Doctor Who [Spoilers]

Analogue Boy

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But surely the point of the Timeless Child was she/he was killed over and over with the exact aim of promoting regeneration?
 

Tigerhawk

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Well, she got exterminated several times, but she didn't regenerate once. As to why not, the best answer is because it was all a bit timey wimey. But you don't have too much longer to wait until she does regenerate into ... someone.
She does regenerate into
.



29b9c43055babfa451ff87512220e344.jpg
 

eburacum

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Peter Capaldi's doctor was killed billions of times while trying to escape the castle in 'Heaven Sent'. So Timelords can be repeatedly killed without regenerating, so long as certain timey-wimey constraints are observed.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Peter Capaldi's doctor was killed billions of times while trying to escape the castle in 'Heaven Sent'. So Timelords can be repeatedly killed without regenerating, so long as certain timey-wimey constraints are observed.
One of the very best stories since the DW 2005 reboot!

If you look at the events leading up to each regeneration though, a mortal wound or life-threatening condition does seem to figure prominently, so a bit hard to explain all those billions of deaths with the same old Doctor emerging each time.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_causes_of_regeneration
 

CharmerKamelion

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One of the very best stories since the DW 2005 reboot!

I love Doctor Who in all its many forms, and I'm usually prepared to cut it plenty of slack, but I have to say that I am one those (few?) who thought "Heaven Sent" was just a step too far in the direction of 'self-indulgent claptrap', and marginally worse than the episodes either side of it ("Face the Raven" and "Hell Bent"). The pinnacle of 'Moffat Madness' imho. But the show really is swings and roundabouts, and the diversity of stories and styles is reflected in the likes and dislikes of the fans, so if you are among those who saw much to enjoy in those episodes, I am genuinely pleased for you.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I love Doctor Who in all its many forms, and I'm usually prepared to cut it plenty of slack, but I have to say that I am one those (few?) who thought "Heaven Sent" was just a step too far in the direction of 'self-indulgent claptrap', and marginally worse than the episodes either side of it ("Face the Raven" and "Hell Bent"). The pinnacle of 'Moffat Madness' imho. But the show really is swings and roundabouts, and the diversity of stories and styles is reflected in the likes and dislikes of the fans, so if you are among those who saw much to enjoy in those episodes, I am genuinely pleased for you.

I did enjoy the allusion to something approaching eternity, which had vaguely James Joycian overtones.
That sense of wonder seems to have been totally lost in the Whittaker "saves the universe again with her bloody sonic" era.
 

GNC

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The sonic let her down last weekend - the Daleks have her number. The rumour is her piggybacking on the Sontarans' mass murder plan are about to have serious consequences over Jodie's last two episodes, so she has a reckoning coming that presumably leads to her regeneration. We'll see.
 

Kryptonite

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Sea Devils! I've been hoping since 2005 that we'd get them back! Hopefully it'll be a better written story than many of the episodes over the last few years.
 

CharmerKamelion

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At least they look reasonably like the originals (the 1972 models), unlike the 1980s effort. Or the dreadful 'update' of the Silurians (reptiles with oddly mammalian bumps in their armour and no third eye? Travesty!). I wouldn't mind if the Sea Devils are still sporting that characteristic string vest chic. I suspect they'll have a bit of a re-fit though.
 

Peripart

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They've done the Companion-In-Love-With-The-Doctor before - Rose, Martha,Adric,Turlough...

Well, Adric might well have had a crush on the Doctor. Turlough on the other hand tried to crush the Doctor's skull. Always thought the Brig had a bit of thing for the Third Doctor. I think the poor chap found it hard to adjust when he turned into Tom!!

I always felt that Adric looked to the Doctor as a father figure. I don't think that the writers intended any romantic undertones. Again, Turlough latched onto the Doctor as a fellow alien on Earth, I don't remember it being much more than that. Useless fact - I got Mark Strickson's autograph in one of my Target novelisations. Don't have it now, don't know why I mention it really...
 

CharmerKamelion

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Useless fact - I got Mark Strickson's autograph in one of my Target novelisations. Don't have it now, don't know why I mention it really...
Hey, so have I. Mark Strickson signed my copy of Stephen Gallagher's Target novelisation of "Terminus". He used a really thick black marker pen and it's a bit hard to make out. Spooky that you should mention it a bit randomly after quoting my post. I also have a copy of Terrance Dicks' "Genesis of the Daleks" signed by Tom Baker in 1977. He did a book signing at a small newsagent's in Borehamwood. There was a massive queue of hundreds of kids, mostly aged about 5-8 years old. And me, a gawky spotty 15 year old. Tom didn't half give me a funny look.
 

Peripart

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Hey, so have I. Mark Strickson signed my copy of Stephen Gallagher's Target novelisation of "Terminus". He used a really thick black marker pen and it's a bit hard to make out. Spooky that you should mention it a bit randomly after quoting my post. I also have a copy of Terrance Dicks' "Genesis of the Daleks" signed by Tom Baker in 1977. He did a book signing at a small newsagent's in Borehamwood. There was a massive queue of hundreds of kids, mostly aged about 5-8 years old. And me, a gawky spotty 15 year old. Tom didn't half give me a funny look.

It might well have been Terminus that he signed for me. I remember it was at a Dr Who convention in Swindon, of all places!

I do also have Tom Baker's autograph somewhere. 2, in fact - one in his autobiography (pre-signed, I didn't meet him on that occasion), and one much earlier, a signed Polaroid of me with him at a charity cricket match.
 

catseye

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I always thought Turlough kind of came round to admiring the Doctor, after trying to kill him. It was the only person that he could see who was as intelligent as Turlough himself. Never thought he loved him, though.

I've just watched the NYD episode. Really really enjoyed it, it was nice to see time being played with a bit. And the Doctor using intelligence to solve a problem rather than that bloody sonic (even though that got waved around WAY too much for me. Did the Doctor seriously need the sonic to tell her she was in Manchester on New Year's Eve? Couldn't she have tasted the air to find out where she was, and then got the date from the girl's phone?),
 

CharmerKamelion

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I've just watched the NYD episode. Really really enjoyed it, it was nice to see time being played with a bit. And the Doctor using intelligence to solve a problem rather than that bloody sonic (even though that got waved around WAY too much for me. Did the Doctor seriously need the sonic to tell her she was in Manchester on New Year's Eve? Couldn't she have tasted the air to find out where she was, and then got the date from the girl's phone?),
Agreed. I re-watched the NYD episode today and it was even more fun second time around. Quite a relief after feeling a little bit underwhelmed about 'Flux'. And yes, she does wave That Bloody Sonic (that is actually its official name now) around far too much, but tbh I hardly really notice it anymore. It's just what she does. But I like her more and more. She was pretty good in this one. I think I will be sorry to see her go... but then I am always sorry to see a Doctor go.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Two threads on Dr Who have now been merged here. To commemorate this glorious union, I give you an affectedly frank portrait of a day in the life of Tom Baker—a most enjoyable read.

View attachment 50969

Brilliant!
That was the very sentiment Tom injected into playing the Doctor - struggling to keep barely one step ahead of insanity.
 
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catseye

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I always think that they did right when they cast Tom Baker. The Doctor really 'should' project an aura of alienness - of being thousands of years older than anyone he is talking to and orders of magnitude more intelligent. Lately they've taken to casting someone more 'accessible'. I've nothing against Jodie Whittaker, but she does rather give the air of a Doctor who is ever so slightly out of their depth and waiting for a suggestion (and relies far, far too heavily on That Bloody Sonic'). I thought David Tennant and Peter Capaldi did the 'switch' from 'appealing, human-looking-and-behaving' to 'someone whose thought processess you couldn't even guess at' really well. Chris Ecclestone was well alien though, and some of the others from Nu-Who are just too human.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Sadly, I can’t imagine Jodie’s Doctor being regarded as anything other than The Village Idiot by all the other Time Lords.

Every time she does her trade-mark gormless, slack-jawed look, I just wish one of her "fam" would reach over, put their hand under her chin and shut her gob for her!

jaw.png
 

CharmerKamelion

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To be fair, Tom did frequently do the 'gormless, slack-jawed look' thing. I always kind of like it when the Doctor (any of them) seems happy to be viewed as a simpleton, e.g. Troughton acting stupid when being assessed as a threat by the Dominators, Tom goofing about to wrong-foot Count Scarlioni ("my dear, nobody could be as stupid as he seems"), Tennant play-acting the pisshead to rescue Rose & Mickey from the Clockwork Droids.... probably lots of other examples. That's probably why I don't mind Jodie coming across like that, even if it does happen a little too often!
 

Analogue Boy

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To be fair, Tom did frequently do the 'gormless, slack-jawed look' thing. I always kind of like it when the Doctor (any of them) seems happy to be viewed as a simpleton, e.g. Troughton acting stupid when being assessed as a threat by the Dominators, Tom goofing about to wrong-foot Count Scarlioni ("my dear, nobody could be as stupid as he seems"), Tennant play-acting the pisshead to rescue Rose & Mickey from the Clockwork Droids.... probably lots of other examples. That's probably why I don't mind Jodie coming across like that, even if it does happen a little too often!
Tom also did smouldering intensity, humour bordering on insanity and fury.
I think they called it ‘range’ back then.
 

CharmerKamelion

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They still call it 'range' today. Tom was always marvellous, and still the definitive Doctor for me. Undoubtedly he was made for the role and vice versa. I genuinely think we might not have the show today were it not for his barnstorming interpretation really cementing it as an institution. Even when he was bonkers, I loved him. But all of them have had varying degrees of 'range' imho and I prefer the quieter, less angry Doctors (Troughton, Davison, Whittaker) to the sometimes rather forced spluttering anger of Colin, Sylvester, Eccleston, Capaldi. Just my personal opinion. I quite like that Jodie's Doctor has a thread of not quite being 'on it' a lot of the time, like the Doctor is out of her depth. That reminds me of Troughton and Davison too. Often feels like they're going to lose.
 
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catseye

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They still call it 'range' today. Tom was always marvellous, and still the definitive Doctor for me. Undoubetdly he was made for the role and vice versa. I genuinely think we might not have the show today were it not for his barnstorming interpretation really cementing it as an institution. Even when he was bonkers, I loved him. But all of them have had varying degrees of 'range' imho and I prefer the quieter, less angry Doctors (Troughton, Davison, Whittaker) to the sometimes rather forced spluttering anger of Colin, Sylvester, Eccleston, Capaldi. Just my personal opinion. I quite like that Jodie's Doctor has a thread of not quite being 'on it' a lot of the time, like the Doctor is out of her depth. That reminds me of Troughton and Davison too. Often feels like they're going to lose.
I think Jodie's expression has been described by others as 'Did I leave the iron on?'

I like my Doctor to 'feel' alien. Like there are layers of experience that no human can relate to. And also the most intelligent person in the room, even if, sometimes, the odds do seem against them.
 
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