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Dogs More Intelligent Than Cats?

I am more interested in the dog's use of 'is' in that sentence. That would imply that a dog can not only be self aware but can also understand the use of verbs. I think I may have put more faith in it if the dog had pressed 'what dog' rather than 'what dog is'. My Patterdale will attack other dogs but not herself in a mirror, and never has. Does that imply that she is 'self aware' or that she recognises that the dog in a mirror is 'not a real dog', like the dogs she sees on TV but doesn't attempt to attack?
 
The intellignece of 138 dog breeds: The Intelligence of Dogs

I'm wondering how on earth the Poodle comes second - ahead of the German Shepherd and any of the retriever breeds. My dream dog; the Springer Spanial comes a lowly 13th!

Anyway; pity the poor Afghan Hound at 138th

"Lowest Degree of Working/Obedience Intelligence
  • Understanding of new commands: 80 to 100 repetitions or more.
  • Obey first command: 25% of the time or worse."
A living, breathing embodiment of the concept that if you have beauty you don't need brains!

(Jealous? Moi?)

To be fair, I think that some breeds of dogs enjoy displaying their intelligence (and receiving the attention doing so brings). Others (and cats) just couldn't give the proverbial.
 
I am more interested in the dog's use of 'is' in that sentence. That would imply that a dog can not only be self aware but can also understand the use of verbs. I think I may have put more faith in it if the dog had pressed 'what dog' rather than 'what dog is'. My Patterdale will attack other dogs but not herself in a mirror, and never has. Does that imply that she is 'self aware' or that she recognises that the dog in a mirror is 'not a real dog', like the dogs she sees on TV but doesn't attempt to attack?
My cat seems to pal up with other blacks cats, and took a lot more notice of Salem on the latest Sabrina than he does to cats on TB normally.

He seems to have an awareness of what he is.
 
I am more interested in the dog's use of 'is' in that sentence. That would imply that a dog can not only be self aware but can also understand the use of verbs. I think I may have put more faith in it if the dog had pressed 'what dog' rather than 'what dog is'. My Patterdale will attack other dogs but not herself in a mirror, and never has. Does that imply that she is 'self aware' or that she recognises that the dog in a mirror is 'not a real dog', like the dogs she sees on TV but doesn't attempt to attack?
She may be triggered to attack by smell and noise.
 
The intellignece of 138 dog breeds: The Intelligence of Dogs

I'm wondering how on earth the Poodle comes second - ahead of the German Shepherd and any of the retriever breeds. My dream dog; the Springer Spanial comes a lowly 13th!

Anyway; pity the poor Afghan Hound at 138th

"Lowest Degree of Working/Obedience Intelligence
  • Understanding of new commands: 80 to 100 repetitions or more.
  • Obey first command: 25% of the time or worse."
A living, breathing embodiment of the concept that if you have beauty you don't need brains!

(Jealous? Moi?)

To be fair, I think that some breeds of dogs enjoy displaying their intelligence (and receiving the attention doing so brings). Others (and cats) just couldn't give the proverbial.
Cats are solitary animals whereas dogs are social creatures. The key lies therein i think.
 
She may be triggered to attack by smell and noise.
I don't know what triggers her. If I knew it would make my life more restful. She will go for certain dogs (usually bitches, any size but that are less dominant than her) and she can spot them over half a mile distance. Yet other dogs she can be perfectly fine with and play with. I think it's a terrier thing.

Her instincts can't be overridden by training though. I think this is the mark of 'intelligence' in a dog, when you can train them out of something that their instinct tells them to do. I had a Border Collie x that would avert his eyes and walk through a field of sheep staring fixedly at the hedge - we always assumed he did it so that he wouldn't ever feel tempted to chase! Working dogs tend to be the most intelligent, I guess because they HAVE to be trained not to obey instinct, and Poodles are working water dogs. Terriers are also intelligent just in a more ...errr....alternative way.
 
The intellignece of 138 dog breeds: The Intelligence of Dogs

I'm wondering how on earth the Poodle comes second - ahead of the German Shepherd and any of the retriever breeds. My dream dog; the Springer Spanial comes a lowly 13th!

Anyway; pity the poor Afghan Hound at 138th

"Lowest Degree of Working/Obedience Intelligence
  • Understanding of new commands: 80 to 100 repetitions or more.
  • Obey first command: 25% of the time or worse."
A living, breathing embodiment of the concept that if you have beauty you don't need brains!

(Jealous? Moi?)

To be fair, I think that some breeds of dogs enjoy displaying their intelligence (and receiving the attention doing so brings). Others (and cats) just couldn't give the proverbial.
Afghans have always been notoriously daft.

Surely cats and dogs direct their intelligence to different ends? So direct comparison, while it may be possible , is fairly meaningless.

I have lived with both cats and dogs. Much prefer dogs. I agree with the general statement that cats don't have a huge interest in humans except as food suppliers and sources of warmth. There are exceptions, obs. And probably exceptional owners.
 
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Of the breeds on the list I've only had two genuine pedigree examples - well, three actual dogs.

Welsh Terrier x 2 - one US bred, one UK bred. Both clever. The UK one, Stanley, the Dog with the Broken Paw - just about still with us - is the brighter of the two.. Remarkable thing abut the US one - when brought back to the UK it instinctively knew how to herd sheep. Full tale available if requested.

Miniature Schnauzer. Dumb as mince. Used to eat shit. Very loyal and brave though. Had to be hauled out of fights by the scruff because was like what used to be known in Cockney as a bottle covey - when the others were having a friendly scrap over a bone he'd always see red.

Also Lurcher (unknown breeding) Even dumber than the schnauzer. Acquired because useless for hunting - just used to wander off. Exercised itself by racing round and round in circuits of our field until exhausted. Was demonstrably dumber than the schnauzer (Samuel Kenneth Schnauzer) because the Schnauzer worked out he could sort of keep up by running in a straight line across the smallest axis of the field.

Most Amazing Cochise Family Dog. Unknown breed - either a cross between a poodle and a lurcher or (as identified by third parties) a Bouvier des Flandres. Name of Eric. Legend. Acquired as stray. Had created own nest and was living off birds and the like. We know this because while my wife was distracted by some animal rights person going on about circuses he disappeared into the hedge and came out chewing a bird. Adapted to the US from Essex, never got killed, used to go off for miles and miles invisibly (usefully he was a blended in sort of grey) Ditto adapted to Wales on return. Could write a book about him. Well, about all of them really.
 
Cats are solitary animals whereas dogs are social creatures. The key lies therein i think.
I think you are right. Define 'intelligence'... It's apples and oranges here. Cats' intelligence is used to keep themselves alive. They can problem solve in order to eat, whereas dogs will do things to please their person. They are both intelligent, just in different ways.
 
I think you are right. Define 'intelligence'... It's apples and oranges here. Cats' intelligence is used to keep themselves alive. They can problem solve in order to eat, whereas dogs will do things to please their person. They are both intelligent, just in different ways.
It's what we found so remarkable about Eric (the MACFD from above) . Unlike most dogs having been abandoned by previous owners he didn't scavenge - he had set himself up a base or lair in a nearby copse and hunted. There was a bit of a wrangle over him with the authorities and he got out and back to his lair which is how we found it.
 
It's swings and roundabouts, isn't it?

Dogs and cats certainly have totally different kinds of intelligence, and it varies so much between individuals, especially between breeds of dog.

My last dog, Jack, a retired racing greyhound, was as thick as two short planks, way more stupid than any cat I've ever met. Jack lived with us for two and a half years before he worked out he could push an ajar door open, then promptly tried to do it from the wrong side, and shut his own head in the door! He also failed to realise he could back himself out and just stood there crying until I went and saved him. We tried a doggy I.Q test with him once, where you drape a tea towel over their face and see how long it takes them to get it off. My mum's collie took about half a second. Jack just wandered about crashing into things until we took pity on him and took it off ourselves. Sighthounds are notoriously dim, bless 'em. Lovely natured dogs though, I highly recommend them!

The dog I had before Jack was a German Shepherd called Freya, and the contrast couldn't have been bigger, but I'm sure I've listed her many achievements on here before, so I won't repeat myself :)

Unlike Jack, my current cat, Snow, could open all the doors in the house by the time he was six months old; he had no trouble learning to jump up at the handles to push them down, then pulling the door towards himself with his paw.
 
Cats are solitary animals whereas dogs are social creatures. The key lies therein i think.

Yeah but that's a bit of a myth when you factor in Domesticated cat colonies that have major hierarchical queens looking after multiple kitten litters. It's a rubbish statement really.

Way more complex than dogs but very few people are interested in studying it.


Cats are predators, solitary, and therefore more stupid than dogs - which is nonsense for anyone who has have lived with both and some of us have witnessed very complex semi-feral cat societies.

But they are a plague and no one wants to study ferals or cats anyway. Everywhere cats are now a menace.

The bottom line in my opinion is that dogs get more attention than cats but cats are brighter doing their own thing. But cats can form very healthy colonies that shame most dog colonies in survival.
 
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Yeah but that's a bit of a myth when you factor in Domesticated cat colonies that have major hierarchical queens looking after multiple kitten litters. It's a rubbish statement really.

Way more complex than dogs but very few people are interested in studying it.


Cats are predators, solitary, and therefore more stupid than dogs - which is nonsense for anyone who has have lived with both and some of us have witnessed very complex semi-feral cat societies.

But they are a plague and no one wants to study ferals or cats anyway. Everywhere cats are now a menace.

The bottom line in my opinion is that dogs get more attention than cats but cats are brighter doing their own thing. But cats can form very healthy colonies that shame most dog colonies in survival.
That's ever so slightly paranoid.

Cats are not 'more stupid' than dogs. They have different priorities. And they are most certainly not colonies or pack animals. As you said, they are solitary predators. There may be a hierarchy among multiple predators on the same premises - been there - but unlike dogs there is no sense of acting as a team.

I recall coming down to the kitchen one night when we had lots of cats. They had caught a mouse. They didn't kill it - they kept releasing it across the kitchen and seeing who could jump on it the fastest. Is this bad? I don't think so. They are just being what they are.

I don't dislike cats. But - in general - they care for nothing but their own survival. Nowt wrong with that.
 
We tried a doggy I.Q test with him once, where you drape a tea towel over their face and see how long it takes them to get it off. My mum's collie took about half a second. Jack just wandered about crashing into things until we took pity on him and took it off ourselves. Sighthounds are notoriously dim, bless 'em. Lovely natured dogs though, I highly recommend them!

Funny you should mention that. I recall seeing an item on television a number of years ago about a veterinarian who tried the tea towel test on various breeds of dog. The test was filmed in a TV studio and the programme included footage of the vet covering the heads of dogs of various breeds. Most of the dogs shook off the tea towel in no more than a few seconds. When the vet placed the towel on the head of the Afghan hound, however, the dog didn't react at all. The vet and the camera crew erupted in fits of laughter while the dog just sat still.

Some time later it was reported that after the programme aired the vet received stacks of hate mail from the outraged owners of Afghan hounds. (This was before the era of social media). Evidently they didn't take kindly to the suggestion that their canine companions were not overly intelligent. I've only ever known one Afghan hound and I must admit that she wasn't the sharpest tool in the proverbial shed. She had a lovely disposition, though.
 
Nowt wrong with that.

That's ever so slightly paranoid.

Cats are not 'more stupid' than dogs. They have different priorities. And they are most certainly not colonies or pack animals. As you said, they are solitary predators. There may be a hierarchy among multiple predators on the same premises - been there - but unlike dogs there is no sense of acting as a team.

I recall coming down to the kitchen one night when we had lots of cats. They had caught a mouse. They didn't kill it - they kept releasing it across the kitchen and seeing who could jump on it the fastest. Is this bad? I don't think so. They are just being what they are.

I don't dislike cats. But - in general - they care for nothing but their own survival. Nowt wrong with that.

You've not managed to make an argument against the ability of cats to form high-functioning colonies which a fair few people suggest cats are incapable of.

So I don't know what your point is.

Most of the current "science" is intelligence is based on the ability to work as a group.

Most people dismiss domestic cats as being incapable of this - they aren't and form very complex socities.
 
You've not managed to make an argument against the ability of cats to form high-functioning colonies which a fair few people suggest cats are incapable of.

So I don't know what your point is.
Didn't intend to just haven't seen it despite at some times living with lots of cats. They are more like politicians always trying to be one up on all the surrounding 'honourable members'.

Cats are what they are - it doesn't bother me. But I have seen no evidence of the colonies you suggest, even though we at times had upwards of 20 cats.
 
Didn't intend to just haven't seen it despite at some times living with lots of cats. They are more like politicians always trying to be one up on all the surrounding 'honourable members'.

Cats are what they are - it doesn't bother me. But I have seen no evidence of the colonies you suggest, even though we at times had upwards of 20 cats.

Well, I've seen enough and there is enough evidence to suggest mothers and kittens often band together raising each other young. Going out to forage and those that are left suckingly each others kittens.

I know of one local city colony that does this.
 
Most people dismiss domestic cats as being incapable of this - they aren't and form very complex societies.
Sorry, didn't notice that point. I agree.

Maybe we are not using the word 'colony' in the same way.

Our numerous cats certainly had some sort of hierarchy and had evolved ways of living together without fighting , over food for example.

Although frankly that co-existence mostly seemed to be achieved by ignoring each others' presence unless they were siblings. Eric the Dog on the other hand regarded them all as pack and would protect the kittens.
 
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When the vet placed the towel on the head of the Afghan hound, however, the dog didn't react at all. The vet and the camera crew erupted in fits of laughter while the dog just sat still.

My Friend used to keep Afghan hounds and she told me the childrens series called `What a Mess` was entirely factual
 
Depends really, I think they are both intelligent in their own ways, I have a lovely chilled male cat, adorable lil thing, and another psychotic bugger who is adorable one minute and a lil off her head another, I do not trust her much, but I love her because of her being different and I love him because he is so chilled, I have never had any other animal, but I do love dogs as well, actually I love all animals no matter what their intelligence.
 
My Friend used to keep Afghan hounds and she told me the childrens series called `What a Mess` was entirely factual
I well remember my friend having an Afghan over 40 years ago. The dog was the blondest bimboest thing you could ever imagine, but she was utterly gorgeous. Used to love being draped round my mates shoulders to be carried when the ground was wet or muddy. I can picture her to this day.
 
I think you are right. Define 'intelligence'... It's apples and oranges here. Cats' intelligence is used to keep themselves alive. They can problem solve in order to eat, whereas dogs will do things to please their person. They are both intelligent, just in different ways.
Someone I knew had 2 small dogs and 4 cats at the same time. They all did everything together, even shared the same large bed. One cat was a bit lame and couldn't get about as well as the others, although we all suspected that she put it on a bit. At meal times one dog somehow learned to carry a small bowl of food to her in the bed. Who was the most intelligent the cat or the dog? All 4 cats lived to well over 20 years old, and the dogs had a long life so their little colony clearly suited them.
 
Hmm id say cats were more intellegent for not letting forces put their lives at risk by being trained to do dangerous jobs just for a treat :p
In that case. I could choose to sit back, not do any studying or thinking and be the most intelligent person on the planet.
 
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