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Double-Dentition (Manticores?)

Sertile

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Mar 8, 2003
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Maybe I should have posted this on the Earth Mysteries board, since all of these guys have been dug up, but since I consider it more of a biological problem I'm sticking it here.

What I'm talking about here are the skeletons that keep turning up (or used to, or supposedly used to) with two rows of teeth: double dentition. I'm sure most, if not all, of the people on this site have heard of this. I'm not going to go in depth on the history of the subject, as there are plenty of websites that would do a better job (just beware the fanatical ones).

Anyway, I've got a two-part question here: One, what do you people make of this phenomenon? Assuming there's anything to it, of course. Stories of giants with double-rows of teeth seem to have been so popular during the 1800's that they could almost be considered a folklore motif. My personal feelings are that the reported 12-footers were likely exaggerations, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be at least some truth to the matter. Where did the whole idea get started?

Part two: I'd taken to referring to these people as "manticores" for lack of a better term, as sort of a pet-name, due to the manticore's having two sets of teeth. However, the more I think about it the more similarities I see... The manticore was a creature from medieval mythology that was like a cross between a lion and a man, only having double rows of teeth. These "giants" are not only reported to possess double-dentition, but are sometimes described as having skulls with canine or feline-type features, large, paw-like hands and feet with 6-fingers and toes, and sometimes even extra "knobs" or "buttons" at the base of the spine, as if there were once a tail attached there.

I might be going out on a limb here, and it's my policy never to believe my own theories, but could the legend of the manticore be based on real-life encounters with these humanoid creatures?
 
Sertile said:
Maybe I should have posted this on the Earth Mysteries board, since all of these guys have been dug up, but since I consider it more of a biological problem I'm sticking it here.

What I'm talking about here are the skeletons that keep turning up (or used to, or supposedly used to) with two rows of teeth: double dentition. I'm sure most, if not all, of the people on this site have heard of this. I'm not going to go in depth on the history of the subject, as there are plenty of websites that would do a better job (just beware the fanatical ones).

Better throw us some links to the good ones then ;)

I was under the impression that Monsieur Mange Tout (the French man who eat a plane and eats glass and metal, etc. - see the eating metal and glass thread) had double dentition.

I'm unsure what the biological basis of this would be but they have thoroughly X rayed and investigated him over the years so.......

Emps
 
Re: Re: Double-Dentition (Manticores?)

Emperor said:
Better throw us some links to the good ones then ;)

I was under the impression that Monsieur Mange Tout (the French man who eat a plane and eats glass and metal, etc. - see the eating metal and glass thread) had double dentition.

I'm unsure what the biological basis of this would be but they have thoroughly X rayed and investigated him over the years so.......

Emps

Maybe being picky and OT, but I used to make the error of assuming things had some biological purpose if they existed at all. What's the biological purpose of gene-linked still births or Tay-Sachs?

Back to topic, I thought Manticores were specifically Southeast Asian. Where is this physical data coming from?
 
I remember seeing an article about a kid that had two rows of teeth. He seemed fairly normal otherwise.

Though I can't remember ever hearing about those people you mentioned have been dug up, so do give us some links.
 
I remember seeing an article about a kid that had two rows of teeth. He seemed fairly normal otherwise.

Yes. Also, if you check out the book, Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine by George Gould and Walter Pyle, you'll see that double (or even triple) dentition, while occuring rarely, do nevertheless occur in otherwise "normal" men and women, boys and girls (p. 244).

Polterdog.
 
I don't think it is all that uncommon for a new tooth to be growing out next to a milktooth, rather than pushing it out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Double-Dentition (Manticores?)

Vitrius said:
Maybe being picky and OT, but I used to make the error of assuming things had some biological purpose if they existed at all. What's the biological purpose of gene-linked still births or Tay-Sachs?

I wasn' lookin for a purpose I was looking for a basis - having two ows of teeh is a pretty impressive mutation (if possibly not too helpful - does one's food need chewing twice as well? Pos. it rduces flatluence which is a minus not a plus surely!!) I was wondeirng if they'd find out how it happens -not why ;)

Emps
 
As you say, there are many reports from the USA in the 19th century of giants remains with double rows of teeth and often with red hair.These are usually mentioned along with native legends about cannibal giants that used to live in the area and attack their ancestors.
Of the allegedly hundreds of skeletons found are there any on display anywhere ?
 
One of the girls in my eldest's class at school several years ago had 2 rows of teeth at the bottom. The adult teeth grew in behind the milk teeth. Apparently the dentist told them it was nothing to worry about, it wasn't that uncommon and the milk teeth would fall out when they were ready to.
 
i had to have an operation as a kid to take out my milk teeth as they wouldn't budge for the new ones.
 
I have seen a loony-apocalyptic-American-Christian website claiming that the Biblical Nephilim (fallen angel/human hybrids according to some vertsions of the Bible, in more modern versions usually translated as "giants"... getting rid of them was one of the reasons for Noah's flood, but more were probably created afterwards since Goliath was supposed to be one) could be recognised by their double row of teeth, and citing those supposed US skeleton reports as evidence. No idea if it's actually possible tho (double dentition i mean, rather than angel/human hybrids)... :eek:
 
Yeah, that's the kind of site I was talking about. In fact, there are a lot like that, but they all regurgitate the same "information." If you've read enough of the earth mysteries forbidden archaeology-type literature you'll see a monstrous (no pun itended) amount of these stories coming out of the 1800's, usually unearthed within Indian mounds or from caves and canyons. Red hair and knobby foreheads are also common traits, along with the double row of teeth (and of course giantism).

By all counts there should be hundreds of these skeletons floating around, but like most things they managed to vanish, or were simply lost. That's assuming they ever existed in the first place, of course. Usually the stories end with the bodies being shipped off to some museum, often the Smithsonian, where they're never seen or heard of again.

These aren't milk-teeth we're talking about and they're not just deformities, either. If these stories are true then we're talking about a whole race of "humans" with two sets of teeth (or four, depending on how you look at it). The old reports were quite consistent, and if they are to be believed then it's impossible to just dismiss these people as being occasional freaks of nature. That's the problem of the thing, I suppose.

To answer an earlier question, I meant that manticores existed in the European pantheon of monsters, not that it was a monster actually said to dwell in Europe. I believe it's home was said to be northern India, and these skeletons were all from New World sites, but if they WERE indeed human beings then there was nothing preventing them from travel. Nor was there anything preventing Europeans from coming to America, for that matter...
 
Here's some links, if anyone's interested. I found one on the Nephilim that's probably the same site mentioned earlier, along with a decent overview of giants on Mysterious World and a couple that don't look so hot.

http://members.aol.com/rckrol308/history.htm
http://www.mysteriousworld.com/Journal/2003/Summer/Giants/
http://www.masonwinfield.com/ArchiveFiles/September 2002/Giant Skeletons and Then Some.htm
http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/N.Am/hidden.proofs.giant.race.html

I'm going to be gone for a week, but that should cover me.
 
what a row

lots of animals have more than one row of teeth...sharks, for instance
 
I recently read A Pirate of Exquisite Mind by Diana Preston which is about a 17th century Buccaneer and Scientist who explored/robbed the world and there is a tantalisingly brief reference in it to him being presented at one point with a boy who displayed double dentition. There was no reference to the boys height.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pirate-Exqu...0144&sr=8-1&keywords=pirate+of+exquisite+mind

Weird stuff seems to have been taken much more for granted in the olden days.
 
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