-parter unfurls. They went straight to it after the opening titles, and then forgot all about it until right at the end when Joseph Williamson popped up again a roll-call of what will surely be significant figures in this story.
That's how story telling goes. You plant an idea and then call back to it repeatedly until it reveals itself to be an integral part of the storyline.
Chris Chibnall may be a lot of things, but he knows how to tell the story.
 
That's how story telling goes. You plant an idea and then call back to it repeatedly until it reveals itself to be an integral part of the storyline.
Chris Chibnall may be a lot of things, but he knows how to tell the story.
Mr Williamson is obviously a VERY troubled man! I mean, just look at that face. For my money, that is the most intriguing aspect of the story so far. I really do hope Chibnall goes interesting places with it. I do love it when Doctor Who 'explains' real world mysteries. It makes me wonder what the real Joseph Williamson was up to. I suppose there must be some records about why he did all that stuff.
 
Oh, I do like the Sontarans, and I did like they were a real threat this time rather than the comedy characters they've turned into recently (though there was a bit of that). And the chief Sontaran was Jonathan Watson! A Scottish Sontaran! Great bit of casting. The serial format is really working out well for me, one of the best things about DW was always the cliffhangers.
 
Great episode tonight. Best one in ages. Tense, epic, intriguing, action-packed, good dialogue, fun and comedy bits that actually made me lol at least twice. The line about refilling a horse's nose bag made me chuckle, and Karvanista's 'dog shake' was brilliantly underplayed. At last Jodie's Doctor has a really good one under her belt. Not before time! I am a happy fanboy this evening.
 
You wouldn't put on an episode of Worzel Gummidge and bemoan the fact that it's not got Silent Witness levels of effects, acting and storytelling, would you?
Although there have been recent episodes of Silent Witness with Worzel Gummidge-levels of acting and storytelling.

I do agree though that as you say there's a purist approach to Who from people of.. ahem.. our age-range that you do see in many cultural zones. I was working in a Rock club in '91 when Metallica's Enter Sandman was first played, and half the crowd started muttering about how they'd sold out. For many it's not so much about the programme as the time (NPI) it best represents to them. Personally I regard parts of the Colin Baker/McCoy era as actually far worse than any of the modern-era output, but then again that's when I was of an age where I turned my back on "childish" things. My kids were of the right age to be swept along in the reboot and me along with them.

As for Jodie, she's done her best, but even Capaldi or Tennant couldn't have saved some of the dialogue she's been given. Sad to conclude, nonetheless, that she was miscast. Maybe Jo Martin should have had it from the off, but a woman of colour would be too much for many to cope with even as a concept.
 
Although there have been recent episodes of Silent Witness with Worzel Gummidge-levels of acting and storytelling.

I do agree though that as you say there's a purist approach to Who from people of.. ahem.. our age-range that you do see in many cultural zones. I was working in a Rock club in '91 when Metallica's Enter Sandman was first played, and half the crowd started muttering about how they'd sold out. For many it's not so much about the programme as the time (NPI) it best represents to them. Personally I regard parts of the Colin Baker/McCoy era as actually far worse than any of the modern-era output, but then again that's when I was of an age where I turned my back on "childish" things. My kids were of the right age to be swept along in the reboot and me along with them.

As for Jodie, she's done her best, but even Capaldi or Tennant couldn't have saved some of the dialogue she's been given. Sad to conclude, nonetheless, that she was miscast. Maybe Jo Martin should have had it from the off, but a woman of colour would be too much for many to cope with even as a concept.
I'm not sure she's so much miscast as that the nature of the Doctor has been misunderstood. Every time something puzzles the Doctor, she whips out her sonic screwdriver, quick scan and it tells her all she needs to know. The OLD Doctor would have known. He didn't need a screwdriver to tell him what close observation would have done.

The Doctor should always make you feel as though s/he's the most intelligent person in the room. Now I'm getting the feeling that the Doctor is someone who's got their hands on a gadget that perpetually tells them that they've left the iron on.
 
"The Doctor should always make you feel as though s/he's the most intelligent person in the room. "

Absobloodylutely!

Whittaker's trademark slack-jawed gormless gob-smacked expression when faced with any plot development that any previous Doctor would have taken in their stride, is what irritates me the most about her and, deservedly, draws parallels with Ab Fab's "Bubble".

Doctor.JPG
 
Another episode that I surprised myself by enjoying as much as I did. John Bishop's character is intriguing- I keep thinking maybe there's more to him than we've so far been led to believe. Also great to see Eddie from Brookside turning up!
 
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