Does Magick Work?

[Floyd]

Said neighbours turned up on Monday night, having been away for three full calendar months.

Nice, while it lasted!

So far, they have seemed subdued in their noise levels; have they been socialized, during their vacation?

Time will tell. I am keeping that spell bookmarked, in case of future need!

It's a terrible thing to have to deal with, as anyone who has experienced it well knows. Even when nothing is happening you're still on edge waiting for it to start. Keep us informed James.

 

[Twigwidge]

W

JerryB - we could argue this forever.
Your position as sceptical enquirer (ho ho) is entirely correct and I would not argue against it for a moment ...

"I feel more connected."
"I know it works."

The verb in the first statement is as wishy-washy unprovable subjective and inexact as anyone could want, and despite the apparent stern confidence of the verb in the second, there is no objective assertion there ... what I know isn't necessarily what you know - or what is "correct".

My point is exactly this I do NOT know whether any of this is to do with external realities or psychosomatic suggestion. I honestly do not know - it's not discursive rhetoric, I really have no idea.

I am open to the possibility that there are external forces at work .... afterall, surely FT and this message-board are mainly about the possibility of such possibilities ......

However it is equally Fortean (and also falls within my world view) to be prepared to accept the possibility that the human mind is capable of amazing things we do not fully understand ......

(I have always been as fascinated with what would make someone decide to perpetrate a hoax, or what shared delusional experiences say about the human species as with the possibility of the objective reality of e.g. aliens ... ghosts ......... magic(k)).

As I have said, my thinking on the subject of the outside/inside possibilities of what is occuring changes from moment to moment.

When I read the tarot do unseen discarnate forces determine what card turns up where, sending me a message across unknowable dimensions ... and if so are we talking collective unconscious, souls of the dead, demons, angels, pixies, god?
or is my souped-up monkey brain seeing the patterns that make most sense to it in a random selection of images with suitably vague meanings arbitrarily attached, like seeing a face in running water? (heh heh cold reading myself!!)

I do not know.

All I know is that it means something to me.
And the more I believe that it will mean something, the more it does.

So I choose to believe that magic(k) works.

Sometimes I believe that I am in the presence of the one all-knowing almighty god(dess) (who I have down more in a buddhist-y oneness-of-everything kind of way, rather than some bad tempered guy with the beard), and sometimes I think I am metaprogramming my mind, trying to instill new patterns of behaviour that will make me happier by a rather elabourate process of self-hypnosis ..... or even just spending some quality time with myself in a quiet room for half an hour a day, doing something no one is making me do (rare enough treat!) and everything else is coincidence and self-delusion.

I really don't know.

All I know is ...... (wait for it) .... it works!

Wonderfully said!

 

[m fidget]

Fascinating thread. Personally, I think the extent to which lil K magic works is similar to how visualization techniques as popularized yrs ago by The Secret and employed by Tiger Woods eg work.

I‘ve found solace in reading and following books then riffing my own candle magic, sigils, protective runes. Maybe it was like when I smoked cigarettes. Going to another place, going outside, going away and deep breathing were parts of why I liked it so much. As I picked up the thread of mindfulness I began to drop the magic one but I still do some now n then.

Tarot is a wonderful tool but there‘s a danger when it or anything is used compulsively. In a confusing world on fire who doesn't want guidance?

Big K magick’s efficacy, to me, is evident in the sad ends of Crowley, Parsons eg. Just cuz I dont think their magick wasn’t efficacious doesn’t lessen their importance tho.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Fascinating thread. Personally, I think the extent to which lil K magic works is similar to how visualization techniques as popularized yrs ago by The Secret and employed by Tiger Woods eg work.

I‘ve found solace in reading and following books then riffing my own candle magic, sigils, protective runes. Maybe it was like when I smoked cigarettes. Going to another place, going outside, going away and deep breathing were parts of why I liked it so much. As I picked up the thread of mindfulness I began to drop the magic one but I still do some now n then.

Tarot is a wonderful tool but there‘s a danger when it or anything is used compulsively. In a confusing world on fire who doesn't want guidance?

Big K magick’s efficacy, to me, is evident in the sad ends of Crowley, Parsons eg. Just cuz I dont think their magick wasn’t efficacious doesn’t lessen their importance tho.

Interesting that nowadays techniques like visualisation are now routinely used by top sports people, positive thinking (aka law of attraction) can boost your mental and physical wellbeing, meditating and mindfulness are great for combating life's stresses, hypnotherapy is a reputable medical tool for treating severe anxiety etc.
Not so long ago though such practices would be regarded as pseudoscience and, a few centuries ago, could possibly get you burnt at the stake!

 

[ThatOneNihilist]

If you mean showy magic then no, the term magic is an oversimplification of a larger idea, a relationship between the observer and that which is seen, an understanding of that which is and that which could be, without the experience of that which is, you become like a blind person, stumbling in the dark, therein lies one of the particular difficulties regarding magic and the occult as a whole, the subjective experiential nature of it and so sometimes requires a shifting of ones perspective.

 

[skinny]

If you mean showy magic then no, the term magic is an oversimplification of a larger idea, a relationship between the observer and that which is seen, an understanding of that which is and that which could be, without the experience of that which is, you become like a blind person, stumbling in the dark, therein lies one of the particular difficulties regarding magic and the occult as a whole, the subjective experiential nature of it and so sometimes requires a shifting of ones perspective.

But what exactly do you mean?

 

[ThatOneNihilist]

But what exactly do you mean?

To conduct or understand magic you have two main factors, the will and the eye, the eye being the perspective, that which is the observer, it is that which the will is focused through, every perspective true in its nature, though may produce different results, a prism. when one conducts ritualistic magic and does not see the results they expected, it is the error of perspective rather than the ritual itself.

 

[Floyd]

@Spookdaddy Spook, now you're back (to bring much needed sanity and reason) I want to ask you something about an incident that allegedly happened in the peak district in the 1970s to see if you can shed some light on it, as I can't seem to find much info around now and have forgotten all the details. Shall I p/m you?

 

[Coal]

@Spookdaddy Spook, now you're back (to bring much needed sanity and reason) I want to ask you something about an incident that allegedly happened in the peak district in the 1970s to see if you can shed some light on it, as I can't seem to find much info around now and have forgotten all the details. Shall I p/m you?

You have my attention...

 

[Floyd]

You have my attention...

Well I haven't got much to go on, that's why I was asking the spookster if he had heard about, it before I mentioned it on here. It was more of a 'black magic' event apparently.

 

[Spookdaddy]

@Spookdaddy Spook, now you're back (to bring much needed sanity and reason) I want to ask you something about an incident that allegedly happened in the peak district in the 1970s to see if you can shed some light on it, as I can't seem to find much info around now and have forgotten all the details. Shall I p/m you?

Feel free to PM me, or just put it up here. I'm kind of intrigued. (Have to say that I've not heard much of that kind of thing in the Peak District myself - apart from allegations in regard to the ominously named but rather peaceful Infidels Cemetery near Ashford in the Water, which I'm pretty sure were entirely made up by someone sexing up a supposed ghost hunt.)

 

[Floyd]

Feel free to PM me, or just put it up here. I'm kind of intrigued. (Have to say that I've not heard much of that kind of thing in the Peak District myself - apart from allegations in regard to the ominously named but rather peaceful Infidels Cemetery near Ashford in the Water, which I'm pretty sure were entirely made up by someone sexing up a supposed ghost hunt.)

Hey Spook, regarding the Cemetery; I had not heard of this, but I wonder if it's this one between Ashford and Monsal dale marked on the photo. My Grandad and I used to walk all over that area when I was younger, (on the old railway etc), and one bright, sunny day we had a look in here. It doesn't appear that it is looked after nowadays, but at the time we had no problem getting in. I remember a foreboding feeling and just wanted to get out.

 

[Sid]

The other day, in need of something to read while having a solitary coffee in a cafe, instead of buying a magazine, I got a little book of Pocket Spells. Some of them sound rather useful. Does anyone on this board practise magick? Do any of these spells actually work?

Carole

"Ha!" I'm going to have a go - and cast a 'spell'. . . "Hubble, Bubble, Toil & Trouble" . . .


Does Magick work? No, not if it includes 'k!'

 

[Spookdaddy]

Hey Spook, regarding the Cemetery; I had not heard of this, but I wonder if it's this one between Ashford and Monsal dale marked on the photo. My Grandad and I used to walk all over that area when I was younger, (on the old railway etc), and one bright, sunny day we had a look in here. It doesn't appear that it is looked after nowadays, but at the time we had no problem getting in. I remember a foreboding feeling and just wanted to get out...

It is indeed this place. It was a Baptist burial ground - I think associated to a chapel which is now long gone. None of the headstones have any biblical references at all, which presumably caused an unease amongst worshippers of more established religion which lead to the 'Infidels' reference.

I never found it particularly spooky - but then I generally don't find such places so; I've always suspected that the if ghosts do exist, then graveyards are about the last place you'll find them.

 

[Floyd]

It is indeed this place. It was a Baptist burial ground - I think associated to a chapel which is now long gone. None of the headstones have any biblical references at all, which presumably caused an unease amongst worshippers of more established religion which lead to the 'Infidels' reference.

I never found it particularly spooky - but then I generally don't find such places so; I've always suspected that the if ghosts do exist, then graveyards are about the last place you'll find them.

That's interesting then. It's always stuck in my mind how weird/foreboding it felt to me in there. Bearing in mind that it was daytime, I was with someone else and I too have never felt unease in any other graveyard (even at night).

 

[Spookdaddy]

That's interesting then. It's always stuck in my mind how weird/foreboding it felt to me in there. Bearing in mind that it was daytime, I was with someone else and I too have never felt unease in any other graveyard (even at night).

It's actually a pretty short detour away from one of my favourite walks. Next time I'm home I'm going to give it another visit, and see if my opinion has changed.

 

[Floyd]

It's actually a pretty short detour away from one of my favourite walks. Next time I'm home I'm going to give it another visit, and see if my opinion has changed.

Good lad.

An old map from early 1900s. No sign of a chapel.

 

[Floyd]

It's actually a pretty short detour away from one of my favourite walks. Next time I'm home I'm going to give it another visit, and see if my opinion has changed.

Hey Spook.
Did you manage to get back here yet?

 

[Spookdaddy]

Hey Spook.
Did you manage to get back here yet?

No, not yet. I've been promising myself that walk since the summer - but a sudden surge in work commitments has temporarily put the kibosh on it. I've actually had it mind to head that way next week, before I get sucked into my next contract - but we'll have to see.

I quite like the blustery autumn days for walking, and that weird atmosphere that sometimes drops as the afternoon light starts to fade. Very MR James. Especially when looking for lost burial grounds.

 

[Floyd]

I quite like the blustery autumn days for walking, and that weird atmosphere that sometimes drops as the afternoon light starts to fade. Very MR James. Especially when looking for lost burial grounds.

Yes, me too. In fact, when I look on google streetview (as with Hassop etc just now) I realise that I perhaps didn't appreciate the area as much as I should have done, certainly not until I was in my twenties and by then I wasn't around there as much then anyway.

I recall many *Autumn and Winter weekends up on the moors, in the woods and by the river freezing to death* and going home usually soaking wet and with near frostbite.

*even in Summer, if you get my meaning*.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Sorry, we're taking this way off thread, but hey:

...An old map from early 1900s. No sign of a chapel.

Just zoomed past the burial ground on Street View and there are obvious signs of dressed and mortared stonework along the line of the dry stone wall which runs along the road side - so I suspect the mysterious chapel shared the same space as the burial ground itself (some reports infer that it was in a nearby but separate location).

I thought I might have some photos, but the only one I have which covers the site is from quite a distance - over the fields, to the NW:

The so-called Infidels Graveyard/Cemetery is situated within the clump of trees just slightly to the right of centre.

 

[skinny]

This man has a worthwhile response to the titular question. It is long, but it isn't a ramble. If you are sincere in your interest, you will find practical guidance and development. If your agenda is merely to criticise, don't waste your time. This one's for those who grow. I've been listening to a broad variety of voices on magic for several years, and this is a good summary of the most authentic ideas I've heard and tested so far.

2 nights ago, I had a very direct sight of a physical aerial phenomenon I've never seen before. It was not the first time, but it was the most direct response to the variety of calls I've been sending out. I have been noticed. I am outside in the bush at night every other day, and I keep all senses open That in itself is greatly beneficial. It gives me time outside the physical and social boxes and tunes my senses in to the universe that's having me. No dramas. No woo.

part 2

 

[lordmongrove]

The bizarre world of online rituals.
https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2024..._NzxlDSgjY7gx2fKhg_aem_fw-K-Lk4_2iBQmsCTg4dDA

 

[Iris]

Don't know if this belongs here.
I was wondering if that billionaire who drowned and his partner who was run over after being acquitted of fraud might have been magicked in some way?

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Sorry, we're taking this way off thread, but hey:



Just zoomed past the burial ground on Street View and there are obvious signs of dressed and mortared stonework along the line of the dry stone wall which runs along the road side - so I suspect the mysterious chapel shared the same space as the burial ground itself (some reports infer that it was in a nearby but separate location).

I thought I might have some photos, but the only one I have which covers the site is from quite a distance - over the fields, to the NW:

View attachment 60486

The so-called Infidels Graveyard/Cemetery is situated within the clump of trees just slightly to the right of centre.

View attachment 60487

My old schoolfriend's dad was the farmer who owned what had been an 1830s' cholera burial ground. A good two or more miles out of the village and nowhere close to the parish church - to the point it was actually in the neighbouring parish. It just looked like a regular arable field. But it had a drystone wall - not uncommon generally round there but uncommon in that village, to the point it was the only field with a wall.

He knocked down a fair bit of it to get his machinery in, probably in the 1970s so it was intact for much of its length then had a wrecked bit. He died and the field was sold.

The last time I saw it, the drystone wall was entirely gone.

Mate told me her dad grew wheat for a very well known brand of wheat cereal, there. I never ate it again.

There was never a plaque or anything, or any mention up in the parish church, of a whole separate burial ground. We only knew as an urban myth kind of thing - but years later, was told about the thing by a local historian (we'd known it was some type of "plague ground", not what the pandemic was or when it was).

It would have been a hell of a walk out of the village, to get to this burial ground. There was never any sign of any headstones ever having been there although I now suspect there must have been something. In York, the cholera burial ground has individual headstones - where people could afford them. In Selby, people were just popped in an area of grass just outside the abbey graveyard, over the fence and there, there were no individual gravestones and only a rudimentary Ministry of Works style 20thc metal marker.

Drove past the village cholera field a couple days back and said to husband, that ground can't ever have been de-consecrated. So it must to this day still be consecrated ground even though to most people it's now just arable.

Even though consecrated, it must have been very upsetting for those devout pre-Victorians that their loved ones weren't buried up in the churchyard with everyone else they'd known and loved and all their ancestors. Must have been a hell of a trek out there to leave flowers, too. All long forgotten.

The cholera ground in York is outside the city walls, those random gravestones opposite the train station.

To stay on topic, re. "magick", the second a "k" is involved I get sceptical.

 

[catseye]

My old schoolfriend's dad was the farmer who owned what had been an 1830s' cholera burial ground. A good two or more miles out of the village and nowhere close to the parish church - to the point it was actually in the neighbouring parish. It just looked like a regular arable field. But it had a drystone wall - not uncommon generally round there but uncommon in that village, to the point it was the only field with a wall.

He knocked down a fair bit of it to get his machinery in, probably in the 1970s so it was intact for much of its length then had a wrecked bit. He died and the field was sold.

The last time I saw it, the drystone wall was entirely gone.

Mate told me her dad grew wheat for a very well known brand of wheat cereal, there. I never ate it again.

There was never a plaque or anything, or any mention up in the parish church, of a whole separate burial ground. We only knew as an urban myth kind of thing - but years later, was told about the thing by a local historian (we'd known it was some type of "plague ground", not what the pandemic was or when it was).

It would have been a hell of a walk out of the village, to get to this burial ground. There was never any sign of any headstones ever having been there although I now suspect there must have been something. In York, the cholera burial ground has individual headstones - where people could afford them. In Selby, people were just popped in an area of grass just outside the abbey graveyard, over the fence and there, there were no individual gravestones and only a rudimentary Ministry of Works style 20thc metal marker.

Drove past the village cholera field a couple days back and said to husband, that ground can't ever have been de-consecrated. So it must to this day still be consecrated ground even though to most people it's now just arable.

Even though consecrated, it must have been very upsetting for those devout pre-Victorians that their loved ones weren't buried up in the churchyard with everyone else they'd known and loved and all their ancestors. Must have been a hell of a trek out there to leave flowers, too. All long forgotten.

The cholera ground in York is outside the city walls, those random gravestones opposite the train station.

To stay on topic, re. "magick", the second a "k" is involved I get sceptical.

Just popping in and equally off topic to mention Exeter's Bury Meadow. I grew up thinking it was called 'Berry Meadow' as there were blackberries growing in the hedge that surrounded it, but no, it was the old cholera burial ground. Again, well outside the walls of the city, although the city had expanded quite a lot by the time of the cholera outbreaks, but no headstones or memorial. Just a big field into which they shovelled the bodies, some of which must have travelled a fair distance to get there.
https://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/_parks/burymeadow.php

 

[Piloton.it]

From "The Morning of the Magicians" (a classic!), by Louis Pauwels and Jacques Bergier:

In his reception address at Oxford University in 1946, Jean Cocteau
told the following story:

My friend Pobers, Professor of parapsychology at the University of
Utrecht, was sent on a mission to the West Indies to study the part
played there by telepathy, in current use among the simple people. If
they want to communicate with their husbands or sons in town, the
women speak to a tree, and the men bring back whatever they have
been asked for. One day Pobers was present at one of these occasions
and asked the peasant woman why she addressed herself to a tree.

Her reply was surprising and conducive to solving the whole modern
problem of our instincts being atrophied by the machines on which
we have come to rely. This, then, was the question: "Why do you
address yourself to a tree?" And this the answer: "Because I am poor.
If I were rich I should have the telephone."

Bottom line: it seems to work but a phone is more convenient.

 

[Delightful]

Does Magick work?

What is the test?

 

[Robbrent]

Does Magick work?

What is the test?

You will something to happen, I guess prayer works in a similar way I have had some positive outcomes from prayer (I am not a religious person by the way) but Catholic Novenas can be be very powerful if done correctly

 

[Delightful]

You will something to happen, I guess prayer works in a similar way I have had some positive outcomes from prayer (I am not a religious person by the way) but Catholic Novenas can be be very powerful if done correctly

If nothing happens, does that falsify magick/prayer?